Beck Water Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Agreed. Beane said that the Bills drafted Kincaid because they needed someone to work the middle of the field. He added that Crowder was supposed to do that job last year but got hurt. Reading between the lines, it seemed to me he was saying McKenzie couldn't effectively work the middle as the slot guy. Supports what folz said. I think there's a bit of revisionist history or at least edited history by Beane there. They clearly expected McKenzie and Crowder to compete for snaps in the slot last season. Going into the season Beane talked as though McKenzie had earned a shot at the slot role. McKenzie said he was open against zone and Josh wouldn't throw to him. I think that's true. At least in part, I think that's because Josh simply didn't trust McKenzie to 1) read the defense and run the route option Josh expected him to run as Josh expected him to run it - he could be open, but if he's open doing something different than Josh expects, as Beasley said "there will be a lot of interceptions" so Josh wouldn't take that risk 2) run the routes with the proper shape and timing 3) make it "his ball or no one's ball", especially if the throw were a bit off-target. McKenzie's biggest flaw as a receiver IMO was his persistent tendency to body-catch. As we saw in Miami with Josh's interception off Beasley, it's dangerous to try to body-catch in traffic; if the ball is deflected, it can very well be picked. I also had the impression that he had a bit of the "mule trained with loving kindness" about him, in that it took A Lot to get him to listen to feed back and make changes. 5 minutes ago, NewEra said: Idk why, but he’s too dam small and his arms to too dam short to be a good target. nice guy though Mmm, that would be why Beane paid more money to Deonte Harty, who is like an inch shorter and has slightly shorter arms? Because he's too damned short to be a good target? Edited June 2, 2023 by Beck Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I think there's a bit of revisionist history or at least edited history by Beane there. They clearly expected McKenzie and Crowder to compete for snaps in the slot last season. Going into the season Beane talked as though McKenzie had earned a shot at the slot role. McKenzie said he was open against zone and Josh wouldn't throw to him. I think that's true. At least in part, I think that's because Josh simply didn't trust McKenzie to 1) read the defense and run the route option Josh expected him to run as Josh expected him to run it - he could be open, but if he's open doing something different than Josh expects, as Beasley said "there will be a lot of interceptions" so Josh wouldn't take that risk 2) run the routes with the proper shape and timing 3) make it "his ball or no one's ball", especially if the throw were a bit off-target. McKenzie's biggest flaw as a receiver IMO was his persistent tendency to body-catch. As we saw in Miami with Josh's interception off Beasley, it's dangerous to try to body-catch in traffic; if the ball is deflected, it can very well be picked. Mmm, that would be why Beane paid more money to Deonte Harty, who is like an inch shorter and has slightly shorter arms? Because he's too damned short to be a good target? It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane. name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length. Name one? I’ll save you some time. In the history of the NFL there are no successful WRs with dirtys dimensions. Check mate my friend edit: I’m a fan of Harty and I expect him to make some big plays for us…. But he was never signed to be our starting slot WR imo. The likelihood of him staying healthy if he gets 100+ targets is very unlikely imo. I expect him to play some outside (not just slot) and run a fair amount of outside/ deep routes. Edited June 2, 2023 by NewEra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 4 hours ago, BillsFanInRaleigh said: Because he trips over his feet more times than he catches the ball This For a little speedy type the guy was just clumsy af 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 I don’t think it’s so much that McKenzie can’t play in the NFL as it is that the bills were just looking for better Whenever you have to bring back Cole Beasley because Josh Allen doesn’t have a comfort level with McKenzie in the slot you know that it’s time to move on It will always be the real question to me, as why, shakur was not given more of an opportunity to get a stranglehold on that spot. It seems like every time he got on the field good things happened. I think he’s gonna beat this year and the bills are gonna have a good problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, NewEra said: It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane. name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length. Name one? I’ll save you some time. In the history of the NFL there are no successful WRs with dirtys dimensions. Check mate my friend edit: I’m a fan of Harty and I expect him to make some big plays for us…. But he was never signed to be our starting slot WR imo. The likelihood of him staying healthy if he gets 100+ targets is very unlikely imo. I expect him to play some outside (not just slot) and run a fair amount of outside/ deep routes. Wes Walker and Steve Smith were both 5'9" - not appreciably bigger than Lil Dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said: Wes Walker and Steve Smith were both 5'9" - not appreciably bigger than Lil Dirty. Steve Smith was