T master Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 9:16 AM, Tiberius said: Do you think it's wrong for schools to push Evolution on children even if parents thinks its wrong? To push it yes that is wrong if you offer it in a course in school as a alternative & as a choice if they decide to take the course that's their choice it's not pushed . It's the parents decision on how THEIR children are raised & what they learn not the gov't PERIOD !!!! 1
HomeskillitMoorman Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 On 6/2/2023 at 7:47 AM, BillsFanNC said: The Pride flag is not some kind of slight to the American flag, that's the strawman you are building on your own. The Pride flag was also created back in the 70's when Americans who were gay were not allowed to get married. I love our country, but you do understand that like every other country, we haven't gotten everything correct, right? That flag has not always represented the same freedom for all of our people. But I still don't see it as a slight or anti-American from most Pride-related groups. I'm sure you can find a couple, those extremists exist as they do for literally any group of people. I just don't make it a habit of passing judgement on those groups for the small number of extremists that exist within them. The other thing is, which I'm sure you're aware of because you do the same thing...the Gays Against Groomers group have a political agenda. Their founders are far right Ultra Maga QAnon-related whackjobs. It's not some grassroots morality-driven group of people that are purely after "groomers" to save the children. Do I agree we should be against that extreme minority that actually wants to sexualize or groom children? Absolutely. But that is not this group's #1 agenda. And you're no different. If I went back into the history of your posts or your small handful of buddies that overrun this section with retweets from far right Conservative media...I'm sure we'd find either very little or nothing at all about the sexualization of children that happens from the other side. I'm betting when news broke out about almost 700 kids that were sexually abused by Catholic priests in Baltimore a few months ago, either very little or most likely nothing at all was brought up by you or those people here. If news broke that 700 kids were influenced to have some kind of trans surgery...are you denying that there would be probably multiple threads, hundreds of posts about that here from the same people like yourself who are obsessed with LGBTQ+? Why is that? Why is it that the transgressions of the side of the Conservative/Christian/Catholic/religious gets a blind eye? Because there is ZERO part of you that actually cares about the kids whom all of this horrible stuff happens to. This is 100% political for you. And that's so incredibly sad. This is why I will never choose a side of Democrat or Republican. There's this price that people like you seem to pay of selling your soul to one side that is so hard to fathom. Conservatives love to complain that this is what liberal media does...and they are actually right about that...but they and people like you do the SAME. EXACT. THING. On 6/5/2023 at 9:07 AM, T master said: True but not to push those beliefs on others that don't believe the same . My wife has a day care & some of the curriculum plus the rules the state has & try to push they try to give the youngest of children is to change the way of thinking basically indoctrinating them as young as 2 to change the mind set that's just wrong . Didn't Hitler & some others do that ?? I think there have been many that tried that in history to create a new race of people. If the same kind of push was put behind the American flag & the beliefs upon its inception the country & it's people would be in a lot better place . I agree with that...but don't religious people like Christians do the same thing with indoctrinating their kids as young as 2 years old? I do agree the country would be in a much better place if kids weren't being groomed and were taught the facts about everything across the board instead of ideologies and fairytales. 2
HomeskillitMoorman Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Pokebball said: Evolution is OK. But I'm gonna hold the line at algebra The first amendment shouldn't be used to allow teachers to discuss any dang thing they want, right? They are our employees. We hire them to teach our children. We determine what they teach our children. A lot of this is starting in the classroom and that is not the proper place for it. I'm OK with this as long as it is consistent across the board. One of my issues is the side that is saying this right now is the side that for so long and many STILL do are pushing for Christianity/Bible studies into curriculums. It's hypocritical. If you're saying lets keep all of these ideologies out of the school...I'm all for that. 1 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So the big bad bullies are once again walking all over the innocent victims of the social justice religion? Boo, hoo. More like fighting fire with fire. That appears to frustrate you. It doesn't frustrate us. It buttresses our resolve. We know we can win. You think the same... 1 1
Pokebball Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 13 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: I'm OK with this as long as it is consistent across the board. One of my issues is the side that is saying this right now is the side that for so long and many STILL do are pushing for Christianity/Bible studies into curriculums. It's hypocritical. If you're saying lets keep all of these ideologies out of the school...I'm all for that. Yeah, kinda what I'm saying. There are exceptions, of course. CRT began at the collegiate level originally. Philosophy has it's place and I'd argue includes religious studies. But yeah, let's "ban" some of these books in elementary and middle schools. You make sure they get added to the list! 1
HomeskillitMoorman Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 26 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Yeah, kinda what I'm saying. There are exceptions, of course. CRT began at the collegiate level originally. Philosophy has it's place and I'd argue includes religious studies. But yeah, let's "ban" some of these books in elementary and middle schools. You make sure they get added to the list! Sure, I agree about philosophy and more broad religious studies. I'm fine with learning about religions and having objective, open and honest discussions about them. It's the indoctrination part I'm against. Just like I think it's totally fine to learn about how people who were homosexual for the longest time here were not treated very well and weren't given the same rights as the rest of us, including their own religious freedoms. That's also different from indoctrination. Maybe I'm too optimistic...but I do think the majority of people would probably agree on this stuff if they were able to shut out the extremists on both ends that pushes them to throw stones at each other instead of making some really simple beneficial compromises.
