Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

you should realize that while that's a possibility, it's a very slim one.

 

I don't know how likely it is. I know it is possible and I would like us to do it. I would take Hopkins on the team over Ed Oliver. That's how far I would be willing to go because in recent history the teams that make it to the Super Bowl have a much better #2 weapon than Gabe Davis. I would do whatever it takes to make sure we have that baseline fulfilled.

 

Maybe Kincaid explodes onto the scene as a rookie. Maybe Cook becomes a true pass catching weapon. If neither of these things happen and we have another disappointing playoff exit because of inconsistent WR play, Beane will have to answer for that. I entered the offseason saying that the success of this offseason depended on him finding an upgrade to Davis. As of now he has not done that. I feel that we're entering the season with the same question marks in the WR group as last year, just with the added hope of Kincaid becoming a pass catching weapon.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

but also it is true that rookie TE's never really 'smash'. I saw an article highlighting kittles first year, which was 'good' I guess but only 500 yrds receiving..

 

Not sure what some fans expecting from these guys=p

That’s an interesting stat, maybe my expectations are higher knowing what’s behind Diggs lol .. I do think he can be a pretty nice rookie for us. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

huffing some copium right now in advance of Hopkins ending up in KC or miami

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

The article from Graham has league executives acting like Buffalo is helpless.  It takes 1 restructure to free up 6 mil in space. 
 

(which reportedly we have looked into with Tre White)

Make it a 2 year deal worth 12 mil per and incentives on top of that, add a few void years....and his hit in 2023 can be less than 6 million 

 

I think you need to make peace with the idea DHop likey is not going to be a Buffalo Bill.  You seem to think every vague reference, facial expression, hand signal, smoke signal, etc means we are getting Hopkins but then deny any credible person or report that suggests we are not in on him as much as you think or we may not be in on him at all anymore.  

 

If Beane was willing to do all things you think he could do, and wanted Hopkins bad enough, he would already be a Bill.  What has most likely gone on is we have made a highest and best offer and left it at that.  If DHop was good with that offer, he would already be a Bill because he stated he wants to play here with Allen multiple times.  But he has also listed a number of other teams and QB's he would like to play with too, so no surprise he is looking for the best offer amongst those teams.  And as of right now, we are not the best offer clearly.  

 

There is no way Beane feels like DHop is a "must" get player, or again, he would already be a Bill.  We rebuilt the cupboard of weapons for Allen as it is, rebuilt the OL and refreshed the run game.  At this point, it is pretty clear Beane has interest, but only to a certain extent and isn't going to go past that, or once again he would already be a Bill.  

 

I would love to add DHop, but won't panic if we don't get him either.  And at this point, my expectations are that he won't be a Bill because there is zero reason for him not to already be a Bill if we were offering him enough, which we clearly are not.  So I think the only way he comes here is if he finds the market for him to be lower than he expects and that our offer is competitive enough that he is willing to take it.  

[Blank Stare]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Pretty sure that’s why we drafted Kincaid

I get that’s their plan, but are we really comfortable risking another season of Allen’s prime years on a lotto ticket? None of us know what Kincaid will or won’t be (including Beane) at this point. You hope, but you just can’t bank on it. Particularly, with a notoriously slow to develop position like TE. Whether he’s inline or big slot. If I’m Beane, I’m going with the sure thing. If Kincaid produces year 1, then that’s icing on the cake. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

I get that’s their plan, but are we really comfortable risking another season of Allen’s prime years on a lotto ticket? None of us know what Kincaid will or won’t be (including Beane) at this point. You hope, but you just can’t bank on it. Particularly, with a notoriously slow to develop position like TE. Whether he’s inline or big slot. If I’m Beane, I’m going with the sure thing. If Kincaid produces year 1, then that’s icing on the cake. 

 

Whether WE are comfortable or not is irrelevant. It's obvious THEY are.

 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Ok moving on to a deal with I-Hop. Yum. 😋

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

It seems clear Hopkins wants $$$$ before anything else 

 

I don’t understand these guys who have already made 50 million want more than a Championship 

 

Players don't realize anything near their contract...Taxes, Agents, Managers, etc.  Shaquille O'Neal was talking about his first season where he had a $100M contract at $20M a season...he only saw $10.9M of that, and after he bought a house and stuff it was gone fast in 3 months.  

 

And then you factor in how much shorter an NFL players career is compared to other sports, how much less they make, and the contracts not being fully guaranteed and its not a surprise that a guy nearing his last significant earning opportunity in his career is going to look to get as much as he can.  Buffalo was not the only team he wanted to play for...Allen was not the only QB he wanted to play with.  He was always going to take the best contract he can get amongst the teams he is interested in playing for.  And quite frankly, he should, I don't blame him.  

