Reasons for optimism, pessimism

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, finn said:

Reasons to be optimistic about the season:

--Many key players are in their prime, including Allen, Diggs, Davis, Dawkins, Harris, Knox, Oliver, Milano, and White.

--Oliver is in his contract year, so he may finally live up to his draft status. 

--Allen, Davis, Poyer, Hyde, and Brown are all healthy, and White is another year past his ACL injury.  

--Knox has had a year to recover from losing his brother, and the team has had the offseason to recover from Hamlin, Tops, etc. 

--Beane has done a good job upgrading the depth, adding Poona, Edwards, Sherfield, Harty, Murray, and Shell, as well as bringing back key veterans like Lawson and Martin.

--McDermott takes over DC duties. Conceivably, this could be a negative, but he won the head coach job because he was a very effective DC, so odds are he'll do great. 

--Dorsey, Kromer, Smiley, Babich, and Brady all have a year's worth of experience with their respective charges, which can only help. 

--Last year's rookies all look ready to contribute more than last year, especially Elam, Cook, Benford, and Shakir. 

--This year's rookies should make valuable contributions, and Kincaid, Torrence, and Williams may end up starting. 

--They are no longer the media darlings anymore, which might take some of the pressure off. 

 

Reasons for pessimism:

--Diggs' prima donna act may get worse and become a distraction.

--They now need to get past not just the Chiefs, but also the Bengals, Dolphins, Jets, and maybe Ravens. 

--They have no real backup for Dawkins. 

--Their pass rush will likely continue to be mediocre until Miller returns. 

--The offensive line may have two new starters and will take time to jell. 

--Kincaid, Harty, Shorter, and Sheffield might not add enough juice, even taken together. 

 

As you see, reasons for optimism outnumber reasons for pessimism. But it's only May!

Rousseau is going into his 3rd season which is crucial for his position and showed flashes last year. He doubled his sacks from 4 to 8 in year 2. I fully expect him to add to that total and show more consistency. Some players just need more time to develop. Rousseau has showed steady improvement IMO

[GoBills808]

Still one of the premier teams in the NFL

 

unsure whether that will translate into a Super Bowl as currently constructed 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think it's clear that Beane has done what he can to strain the cap in a balanced effort to keep the roster at the level it topped out at. 

 

I think there were two approaches to this offseason. The Bills could have gone for 1-2 elite players (made a trade for Hopkins, pushed to sign Tremaine Edmunds right away, looked to sign an OT to replace Brown. This would have come at the expense of several depth players - Poona Ford, Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, maybe Sherfield or Harty, players like that. 

 

The second option was a balanced approach that Beane has employed for several offseasons in a row - upgrade size at RB, pushed for starting talent at OG, turned over the bottom 3 at WR, etc, worked Safety depth, brought back nearly all of our own free agents, and generally squeezed every drop out of the existing cap. 

 

Let's see if the approach selected was the right one. 

 

I think the cap is strained, I think Beane has done nearly all he could (veteran pass rusher maybe) away from taking a balanced approach on the roster. 

 

 

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm optimistic. We still have a good roster. We conceivably may not have as many true difference makers as the teams we are competing against, but we are deep is most areas and the team showed last year that we can survive even when losing key men to injury. I also think too much is being read into the Bengals game. The Bills played a dreadful game all around. It was their worst performance of the season. Otherwise they lost 3 games by a combined 8 points. They laid an egg on a big stage, but that is being seen as a referendum on where they are as a team more than it should be. Oh and we still have Josh Allen. 

 

If Josh stays healthy we win the AFCE and it will come down to needing to peak at the right time and get a bounce or two in our favour in the playoffs. 

Funny how fans can just see that Cinci pathetic loss as a " one off."  You seem to be doing your best interpretation of this. No disrespect intended.

 

He's why that loss is significant. The Bills for 5 years have found ways to lose big playoff games. The Cinci game is another example of bad playoff losses.

 

At some point, players, coaches, and the organization needs to get it done. Fans need to stop making excuses and hold people to accountability. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

 

Though I'm more optimistic about the Bills this year than last — Kincaid, upgraded O-line, McD calling what should be a more aggressive D — this has been my fear about the Bills for a while.

I hope I'm either wrong or the team and Josh have evolved into a tougher team. The harder schedule this year will reveal a lot about the character and mental toughness of the team and Josh.