Pokebball Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: Sure, I agree about philosophy and more broad religious studies. I'm fine with learning about religions and having objective, open and honest discussions about them. It's the indoctrination part I'm against. Just like I think it's totally fine to learn about how people who were homosexual for the longest time here were not treated very well and weren't given the same rights as the rest of us, including their own religious freedoms. That's also different from indoctrination. Maybe I'm too optimistic...but I do think the majority of people would probably agree on this stuff if they were able to shut out the extremists on both ends that pushes them to throw stones at each other instead of making some really simple beneficial compromises. Open and honest discussions? That seems like a hill too big to take! It's certainly too big in elementary and middle schools. At that level it's instruction, not discussion. I think we'd need to be pretty careful even in high school. I've taken college level courses where open and honest discussion has been limited, if not allowed. The teachers / professors have to be some special kinda leader to provide that sort of environment for his/her students. You and I can name those that did. But they're the exception rather than the rule. 2
HomeskillitMoorman Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Open and honest discussions? That seems like a hill too big to take! It's certainly too big in elementary and middle schools. At that level it's instruction, not discussion. I think we'd need to be pretty careful even in high school. I've taken college level courses where open and honest discussion has been limited, if not allowed. The teachers / professors have to be some special kinda leader to provide that sort of environment for his/her students. You and I can name those that did. But they're the exception rather than the rule. Well yeah I didn't mean having those types of studies/discussions for elementary/middle school. Possibly upper High School like Juniors or Seniors and then college? I agree with you on that, we'd have to be careful as far as that goes because it can certainly lead into instruction. 1 1
BillsFanNC Posted June 6, 2023 Author Posted June 6, 2023 2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: The Pride flag is not some kind of slight to the American flag, that's the strawman you are building on your own. The Pride flag was also created back in the 70's when Americans who were gay were not allowed to get married. I love our country, but you do understand that like every other country, we haven't gotten everything correct, right? That flag has not always represented the same freedom for all of our people. But I still don't see it as a slight or anti-American from most Pride-related groups. I'm sure you can find a couple, those extremists exist as they do for literally any group of people. I just don't make it a habit of passing judgement on those groups for the small number of extremists that exist within them. The other thing is, which I'm sure you're aware of because you do the same thing...the Gays Against Groomers group have a political agenda. Their founders are far right Ultra Maga QAnon-related whackjobs. It's not some grassroots morality-driven group of people that are purely after "groomers" to save the children. Do I agree we should be against that extreme minority that actually wants to sexualize or groom children? Absolutely. But that is not this group's #1 agenda. And you're no different. If I went back into the history of your posts or your small handful of buddies that overrun this section with retweets from far right Conservative media...I'm sure we'd find either very little or nothing at all about the sexualization of children that happens from the other side. I'm betting when news broke out about almost 700 kids that were sexually abused by Catholic priests in Baltimore a few months ago, either very little or most likely nothing at all was brought up by you or those people here. If news broke that 700 kids were influenced to have some kind of trans surgery...are you denying that there would be probably multiple threads, hundreds of posts about that here from the same people like yourself who are obsessed with LGBTQ+? Why is that? Why is it that the transgressions of the side of the Conservative/Christian/Catholic/religious gets a blind eye? Because there is ZERO part of you that actually cares about the kids whom all of this horrible stuff happens to. This is 100% political for you. And that's so incredibly sad. This is why I will never choose a side of Democrat or Republican. There's this price that people like you seem to pay of selling your soul to one side that is so hard to fathom. Conservatives love to complain that this is what liberal media does...and they are actually right about that...but they and people like you do the SAME. EXACT. THING. I agree with that...but don't religious people like Christians do the same thing with indoctrinating their kids as young as 2 years old? I do agree the country would be in a much better place if kids weren't being groomed and were taught the facts about everything across the board instead of ideologies and fairytales. You seem to know the motivations of posters with remarkable certainty. Despite not knowing anything at all. I don't want kids sexualized by anyone. Ever. No excuses. No hand waving but, but look over here rationalizing. Never. By anyone. It may be a small minority of the LBGTQ community who overtly want to sexualize children, but the remainder of the community conveniently looks the other way. Just like the Catholic church. So wake me up when a small sect of catholics, or any group, blatantly out in the open promote sexualizing children while the rest look the other way. Until then you have no argument. 1 2
