Why did Isaiah McKenzie fail as starting Slot WR?

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Of course it does.  It’s not a guarantee you can’t be a successful WR like Beasley though if you’re superb in other areas.  McKenzie wasn’t.

I did t say it was a guarantee I said that was one of his problems.  

[JohnNord]

16 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

It was a close call, a GOOD RB or Receiver would have gotten that ball, he basically muffed it.  Some say it was an ad lib by Josh but I see it as a muff and because is was behind the line of scrimmage it went down as a Josh fumble.

 

 

I remember in Week 1, he popped up a pass that turned into an INT.  Obviously that goes on Josh, and maybe it was too hard of a throw, but a better receiver makes that catch. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

McKenzie wasn't used correctly IMO. He was a great "change of pace" slot guy and that is where he should've remained. What happened to those awesome Jet Sweeps we used to run? He was amazing at those. I think some players shine better in a limited role and I don't think Dorsey was creative enough to use McKenzie's strengths. He put him out there as a traditional slot which he never was his entire career. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BuffaloMatt said:

He wasn't focused on the one job he needed to be good at.  If I am GM I put in contract no in season broadcasting unless it's team authorized. 

I don’t think a team could do that under the terms of the CBA

 

1) the NFL, an entertainment business,  mandates media availability for players.  It’s not consistent with that to limit in-season media

 

2) the players want to “build their brand”, gain name recognition so they can sell merch and perhaps be marketable for broadcasting gigs.  They can’t say anything “detrimental to the league”, but requiring team approval would allow teams too much control of what players do on their time off.  So the NFLPA would fight it.

[NoSaint]

13 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

McKenzie wasn't used correctly IMO. He was a great "change of pace" slot guy and that is where he should've remained. What happened to those awesome Jet Sweeps we used to run? He was amazing at those. I think some players shine better in a limited role and I don't think Dorsey was creative enough to use McKenzie's strengths. He put him out there as a traditional slot which he never was his entire career. 

we didn’t have depth to baby the guy once crowder was hurt and Davis was limping around. Someone needs to step up and he’s not that guy. Which means he doesn’t fit a Super Bowl roster well…

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

we didn’t have depth to baby the guy once crowder was hurt and Davis was limping around. Someone needs to step up and he’s not that guy. Which means he doesn’t fit a Super Bowl roster well…

IDK about that. A perfectly healthy Shakir should've been used more and I'm sure 90% of this board would agree. McD needs to start taking chances w/ talented rookies.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Yeah that's where we disagree. Just because a play or game doesnt work out the way we hope, doesnt mean it's a coordinators fault.

 

Daboll was fired because he had terrible QB's and its practically impossible to overcome that.  Very few have.

 

 

Mularkey's offenses in Pittsburgh were 11th in total TD's scored, 19th in TD's, and 10th in TD's.

 

It was a good offense, but hardly a "top ranked" offense, considering it was only top 10 once and top 5 never.

Daboll averaged 45 TD's per season as o-coordinator with the Bills. Mularkey averaged in the 30's.

 

 

Read that aloud and listen to yourself.   

 

Daboll had a lot more than a "play or game" not work out.  Daboll without a good QB was a dead f*cking last ranked OC and fired thrice for it.......and then in his fourth shot as an NFL OC with the 2018 Bills.........his offense was the worst scoring offense thru the first half of a season that the NFL had seen since the merger.

 

His floor has been established as extremely low.    It's proven.

 

Mularkey without good QB's, in Pittsburgh at least,  was very productive.   I mean, Tommy Maddox was trash and that was his QB for 2 of those seasons.  People forget that part of the reason that Mularkey was a desirable HC candidate was because he got production out of what were perceived to be very limited QB's.   He was seen as a guy who could probably elevate the game of a young QB........and drafting one in round 1 was Donahoe's objective at the time.   His first year in Buffalo he elevated Bledsoe.........his second season with a first year starter JP Losman and a journeyman Kelly Holcomb was one of the worst called offense's in Bills history.       