a larger body frame and way more physical then McKenzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 10 hours ago, BillsFanInRaleigh said: Because he trips over his feet more times than he catches the ball This sounds like James Cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 5 hours ago, NewEra said: It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane. name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length. Name one? Cole Beasley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Just wasn't up to the job. I don't think the Bills ever quite got it right with Isaiah. I think they underused him at times under Dabes and then overused him last season. He is a gadget / gimmick guy who can be a valuable piece when you play heavy man coverage teams. No surprise his two biggest Bills performances came against the Dolphins under Flores and the Patriots. Both teams that played more man than most NFL teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagoon Blues Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 7 hours ago, The Wiz said: Well there was one specific thing that changed from 2021 to 2022 and it wasn't anything on the field. Sarcasm noted. Maybe it was just my perception but the net gain seemed to be positive on those plays more often than not. Would have thought Ken would have kept aspects that worked instead of abandoning completely. Just my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Lapses in concentration at times seemed to be an issue. Good guy though and I wish him well in Indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Every 7-8th grade basketball team has a guy like him - someone athletically gifted that burns by the opponents in the open court and misses the layup. He will occasionally make a spectacular play while routinely not taking advantage of the everyday play. I'm not sure if it's preparation, focus/discipline but given the opportunity, he didn't take advantage of it fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 13 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: I think it’s interesting they have paid Harty twice as much as Dirty,,, They must be quite high on him.. Harty apparently rejected higher paying offers, multiple teams, to play here. I love the film on him, and expect him to make a big name for himself here He adds another dimension to the O with his speed and is overall a much better WR than Lil Dirty Have very high expectations for him in this o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1105 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 The problem is the Bills don't have a ton of speed at WR and teams try to mitigate the big plays by the Bills offense. That means that a lot of teams play a plethora of two high safety/zone looks to make the Bills matriculate the ball down the field. This is not McKenzie's strength. His strength is playing against man to man coverage and his best games as a WR came against such. When he was forced to sit in zones or find openings that mitigates his greatest strength(his speed) and he just isn't good at it. Its a feel for whats going on around you to find open spaces in zone defenses. McKenzie didn't have that trait. He also has average to below average hands which are vital for a slot WR. Its always been a curse for him even when he was with the Broncos in the preseason muffing and fumbling punt returns and you could see that residual here with the Bills still. I also think Allen lost faith in him midway through last season after the dropping/fumbling/tripping that he did early in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 One word- PODCAST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said: One word- PODCAST. I’ve listened to just about all of his podcasts with Tyler Dunne. He presented it as though he was open and doing his job - Josh just wasn’t throwing to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Drops, bad route runner, and had trouble identifying man vs zone coverage. At times, it looked like he didn't know what he was doing on the play. When two receivers ended up being too close together on their routes, McKenzie was usually one of them. Had Crowder not been injured, McKenzie would have been a regular inactive on game day or even cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Inconsistency. Inability to effectively beat zone coverage. Inability to sell his routes properly at the top...too many rounded routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 18 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said: Sarcasm noted. Maybe it was just my perception but the net gain seemed to be positive on those plays more often than not. Would have thought Ken would have kept aspects that worked instead of abandoning completely. Just my opinion of course. He should have keep it. That's the really frustrating part about it. It probably worked 9 times out of 10 for getting the same amount of yards, or better, than handing it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 7 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Wes Walker and Steve Smith were both 5'9" - not appreciably bigger than Lil Dirty. 3 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Cole Beasley? McKenzie measured was 5’7 at the combine. Maybe he grew? 🤷🏻♂️ I get your point, but I hope you also get my point. Size DOES matter when you’re THAT small. If it didn’t, there would be other successful 5’7 WRs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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