SectionC3 Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: You seem to know the motivations of posters with remarkable certainty. Despite not knowing anything at all. I don't want kids sexualized by anyone. Ever. No excuses. No hand waving but, but look over here rationalizing. Never. By anyone. It may be a small minority of the LBGTQ community who overtly want to sexualize children, but the remainder of the community conveniently looks the other way. Just like the Catholic church. So wake me up when a small sect of catholics, or any group, blatantly out in the open promote sexualizing children while the rest look the other way. Until then you have no argument. Speaking of looking the other way, what is your homie Jim Jordan up to these days? In all seriousness, I cannot understand why people are so offended by a rainbow flag. Let people live their lives in peace. There’s much ridiculous concern in the party of individual liberty about what others are doing. 1
HomeskillitMoorman Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: You seem to know the motivations of posters with remarkable certainty. Despite not knowing anything at all. I don't want kids sexualized by anyone. Ever. No excuses. No hand waving but, but look over here rationalizing. Never. By anyone. It may be a small minority of the LBGTQ community who overtly want to sexualize children, but the remainder of the community conveniently looks the other way. Just like the Catholic church. So wake me up when a small sect of catholics, or any group, blatantly out in the open promote sexualizing children while the rest look the other way. Until then you have no argument. The Catholic Church LITERALLY protects and has Priests on income to this day that they know for a FACT have sexually abused children...yet how many Catholics still attend those churches and still pronounce themselves as Catholic? It's no different whatsoever. I'm actually consistent, I will call out both sides. You have selective outrage that's fueled by politics because you are on your knees for one side. Would you even debate that? If we went through your history, what would the overwhelming pattern look like of the people and media sources that you post? My point isn't even that people that are simply Catholic are responsible or should wear the burden of what happened to those kids, but I also feel the same way about people who are just gay or trans and have nothing to do with sexualizing children and whom the Pride flag means something completely different. The origins of the Pride flag were not what you are describing so it's not even like that's some kind of irrational take. I wouldn't judge everyone who wears a gothic Catholic cross the way you probably would anyone who wears a Pride flag patch or whatever it is. Edited June 6, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman
BillStime Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 On 6/2/2023 at 8:47 AM, BillsFanNC said: Fn idiots These commies desire to erase GLBTQ will backfire in their faces. Americans are tired of the BS.
T master Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 21 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: The Pride flag is not some kind of slight to the American flag, that's the strawman you are building on your own. The Pride flag was also created back in the 70's when Americans who were gay were not allowed to get married. I love our country, but you do understand that like every other country, we haven't gotten everything correct, right? That flag has not always represented the same freedom for all of our people. But I still don't see it as a slight or anti-American from most Pride-related groups. I'm sure you can find a couple, those extremists exist as they do for literally any group of people. I just don't make it a habit of passing judgement on those groups for the small number of extremists that exist within them. The other thing is, which I'm sure you're aware of because you do the same thing...the Gays Against Groomers group have a political agenda. Their founders are far right Ultra Maga QAnon-related whackjobs. It's not some grassroots morality-driven group of people that are purely after "groomers" to save the children. Do I agree we should be against that extreme minority that actually wants to sexualize or groom children? Absolutely. But that is not this group's #1 agenda. And you're no different. If I went back into the history of your posts or your small handful of buddies that overrun this section with retweets from far right Conservative media...I'm sure we'd find either very little or nothing at all about the sexualization of children that happens from the other side. I'm betting when news broke out about almost 700 kids that were sexually abused by Catholic priests in Baltimore a few months ago, either very little or most likely nothing at all was brought up by you or those people here. If news broke that 700 kids were influenced to have some kind of trans surgery...are you denying that there would be probably multiple threads, hundreds of posts about that here from the same people like yourself who are obsessed with LGBTQ+? Why is that? Why is it that the transgressions of the side of the Conservative/Christian/Catholic/religious gets a blind eye? Because there is ZERO part of you that actually cares about the kids whom all of this horrible stuff happens to. This is 100% political for you. And that's so incredibly sad. This is why I will never choose a side of Democrat or Republican. There's this price that people like you seem to pay of selling your soul to one side that is so hard to fathom. Conservatives love to complain that this is what liberal media does...and they are actually right about that...but they and people like you do the SAME. EXACT. THING. I agree with that...but don't religious people like Christians do the same thing with indoctrinating their kids as young as 2 years old? I do agree the country would be in a much better place if kids weren't