 

[I'm Spartacus]

On 6/2/2023 at 12:41 AM, NewEra said:

It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane.

 

name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length.    Name one?  
 

I’ll save you some time.  In the history of the NFL there are no successful WRs with dirtys dimensions. Check mate my friend 

I was going to say Marlin Briscoe, but I looked him up and he was listed at 5'11"

[Maine-iac]

McKenzie shows the difference between a track star and lets say Kupp or Beasley.  When it comes to playing the slot a track star is not the most valuable trait.  Finding holes in the zone and catching stuff thrown at you in weird positions make the difference.  When you consider the drop off from 80 catches with Beasley to 40 with McKenzie you have to consider that Allen didn't trust McKenzie to read the defense and get open quick enough to catch the same passes that Beasley would have had thrown at him.  I'm making some assumptions there but I feel fairly safe in assuming those things.

[BarleyNY]

On 6/2/2023 at 7:46 AM, NewEra said:

 

McKenzie measured was 5’7 at the combine.  Maybe he grew?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

 

I get your point, but I hope you also get my point.  Size DOES matter when you’re THAT small.  If it didn’t, there would be other successful 5’7 WRs 

Yup. This is why I’m surprised that people are expecting a significant contribution from Harty - and why I was surprised to see how much the Bills paid him. He’s smaller than McKenzie. 

[NickelCity]

On 6/2/2023 at 1:49 PM, JohnNord said:

I remember in Week 1, he popped up a pass that turned into an INT.  Obviously that goes on Josh, and maybe it was too hard of a throw, but a better receiver makes that catch. 

 

It was worse than that. He just placed it in the defender's arms lol.

[SirAndrew]

McKenzie was insanely overrated by much of the fanbase, and could never live up to that hype. He has speed, but lacks the talent and football smarts to be an elite slot receiver. He’s an average player, who can contribute nice things as a gadget speedster. McKenzie was a fifth round pick who never caught on after two years in Denver, yet we expected him to be an elite slot guy. He’s a decent gadget player, and there’s nothing wrong with that type of guy for depth, but I think we expected too much from him. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by SirAndrew

[SirAndrew]

On 6/2/2023 at 5:56 PM, NoSaint said:

we didn’t have depth to baby the guy once crowder was hurt and Davis was limping around. Someone needs to step up and he’s not that guy. Which means he doesn’t fit a Super Bowl roster well…

People forget that Crowder was supposed to be the slot guy taking over Beasley’s old job. His career indicates good numbers with Allen were likely, but injury stopped that plan. McKenzie was never the plan for starting slot receiver. This regime clearly didn’t trust him in that role, he just took over following that injury. I know some people thought the slot receiver position was up for grabs last summer, but that was Crowder’s job. 

[Maine-iac]

25 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

People forget that Crowder was supposed to be the slot guy taking over Beasley’s old job. His career indicates good numbers with Allen were likely, but injury stopped that plan. McKenzie was never the plan for starting slot receiver. This regime clearly didn’t trust him in that role, he just took over following that injury. I know some people thought the slot receiver position was up for grabs last summer, but that was Crowder’s job. 

They signed McKenzie to a bigger contract than Crowder during the same off season.  Possibly they signed McKenzie before Crowder (I can't remember).  At the very least he must have been expected to compete for the slot job at some point. Not surprised Crowder got it.  The breaking point for me was that not only was he hot and cold playing WR he couldn't be trusted returning kicks either.

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

They signed McKenzie to a bigger contract than Crowder during the same off season.  Possibly they signed McKenzie before Crowder (I can't remember).  At the very least he must have been expected to compete for the slot job at some point. Not surprised Crowder got it.  The breaking point for me was that not only was he hot and cold playing WR he couldn't be trusted returning kicks either.

that’s not always how those play out. If crowder was the reliable 8 yard catch guy he could be the lower paid but higher reps player compared to an explosive play gadget guy. That said, I think it was a case of hoping you throw 2 darts and one lands. 

[SirAndrew]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

that’s not always how those play out. If crowder was the reliable 8 yard catch guy he could be the lower paid but higher reps player compared to an explosive play gadget guy. That said, I think it was a case of hoping you throw 2 darts and one lands. 