Most of the off season I've thought 2023 is on Dorsey.   It still is, but Josh needs to become elite, and that's about not just being good with some spectacular plays thrown in; it's about being a high-performance technician - getting his decisions and his throws right, play after play after play.  

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Funny how fans can just see that Cinci pathetic loss as a " one off."  You seem to be doing your best interpretation of this. No disrespect intended.

 

He's why that loss is significant. The Bills for 5 years have found ways to lose big playoff games. The Cinci game is another example of bad playoff losses.

 

At some point, players, coaches, and the organization needs to get it done. Fans need to stop making excuses and hold people to accountability. 

 

That is your view. It isn't mine. The Bills sucked that day. I don't know the reason. They just had a stinker. It can happen. It does happen. No excuses. But it's life. You ever fluffed a job interview? Ever blown a first date? Humans screw up sometimes even in big moments.

 

That game is not a referendum on the state of the Bills. This wasn't "finding a way to lose a playoff game" it was not turning up to one.

[947]

I think people are underestimating just how huge not having Saffold on field is going to be. Josh makes too many mistakes? How many of those last year just happened to be on the same play where Saffold (or Brown) whiffed & allowed a free rusher breathing down on Josh before he even secured the snap? Adding 2 major upgrades at OG is huge. If we were a top offense despite that, I have a ton of optimism for our 23' offense.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, wjag said:

I'm still trying to reconcile that last game against the Bengals.  To be so totally outclassed has to have a hangover effect.  

 

I like all the additions on paper.  I don't expect much from the rookie class.  History tells us few will likely pop, immediately.

 

For me, it really comes down to the OLINE.  And right now, I have no clue if they will be better or worse.

 

There's no reason why the OL should be worse.  It's essentially the same minus Saffold who was terrible.  McGovern would really have to stink for it to be worse.  If he's what they're saying then the OL should be significantly improved.  Then factor in Torrence.  There should be a significant improvement there, but improved from on/about average, so it still likely won't be one of the top OLs in the league, but it should easily be better.  Who knows, maybe it'll be a top-5.  We'll see, time will tell.  This is the first time we've had that much chemistry existing on the OL going into the season though, which in and of itself is reason for hope.  

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

26 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Funny how fans can just see that Cinci pathetic loss as a " one off."  You seem to be doing your best interpretation of this. No disrespect intended.

 

He's why that loss is significant. The Bills for 5 years have found ways to lose big playoff games. The Cinci game is another example of bad playoff losses.

 

At some point, players, coaches, and the organization needs to get it done. Fans need to stop making excuses and hold people to accountability. 

With everything the Bills went through in the 3 weeks leading up to that Cinci game, Injuries. players not getting 100% healthy and playing. the whole mental side of it as well... people need to move on from that game. we were not in it from moment one. 

[newcam2012]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is your view. It isn't mine. The Bills sucked that day. I don't know the reason. They just had a stinker. It can happen. It does happen. No excuses. But it's life. You ever fluffed a job interview? Ever blown a first date? Humans screw up sometimes even in big moments.

 

That game is not a referendum on the state of the Bills. This wasn't "finding a way to lose a playoff game" it was not turning up to one.

We will disagree to disagree. 

 

It's the cumlative effect that many seem short sighted. Imho, there is a pretty solid history under McD of the Bills falling short in the playoffs. I'd argue its more of a concern than many fans think. 

 

If you deep deeper into the Cinci game you can also conclude that the Bills coaching staff was inept and borderline pathetic. Why?

(1) The players were NOT ready to play. 

(2) What was the Bills game plan on both sides of the ball? I mean they had a dress rehearsal weeks before to get things right. The game plan was horrific.

(3) What were the game time coaching adjustments?

 

How many fans were calling a Bills win prior to the game? No one was talking about the tough toll of the season. No one was making excuses for the Bills. 

 

After the loss, the excuses flowed and flowed. They continue to this day. It's a one off, a bad day, too much to overcome, etc...How about the Bills aren't good enough to reach a Super Bowl; Allen or no Allen. How about the coaching staff is inferior to other quality coaches come playoff time. Is that reasonable? 

 

Until this team, coaching regime, and brass can get it done the criticism although tough is warranted. I don't apologize for my criticism. 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, 947 said:

I think people are underestimating just how huge not having Saffold on field is going to be. Josh makes too many mistakes? How many of those last year just happened to be on the same play where Saffold (or Brown) whiffed & allowed a free rusher breathing down on Josh before he even secured the snap? Adding 2 major upgrades at OG is huge. If we were a top offense despite that, I have a ton of optimism for our 23' offense.