being groomed and were taught the facts about everything across the board instead of ideologies and fairytales. There is indoctrinating kids to believe some choices that people make in life are the norm when if looking at the way things were intended are other than the norm & are trying to be made more normal due to in some cases personal choices . No matter your opinion or belief as far as religion goes weather it be believed in evolution or in God as our creator (which is my personal choice) the human race & all other animals were created as male & female to procreate to keep the race what ever it may be going . Some have different thoughts on love & their personal sexual preferences which hay if it makes you happy go for it but if i don't believe that way don't push it on me & mine . What ever floats your boat ... I have always said that you can take a metric nut & put it on a standard bolt with enough force to make it work to hold for a while but that isn't the way it was intended but you can make the decision to use it that way if you see fit . I use that analogy with personal preference . We are made male & female for a reason if others choose to go a different direction other than the intended one that's fine but that's not it's original intention & i feel that could be in some ways why a lot of people don''t like the bible & religion because it has very basic rules for life that some do not agree with so if you do away with it you can live by your own rules or make them up as you go . I'm not saying what if any of what i have written is right wrong or indifferent but i'm just stating what i feel to be a fact of original intention of how things are meant to be . If i teach my child about god and the rules of the bible & they later decide that it isn't for them then that is their CHOICE & they can decide that as a adult . I know some will disagree which is okay but this is 1 person opinion . 4
HomeskillitMoorman Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, T master said: There is indoctrinating kids to believe some choices that people make in life are the norm when if looking at the way things were intended are other than the norm & are trying to be made more normal due to in some cases personal choices . No matter your opinion or belief as far as religion goes weather it be believed in evolution or in God as our creator (which is my personal choice) the human race & all other animals were created as male & female to procreate to keep the race what ever it may be going . Some have different thoughts on love & their personal sexual preferences which hay if it makes you happy go for it but if i don't believe that way don't push it on me & mine . What ever floats your boat ... I have always said that you can take a metric nut & put it on a standard bolt with enough force to make it work to hold for a while but that isn't the way it was intended but you can make the decision to use it that way if you see fit . I use that analogy with personal preference . We are made male & female for a reason if others choose to go a different direction other than the intended one that's fine but that's not it's original intention & i feel that could be in some ways why a lot of people don''t like the bible & religion because it has very basic rules for life that some do not agree with so if you do away with it you can live by your own rules or make them up as you go . I'm not saying what if any of what i have written is right wrong or indifferent but i'm just stating what i feel to be a fact of original intention of how things are meant to be . If i teach my child about god and the rules of the bible & they later decide that it isn't for them then that is their CHOICE & they can decide that as a adult . I know some will disagree which is okay but this is 1 person opinion . I appreciate the honesty and your willingness to have an in-depth discussion here. It's interesting to me because I was raised Catholic and these were some of the things that were taught to me when I was young. I'm now agnostic, open to really anything being possible but pretty much just trying to live a good life with what I consider moral values and wait for the facts, if there are any after I die...which was always a crazy thing to me that in many forms of Catholicism or Christianity just waiting for the facts to play out is a one-way ticket to eternal suffering and damnation. But to stay on topic...first it's the whole choice part. I don't remember any kind of moment in my childhood where I made some kind of choice to be heterosexual. It was just there. I imagine it's the same thing for someone who is homosexual or bisexual. Maybe you agree on that and meant choice as in what you do with that, I don't know. So lets say for a second that I agreed with you on the way God "intended" for things to be or even the universe or whatever, that either way we were created as male and female to procreate and keep the race going as you said. Acknowledging that doesn't change what gender I'm attracted to. If it was the other way around and males had to have sex with males to procreate and the same with females but I was attracted to females...acknowledging and taking in this notion about how things were intended to be wouldn't make me want to go bang dudes or be attracted to them or want a marriage with them. I would still want a female partner. That's likely how homosexuals feel. There might be many of them who would even agree with you that maybe this wasn't "meant" to happen...but it did and what are they supposed to do? To them, being with the opposite gender would be like forcing a square peg into a round hole. The original message from the non-extremists of the LGBTQ+ and Pride community was that they can offer a space to people looking for community that doesn't admonish them for this. When I was growing up, I did know kids especially in the Catholic circle that were shunned by their families for being