That’s fair. I just had a tough time not seeing Crowder as the starting slot receiver. He came to Buffalo with six 50+ reception seasons, and was a reliable slot receiver who’d likely put up career numbers with Allen. I actually found the idea that McKenzie and Crowder were competing for the position to be somewhat bizarre. Crowder had a legitimate resume, while McKenzie was proven as an inconsistent gadget play.
 

A reliable eight yard catch guy is preferable at starting slot over the occasion big play. Crowder could have coexisted with McKenzie as a big play gadget guy. I think you’re correct, they hoped one of the two darts would land, but Crowder would have easily been my starter. We already knew what we had in McKenzie, a big play guy you can’t trust in big spots. I think Beane and McDermott are spectacular, but I can’t say I fully trust their player assessments. Obviously Crowder’s greatest weakness is his inability to stay healthy, and the rest is history. 

[MrEpsYtown]

4.42 at his size is not fast, add that to pretty sloppy route running and pretty bad hands…you have nothing. His short area quickness rarely showed up. I think people made him out to be something he wasn’t. I think the idea of what he could be was way more interesting than what he was. I am not surprised at all. 

[Beck Water]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:32 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

It was a close call, a GOOD RB or Receiver would have gotten that ball, he basically muffed it.  Some say it was an ad lib by Josh but I see it as a muff and because is was behind the line of scrimmage it went down as a Josh fumble.

 

Josh said it was an ad-lib by Josh, so, there is that.

 

It's a point that a good RB or WR (especially with Josh as their QB) needs to be on their toes and ready for anything until the whistle blows.  It's why I think folks here have a valid point that McKenzie had "focus" issues.  It's like he ran his reverse, didn't get the handoff, got to the sideline and said "my job here is done" instead of being ready for whatever.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

They signed McKenzie to a bigger contract than Crowder during the same off season.  Possibly they signed McKenzie before Crowder (I can't remember).  At the very least he must have been expected to compete for the slot job at some point. Not surprised Crowder got it.  The breaking point for me was that not only was he hot and cold playing WR he couldn't be trusted returning kicks either.

 

The actual yearly salary difference between the two was very slight - McKenzie at $2.26M and Crowder at $1.97.  So like $260k.

 

I think your read is correct that they were expected to compete/share the slot role, and McKenzie seemed to be ahead of Crowder in camp.

Crowder did not "get" the starting slot role, he and McKenzie were splitting snaps there - McK averaging 47% of the snaps and Crowder 36% before breaking his leg, with the Buffalo sportswriters frantically reading "tea leaves" about who got more snaps each week.

 

Anyway, McKenzie is the Colts problem now.

 

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

That’s fair. I just had a tough time not seeing Crowder as the starting slot receiver. He came to Buffalo with six 50+ reception seasons, and was a reliable slot receiver who’d likely put up career numbers with Allen. I actually found the idea that McKenzie and Crowder were competing for the position to be somewhat bizarre. Crowder had a legitimate resume, while McKenzie was proven as an inconsistent gadget play.

 

Another viewpoint is that McKenzie had been stuck on the depth chart behind Beasley and had broken out for some very big games when given the chance.  It's not like he'd been given a chance to start in the slot and failed previously - Beasley never wanted to leave the field, broken ribs, broken leg, didn't matter.

 

The Bills didn't want to put their full trust in McK as a slot, thus the Crowder signing, but Crowder also had a resume of being injured and unavailable.  From how they were handled in camp and their snaps early in the season, it seemed as though the Bills viewed them as competing or at least, sharing snaps.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Mikie2times]

I don't think he was a very good route runner. He had no clue how to set DB's up out of his breaks. He wasn't football smart. Didn't know when to just sit down on the route. He was basically very bad at the things Cole was very good at. He also didn't have the best hands. Perhaps that's why so many seemed hesitant to take him out of the gadget role. He is quick, athletic, and can create some issues depending on how you use him just not a starting slot.