Leslie Frazier: Hopefully I’ll have a chance to interview for head coaching jobs in 2024

[Ga boy]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

The man was born in a town of 25,000 people nicknamed "Possum City".  He didn't know his father.  His grandmother raised him while his mother struggled with substance abuse.  "I'm going to college"  Probably someone told him, "You're delusional"

 

Went to a HBCU in Mississippi.  "I'm going to play in the NFL"  Probably someone told him,  "You're delusional"

Especially after he tore his hammy his Jr year then skipped his Sr season and declared for the draft.

Wasn't drafted - it woulda been long odds with the injury and from a small school. 

Signed as an UDFA with the Bears.  "I'm going to be a starter" Probably someone told him, "You're delusional"

Became a starter.  Played in the Superbowl on what may have been one of the greatest defenses ever.  Injured during the Superbowl, couldn't come back from it.

"I'm going to be a football coach".  Probably someone told him "You're delusional".  First HC for Trinity College, built the program from the ground up.

Jumped to an assistant position in a big college program 1 year, then to the NFL.  Rest is easily discoverable.

 

I can't tell you if Frazier will be given the chance to become a HC in the NFL, but I can tell you for sure he's overcome pretty steep odds to his previous achievements.

 

I think he probably looked methodically at what he thought he needed to do to get the HC gig he wanted, and that he wasn't going to be able to do that while giving his full attention as DC of the Bills.

Personally, I wouldn't bet against him.  Wouldn't bet on him, either of course - there are only a few of those gigs up for grabs each year.

Solid guy and coach.  He schemed many good defenses against quality teams with us.  Best thing in his favor is that he is available.  Someone will get fired, and every owner would see him as an option.  Hope he gets a chance.

[mrags]

”Hopefully, an owner will give me a chance to talk to him about an opportunity,”
 

great. Just why we need. After McDermott gets fired for not being any better than Frazier. Proving he was what was wrong this whole time, Pegula will offer Frazier the HC position. Just what we needed. Ugh. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh stop people, I’m only kidding. Well, kind of. 

[bigK14094]

19 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I highly doubt he will get a HC job, but would that even still apply?  Is he still technically employed by the Bills?

Well, he didn't do well in Minn, but Marv Levy didn't do well in KC before being a success w the Bills.  Hey, you never know. (as Marv often said)

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

21 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Bring on the comp! 😉

 

 

 

20 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I highly doubt he will get a HC job, but would that even still apply?  Is he still technically employed by the Bills?

 

There was an article I read somewhere the other day that touched on this and quoted the league rules.  The language is a bit vague on whether he'd still fit the formula after taking a year off as seem to recall something about the word continued employment or something??  The writers take was likely would be subject to debate and appeal to the league.  Don't get your hopes up.

 

Just found where I read it, one of the provisions in the rule, the question was does taking a year off count as a break:

 

The minority employee is not the Head Coach or Primary Football Executive of the employer-club and is hired into the same position with the new club. There can be no break in employment between clubs.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Matt_In_NH]

I like Leslie Frazier but I don't think there will be a lot of opportunity for a HC position given his age mostly  Not that he cant do it, just if a team is trying to establish something you would have to consider how long he will be around for.  The fact his expertise is D and not O also works against him.  Maybe if a team needs an interim coach or something he can get an opportunity.

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nor me. He has had 5 interviews I think while he has been the Bills DC. His best chances were Indy after McDaniels bailed when they chose Frank Reich and Houston when they were in chaos and they chose Culley. Because his skillset is perfectly suited to dealing with turmoil. Where actually a team need someone to calm things down rather than fire them up. 

 

A calming force has only so much value.  He would still have to win games as a HC.  Not sure where that would come from.  

 

His career would not be a failure if his next job was as a DC.  He's good at that.  

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

16 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

13 is 1000% on d bag Heath Farwell for not getting the squib kick call in to Bass.   

 

Credit to McD for not throwing him under the bus publicly and letting him leave quietly.   

Yes, but the head coach has to give the green light before they make that call. Especially in crucial situations like that. Dumb call by Farwell, Incredibly dumb calls by Frazier, but McD could’ve vetoed either one. I love the guy and don’t want him to go anywhere, but one of the worst head coaching displays I’ve ever seen. 