You have confidence in Spencer Brown? 

[teef]

jesus herbert christ.

[Nephilim17]

56 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Most of the off season I've thought 2023 is on Dorsey.   It still is, but Josh needs to become elite, and that's about not just being good with some spectacular plays thrown in; it's about being a high-performance technician - getting his decisions and his throws right, play after play after play.  

Yes, I don't know if he got sloppy at times in the past out of overconfidence ("arm arrogance," if you will) but he doesn't always play 60 minutes without a couple bad decisions. You're right: stack good decision and smart throw after another and another. Then he can challenge anyone. 

Not-so-consistent Josh won't beat KC or Cinci otherwise.

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, PBF81 said:

This team has the potential to be the #1 Offense in the league.  Let's hope it pans out that way.  That will likely befall Dorsey.  

 

Defensively, not mentioned is the enormous question mark for the LB unit.  

 

Also only grazed upon, in our good seasons we've had relatively easy schedules in a relatively easy division.  The opposite is the case this season.  

 

If the D can finish in the top-10 this season I will be impressed.  

 

 

I think the Bills offense will be fine. I still think the RB situation is fluid. I don't think Cook is a true number 1 bell cow RB. He looked good towards the end of the year. He's still unproven and learning. We've seen plenty of RBs look good only to have disappointing second seasons. Another big question is Dorsey. Can he juggle the Rbs and use them appropriately? Will he commit to the run? 

 

The wide receiving core has improved but beside Diggs is there a difference maker. Will Kincaid have an immediate impact. Although it's possible. Come playoff time teams will blanket Diggs and take him out of the game. Will the Bills have an answer? 

 

How will the oline play? Lots of new pieces to the line? No one player is a stud player. Dawkins is solid but frankly I think he's a bit overrated. With that said, he's the least of the Bills worries. Spencer Brown is a huge concern. To this point, all we have is potential. I can see him playing well or terrible. 

 

Allen needs to limit the turnovers and stay healthy. As long as that happens, the Bills offense will likely be a top 5 offense. 

 

I do feel good that Beane actively addressed the offensive side of the ball. Hopefully, the Bills offense will be extremely good this year. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by newcam2012

[27yankees]

Endurance, physicality, and attitude. Winning requires a deep devotion and sacrifice. Everyone must be on the same page, and play stronger as each quarter, half, and game goes by. How bad do they want it. Over 50 years a fan, it's not how bad we want it, it's how bad they want it, and not to be partying all night before the Superbowl game. Can't be afraid to kick butt!!

[Dr. K]

39 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

We will disagree to disagree. 

 

It's the cumlative effect that many seem short sighted. Imho, there is a pretty solid history under McD of the Bills falling short in the playoffs. I'd argue its more of a concern than many fans think. 

 

If you deep deeper into the Cinci game you can also conclude that the Bills coaching staff was inept and borderline pathetic. Why?

(1) The players were NOT ready to play. 

(2) What was the Bills game plan on both sides of the ball? I mean they had a dress rehearsal weeks before to get things right. The game plan was horrific.

(3) What were the game time coaching adjustments?

 

How many fans were calling a Bills win prior to the game? No one was talking about the tough toll of the season. No one was making excuses for the Bills. 

 

After the loss, the excuses flowed and flowed. They continue to this day. It's a one off, a bad day, too much to overcome, etc...How about the Bills aren't good enough to reach a Super Bowl; Allen or no Allen. How about the coaching staff is inferior to other quality coaches come playoff time. Is that reasonable? 

 

Until this team, coaching regime, and brass can get it done the criticism although tough is warranted. I don't apologize for my criticism. 

 

We got it, Newcam. You have made your point of view perfectly clear, repeatedly. We've absolutely understood what you are saying. Thanks. 

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think the Bills offense will be fine. I still think the RB situation is fluid. I don't think Cook is a true number 1 bell cow RB. He looked good towards the end of the year. He's still unproven and learning. We've seen plenty of RBs look good only to have disappointing second years. Another big question is Dorsey. Can he juggle the Rbs and use them appropriately? Will he commit to the run? 

 

The wide receiving core has improved but beside Diggs there is no difference maker. Hard to think Kincaid will have an immediate impact. Although it's possible. Come playoff time teams will blanket Diggs and take him out of the game. Will the Bills have an answer? 