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And as of right now, we are not the best offer clearly.  

 

There is no way Beane feels like DHop is a "must" get player, or again, he would already be a Bill.  We rebuilt the cupboard of weapons for Allen as it is, rebuilt the OL and refreshed the run game.  At this point, it is pretty clear Beane has interest, but only to a certain extent and isn't going to go past that, or once again he would already be a Bill.  

 

I would love to add DHop, but won't panic if we don't get him either.  And at this point, my expectations are that he won't be a Bill because there is zero reason for him not to already be a Bill if we were offering him enough, which we clearly are not.  So I think the only way he comes here is if he finds the market for him to be lower than he expects and that our offer is competitive enough that he is willing to take it.  

I don't think it is clear that the Bills aren't the best offer.  I think we might be, it's just that DHop wants more. 

 

For instance one set of rumors mentioned the Bills have offered around $10M but DHop wants OBJ money around $15M.  I actually don't blame him, I think DHop is worth more than OBJ.  But OBJ may have gotten more than he should have.

 

The odds are slim but maybe no one will offer the big contract to DHop.  In that case DHop may circle back to the Bills offer.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think it is clear that the Bills aren't the best offer.  I think we might be, it's just that DHop wants more. 

 

For instance one set of rumors mentioned the Bills have offered around $10M but DHop wants OBJ money around $15M.  I actually don't blame him, I think DHop is worth more than OBJ.  But OBJ may have gotten more than he should have.

 

The odds are slim but maybe no one will offer the big contract to DHop.  In that case DHop may circle back to the Bills offer.

 

Yeah, this is more or less what I was alluding to as well when I said the only way I can see him landing here is if he finds the market lower than he expects and what ever we have offered is competitive to any other offers he got.  So yeah, I agree with this too

[BillsFan692]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think you need to make peace with the idea DHop likey is not going to be a Buffalo Bill.  You seem to think every vague reference, facial expression, hand signal, smoke signal, etc means we are getting Hopkins but then deny any credible person or report that suggests we are not in on him as much as you think or we may not be in on him at all anymore.  

 

If Beane was willing to do all things you think he could do, and wanted Hopkins bad enough, he would already be a Bill.  What has most likely gone on is we have made a highest and best offer and left it at that.  If DHop was good with that offer, he would already be a Bill because he stated he wants to play here with Allen multiple times.  But he has also listed a number of other teams and QB's he would like to play with too, so no surprise he is looking for the best offer amongst those teams.  And as of right now, we are not the best offer clearly.  

 

There is no way Beane feels like DHop is a "must" get player, or again, he would already be a Bill.  We rebuilt the cupboard of weapons for Allen as it is, rebuilt the OL and refreshed the run game.  At this point, it is pretty clear Beane has interest, but only to a certain extent and isn't going to go past that, or once again he would already be a Bill.  

 

I would love to add DHop, but won't panic if we don't get him either.  And at this point, my expectations are that he won't be a Bill because there is zero reason for him not to already be a Bill if we were offering him enough, which we clearly are not.  So I think the only way he comes here is if he finds the market for him to be lower than he expects and that our offer is competitive enough that he is willing to take it.  

I don't see us having "rebuilt the cupboard of weapons" it's basically the same (caliber) weapons + the rookie TE.

I do agree that we have improved the OL but I may have a different opinion of that as well down the line since it's not 100% clear yet how the new group will perform and again putting too much expectation on a rookie is a bad idea

Edited June 1, 2023 by BillsFan692

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 He was always going to take the best contract he can get amongst the teams he is interested in playing for.  And quite frankly, he should, I don't blame him.

 

Yeah, I mean basically that's what anyone would do. If someone says they wouldn't they're telling you a lie. I don't know why some are surprised by this really. 

[BillsFan692]

15 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Whether WE are comfortable or not is irrelevant. It's obvious THEY are.

 

Well we're allowed to be pissy about that and sling our feces about.

[BRH]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Players don't realize anything near their contract...Taxes, Agents, Managers, etc.  Shaquille O'Neal was talking about his first season where he had a $100M contract at $20M a season...he only saw $10.9M of that, and after he bought a house and stuff it was gone fast in 3 months.  

 

And then you factor in how much shorter an NFL players career is compared to other sports, how much less they make, and the contracts not being fully guaranteed and its not a surprise that a guy nearing his last significant earning opportunity in his career is going to look to get as much as he can.  Buffalo was not the only team he wanted to play for...Allen was not the only QB he wanted to play with.  He was always going to take the best contract he can get amongst the teams he is interested in playing for.  And quite frankly, he should, I don't blame him.  