[ProcessTruster]

1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Yes, but the head coach has to give the green light before they make that call. Especially in crucial situations like that. Dumb call by Farwell, Incredibly dumb calls by Frazier, but McD could’ve vetoed either one. I love the guy and don’t want him to go anywhere, but one of the worst head coaching displays I’ve ever seen. 

Given the criticality of the situation, I am pretty sure McD himself called for the deep but inbounds kickoff that Bass does so well, but Farwell did not, for some unknown reason, relay that call into Bass.  Otherwise, if feel McD, given the kind of guy he is, would have called himself out for making a wrong call (kick thru endzone) , which he never has to date.   This fact is significant.   IMHO, McD protected Farwell and Farwell quietly moved on.   

 

McD making a wrong call doesn't fit the facts we have.    Shame on the media for not investigating this to conclusion (someone is telling them to leave it alone, I am convinced).  

[GerstAusGosheim]

23 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

If this is all true, this is a bizarre way to attract a HC opportunity.  Would have been way better off staying as the Bills DC and get over the hump.  That's how you create demand for yourself.

Bizarre for sure, that's why the Bills official story doesn't add up. The best explanation I've heard is that he got fired/pushed out when Sean told him he was taking over the play calling. "Taking a year off" was the legal compromise since the Bills couldn't exactly fire a Black DC with a consistent top 5 D. They'd get roasted. I don't make the rules, that's life in 2023.

 

13 seconds has also been discussed to death. The Special Teams coordinator was quietly let go and LBs coach quietly "retired." Sean clearly identified who was to blame with these moves. Anyone who wants to blame Leslie should blame Sean too because it's his scheme and he was standing right there. Could have changed anything he wanted.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

A calming force has only so much value.  He would still have to win games as a HC.  Not sure where that would come from.  

 

His career would not be a failure if his next job was as a DC.  He's good at that.  

 

He did make the playoffs with a mess in Minnesota. That style has a limit, but if your franchise is in chaos it also has some value.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did make the playoffs with a mess in Minnesota. That style has a limit, but if your franchise is in chaos it also has some value.

 

Ages ago.  And since, he has been passed over many times.

 

A younger guy can bring stability to a chaotic franchise.  McD, Stefanski, Campbell have.  

 

Lovie Smith is a calming presence.  The Texans will fire him after this season. 

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ages ago.  And since, he has been passed over many times.

 

A younger guy can bring stability to a chaotic franchise.  McD, Stefanski, Campbell have.  

 

Lovie Smith is a calming presence.  The Texans will fire him after this season. 

 

Lovie has already been fired. And sure, a younger guy cab bring stability to a chaotic franchise. I wasn't arguing that ONLY Frazier can do that. I was arguing that those two situations were the ones where I saw the value for Frazier's skillset. 

[boater]

Given he's Defense in an Offense driven league...

 

Given his age when age-ism is prevalent in hiring practices (I can personally attest to that)...

 

He will never be hired as HC.

 

Sad part, he will somehow blame his lack of HC hire on the Bills.

Edited May 31, 2023 by boater

[BillsFan692]

10 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I mean it makes sense. If he wants to be a HC and nothing else he wasn't going to get as many nibbles with the Bills making deep playoff runs where the D falls apart.

 

The year off is his best chance for a HC role. I don't think they are great odds. 

I think the bills forced him out honestly

[3rdand12]

On 5/30/2023 at 2:22 PM, PonyBoy said:

To quote Grumpy Old Men

 

"Well you can wish in one hand & crap in the other. See which one gets filled 1st.

 

Good luck Leslie 

LOL  Was a euphemism long before the movie. and valid.
 

Can i say " i dont care what he does ? "

I mean in the NFL.

As a person ? I think he is a Good Man and wish him well

 

But lets move on and go win a SB 

Go Bills

 

53 minutes ago, boater said:

Given he's Defense in an Offense driven league...

 

Given his age when age-ism is prevalent in hiring practices (I can personally attest to that)...

 

He will never be hired as HC.

 

Sad part, he will somehow blame his lack of HC hire on the Bills.

you might be projecting with the bolded

[Beck Water]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I wasn't commenting on his character at all.  But he is delusional if he thinks at his age and with his record that he would get another job as an NFL HC.