 

How will the oline play? Lots of new pieces to the line? No one player is a stud player. Dawkins is solid but frankly I think he's a bit overrated. With that said, he's the least of the Bills worries. Spencer Brown is a huge concern. To this point all we have is potential. I can see him playing well or terrible. 

 

Allen needs to limit the turnovers and stay healthy. As long as that happens, the Bills offense will be at worst a top 10 offense. 

 

I do feel good that Beane actively addressed the offensive side of the ball. Hopefully, the Bills offense will be extremely good this year. 

 

The 2 statements in bold is the only 2 really questionable things for most people I assume. 

[JoPoy88]

7 hours ago, finn said:

Reasons to be optimistic about the season:

--Many key players are in their prime, including Allen, Diggs, Davis, Dawkins, Harris, Knox, Oliver, Milano, and White.

--Oliver is in his contract year, so he may finally live up to his draft status. 

--Allen, Davis, Poyer, Hyde, and Brown are all healthy, and White is another year past his ACL injury.  

--Knox has had a year to recover from losing his brother, and the team has had the offseason to recover from Hamlin, Tops, etc. 

--Beane has done a good job upgrading the depth, adding Poona, Edwards, Sherfield, Harty, Murray, and Shell, as well as bringing back key veterans like Lawson and Martin.

--McDermott takes over DC duties. Conceivably, this could be a negative, but he won the head coach job because he was a very effective DC, so odds are he'll do great. 

--Dorsey, Kromer, Smiley, Babich, and Brady all have a year's worth of experience with their respective charges, which can only help. 

--Last year's rookies all look ready to contribute more than last year, especially Elam, Cook, Benford, and Shakir. 

--This year's rookies should make valuable contributions, and Kincaid, Torrence, and Williams may end up starting. 

--They are no longer the media darlings anymore, which might take some of the pressure off. 

 

Reasons for pessimism:

--Diggs' prima donna act may get worse and become a distraction.

--They now need to get past not just the Chiefs, but also the Bengals, Dolphins, Jets, and maybe Ravens. 

--They have no real backup for Dawkins. 

--Their pass rush will likely continue to be mediocre until Miller returns. 

--The offensive line may have two new starters and will take time to jell. 

--Kincaid, Harty, Shorter, and Sheffield might not add enough juice, even taken together. 

 

As you see, reasons for optimism outnumber reasons for pessimism. But it's only May!

Diggs is not a prima donna. 

[PBF81]

44 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think the Bills offense will be fine. I still think the RB situation is fluid. I don't think Cook is a true number 1 bell cow RB. He looked good towards the end of the year. He's still unproven and learning. We've seen plenty of RBs look good only to have disappointing second seasons. Another big question is Dorsey. Can he juggle the Rbs and use them appropriately? Will he commit to the run? 

 

The wide receiving core has improved but beside Diggs is there a difference maker. Will Kincaid have an immediate impact. Although it's possible. Come playoff time teams will blanket Diggs and take him out of the game. Will the Bills have an answer? 

 

How will the oline play? Lots of new pieces to the line? No one player is a stud player. Dawkins is solid but frankly I think he's a bit overrated. With that said, he's the least of the Bills worries. Spencer Brown is a huge concern. To this point, all we have is potential. I can see him playing well or terrible. 

 

Allen needs to limit the turnovers and stay healthy. As long as that happens, the Bills offense will likely be a top 5 offense. 

 

I do feel good that Beane actively addressed the offensive side of the ball. Hopefully, the Bills offense will be extremely good this year. 

 

We'll definitely need a little luck to reach that potential, #1 Offense that is, I do think that enough is there given Allen.  I wouldn't put money on it, largely because of Dorsey.  But hopefully he spent the offseason bettering himself.  

 

As to the OL, I've always been of the mindset that to have a top OL, as a unit that is, all that's necessary is five average-to-above-average starters that play well together.  Contrasted with one or two great OL-men and below-average talent in the other spots.  If Brown improves I think we have that.  Chemistry on the OL is more important than at any other unit.  

 

While unpopular, I'm also expecting Davis to improve as well.  

 

As to Cook & Harris, IMO it's a downgrade from last season, but it should be adequate.  Presumably Hines gets used more in the passing game like they said when they traded for him.  

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by PBF81

[Nihilarian]

I'm decently optimistic about this upcoming season mostly because of the offensive line upgrades. I'll be even more optimistic should the Bills sign D-Hop.