gay and it was really confusing and painful for them because they didn't choose that, and some of them did find community in people that told them that it was OK and it wasn't their fault and they can still be proud of who they are. Have some people turned it into making it their entire identity? Yeah, and I don't like that for anything. I would say the same thing for people of any group. There are far right-wing MAGA people who have turned that into their whole identity. There's Bills fans that I think take football way too seriously and get literally get depressed about the team, they take it extremely personally because they're so ingrained with all of this. I don't think it's wrong to tell kids that it's OK to have same-sex attraction if that's what they have once they get to that age where you talk about that stuff. I'm not arguing against that certain people are talking to kids about that stuff in general at too early an age...maybe they are. But I don't think it's wrong to tell kids that are old enough or asking about this that in simple terms it is normal for someone to be homosexual if that's what their attraction is. I don't see why two same-gender people can't love each other just like a heterosexual couple. If it's about procreation...there are a lot of heterosexual couples, and it's a growing number, that simply choose not to have kids. What makes that different? I'm not for brainwashing kids on anything. I think people take it way too far with indoctrinating their kids with religion or anything else that's not rooted in the facts that we currently have, but people are free to do what they want as parents. But I do think it's hypocritical when that religious side is the one that's largely talking about indoctrination when they do the exact same thing, they just believe their side is right.
BillsFanNC Posted June 7, 2023 Author Posted June 7, 2023 21 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: The Catholic Church LITERALLY protects and has Priests on income to this day that they know for a FACT have sexually abused children...yet how many Catholics still attend those churches and still pronounce themselves as Catholic? It's no different whatsoever. I'm actually consistent, I will call out both sides. You have selective outrage that's fueled by politics because you are on your knees for one side. Would you even debate that? If we went through your history, what would the overwhelming pattern look like of the people and media sources that you post? My point isn't even that people that are simply Catholic are responsible or should wear the burden of what happened to those kids, but I also feel the same way about people who are just gay or trans and have nothing to do with sexualizing children and whom the Pride flag means something completely different. The origins of the Pride flag were not what you are describing so it's not even like that's some kind of irrational take. I wouldn't judge everyone who wears a gothic Catholic cross the way you probably would anyone who wears a Pride flag patch or whatever it is. I don't judge all those who wear the pride flag. In fact I was at the Nats game last night for pride night and got the screech pride bobblehead that I plan to give to one of my gay friends. What I do want to see is loud and stern condemnation by veteran leaders in the LGBTQ community of the sexualizing of children. Such loud and consistent condemnation such as this insanity stops immediately. That's it. I'm not defending the Catholic church and how they have handled the priest scandals. You are saying that I'm defending it in an attempt to bolster a false equivalence. Again, when you can point to receipts with video evidence of representatives of the catholic church reading books with sexual content to 1st graders or on the record promoting that kids under 18 undergo irreversible sex change "affirming care" then and only then can you reasonably argue that there's any equivalence here between the LGBTQ religion and the church. 2 1
BillStime Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: LGBTQ community of the sexualizing of children Oh stfu - where is your outrage in this thread? 10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Such loud and consistent condemnation such as this insanity stops immediately. That's it. So that LGTBQ are erased - got it homophobe 11 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Again, when you can point to receipts with video evidence of representatives of the catholic church reading books with sexual content to 1st graders or on the record promoting that kids under 18 undergo irreversible sex change "affirming care" then and only then can you reasonably argue that there's any equivalence here between the LGBTQ religion and the church. You are the definition of a homophobe and snowflake. Your keepers love you 1
Tommy Callahan Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hope this raging person is not around a weapon or small animals. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 2
BillStime Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 Just now, Chris farley said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hope this raging person is not around a weapon or small animals. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Every accusation is a confession.
BillsFanNC Posted June 7, 2023 Author Posted June 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chris farley said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hope this raging person is not around a weapon or small animals. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thank you for not quoting her. 1
TSOL Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 Out of one side of their mouths they say "trust the science" out of the other side of their mouths they refute biology. You can't argue with these people. You can't trust these people. 1
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