 

His chance to become one has been given to him  since he was fired as a HC years ago---mainly that was as DC for the Bills.  While he certainly can now give it his full attention, I don't know how being unemployed looks methodically like what one would need to do to get a HC gig...

 

I agree with you that his odds are poor and he faces an uphill fight, especially with the current trend being to hire offensive coordinators and assistants.

 

My point was that he has faced poor odds and an uphill fight at many previous stages of his life, and nevertheless he's prevailed.

 

I think the HC interview process depends a lot on salesmanship: how good of a plan the coach has put together and how tailored it is to the specifics of the interviewing team.  So I can see where time to self-reflect and spend analyzing one's plans and maybe taking a fresh approach to them might be helpful, along with not trying to divide responsibilities between defensive game planning and interview prep.

[Mikie2times]

I wonder what it would have taken for his wish to come true. I don’t think it’s as simple as just saying erase 13 seconds. Hell, I don’t know if it’s as simple as erasing 13 seconds and Cincinnati. To get recognized at his age as a defensive coach you need to be as good as he was in the regular season and then dominate for a full postseason with a SB win. which in turn likely gets you labeled as a “guru”. 
 

I don’t think he would have ever got another HC offer unless that happened.   

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Lovie has already been fired. And sure, a younger guy cab bring stability to a chaotic franchise. I wasn't arguing that ONLY Frazier can do that. I was arguing that those two situations were the ones where I saw the value for Frazier's skillset. 

 

I missed Lovie's firing!  A terrible hire.  This would be a hindrance to Frazier--mediocre older guy with no new ideas, a very limited skillset.  

 

 

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I agree with you that his odds are poor and he faces an uphill fight, especially with the current trend being to hire offensive coordinators and assistants.

 

My point was that he has faced poor odds and an uphill fight at many previous stages of his life, and nevertheless he's prevailed.

 

I think the HC interview process depends a lot on salesmanship: how good of a plan the coach has put together and how tailored it is to the specifics of the interviewing team.  So I can see where time to self-reflect and spend analyzing one's plans and maybe taking a fresh approach to them might be helpful, along with not trying to divide responsibilities between defensive game planning and interview prep.

 

Again, he's had what any person would describe as a very successful NFL coaching career.  But it's run it's course, I think.

 

He's already had the opportunity to do the bolded.  No team bit.  It's not due to a lack time for self-reflection. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Now that I've had a few (more) months to reflect on the Leslie Frazier Defense Era:

 

- He is a fantastic defensive coordinator. He built an excellent defense, and did it in a way that adapts to changes in offensive philosophies/personnel.

- Remember that old Billy Beane/Moneyball line? "My [crap] doesn't work in the playoffs." That's the self-realization that Frazier hasn't had yet. In other words: first you gotta win the regular season to make the playoffs, and (ideally) get a bye week or even home field. We all know that points allowed correlates strongly (but imperfectly) with wins. And Frazier built a deep, well-disciplined defense that was able to deliver the regular season wins despite injuries that would have destroyed many teams: losing your best (arguably elite) CB in White, losing your elite S in Hyde, losing Von, watching as several key draft picks (AJ, Boogie) failed to develop as hoped, etc, etc. That's a real accomplishment. A lot of defenses would have collapsed in the regular season under those circumstances.

- But what gets you to 12 or 13 wins in the regular season against teams both good and bad (Jets, Pats, Dolphins 6 times a year for the last couple years doesn't hurt your record) doesn't necessarily work against elite teams (Chiefs, Bengals) in a one-game playoff. So maybe defenses built to bend but not break, or built for depth rather than around a couple true star performers just aren't the best thing for the latter situation. Maybe his crap doesn't work in the playoffs?

 

Is that fixable? For Billy Beane, it wasn't. Having really good/deep starting pitching (the early 2000s super rotation of Hudson-Mulder-Zito) was great in the regular season. They all provided huge numbers of way above average innings. But none of them was Peak Roger Clemens or John Smoltz - the guys who will absolutely shut down the other team's lineup 2 or 3 times in a short playoff series. They were built to win the Best Record, Regular-Season Division. Not a one-game playoff. The Von Miller acquisition was in recognition of that fact. It almost worked until it didn't.