 

I totally agree with this.  I don't blame him for reaching for the bag.  I blame us for thinking he'd do it differently.  Things changed when he got cut.  When he was listing the QBs he wanted to play for, he still had a big contract that presumably his new team (with or without the Cardinals' help) would pay for.  If he could play under that contract for a contender... why not?  But he got cut, so now he's got to figure out another way to get paid.

 

I have to believe that of the teams with the cap room to add him at the salary he wants, the Patriots are the worst possible destination for all of the reasons I've already enumerated PLUS the fact that they play in an absolute hellish division where they're almost guaranteed to finish fourth.  God but that felt good to write.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

I don't see us having "rebuilt the cupboard of weapons" it's basically the same (caliber) weapons + the rookie TE.

I do agree that we have improved the OL but I may have a different opinion of that as well down the line since it's not 100% clear yet how the new group will perform and again putting too much expectation on a rookie is a bad idea

 

2023 vs 2022

Diggs is well Diggs, no change there.  

Davis is at worse the same, but with the injuries behind him has the potential to be better.  

Sherfield >>> Kumerow:  This is without question an upgrade, where Kumerow was predominantly a ST player who offered little in the pass game.

Harty >>> McKenzie:  McKenzie was a gadget player where as Harty is a true deep threat who can take the tops off defenses and stretch the field. 

Shakir 2023 >>> Shakir 2022:  By default, Shakir will have more to offer now with a year under his belt.

 

Slot WR Position:  Combo of Shakir & Kincaid >>> McKenzie/Beasley.  I cant see any scenario where we don't have better slot play this year from Shakir and Kincaid over a gadget guy who struggled and an aging WR.  

 

RB's as Receivers:  Having Hines here a whole offseason will get him involved, and Cook has a year under his belt now too.  These guys will be more established receiving weapons compared to last season.  

 

TE:  Knox is back and very good as it is, now we have Kincaid playing both TE and a big slot role, making this position even better for us.

 

So IMHO, I think our group of pass catching weapons is very nicely rebuilt compared to last year and is the best set of weapons Allen has had in his career thus far.  

 

[BillsFan692]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

2023 vs 2022

Diggs is well Diggs, no change there.  

Davis is at worse the same, but with the injuries behind him has the potential to be better.  

Sherfield >>> Kumerow:  This is without question an upgrade, where Kumerow was predominantly a ST player who offered little in the pass game.

Harty >>> McKenzie:  McKenzie was a gadget player where as Harty is a true deep threat who can take the tops off defenses and stretch the field. 

Shakir 2023 >>> Shakir 2022:  By default, Shakir will have more to offer now with a year under his belt.

 

Slot WR Position:  Combo of Shakir & Kincaid >>> McKenzie/Beasley.  I cant see any scenario where we don't have better slot play this year from Shakir and Kincaid over a gadget guy who struggled and an aging WR.  

 

RB's as Receivers:  Having Hines here a whole offseason will get him involved, and Cook has a year under his belt now too.  These guys will be more established receiving weapons compared to last season.  

 

TE:  Knox is back and very good as it is, now we have Kincaid playing both TE and a big slot role, making this position even better for us.

 

So IMHO, I think our group of pass catching weapons is very nicely rebuilt compared to last year and is the best set of weapons Allen has had in his career thus far.  

 

I just see you making a lot of optimistic assumptions here, we'll all see how it plays out but if it's a disappointing finish and we didnt' do everything possible to get this guy in our building you know there will be hell to pay

13 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

I totally agree with this.  I don't blame him for reaching for the bag.  I blame us for thinking he'd do it differently.  Things changed when he got cut.  When he was listing the QBs he wanted to play for, he still had a big contract that presumably his new team (with or without the Cardinals' help) would pay for.  If he could play under that contract for a contender... why not?  But he got cut, so now he's got to figure out another way to get paid.

 

I have to believe that of the teams with the cap room to add him at the salary he wants, the Patriots are the worst possible destination for all of the reasons I've already enumerated PLUS the fact that they play in an absolute hellish division where they're almost guaranteed to finish fourth.  God but that felt good to write.

lol shaq spent 10 million in 3 months... that is impressive!

Insane, but impressive.

Edited June 1, 2023 by BillsFan692

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know how likely it is. I know it is possible and I would like us to do it. I would take Hopkins on the team over Ed Oliver. That's how far I would be willing to go because in recent history the teams that make it to the Super Bowl have a much better #2 weapon than Gabe Davis. I would do whatever it takes to make sure we have that baseline fulfilled.

 

Maybe Kincaid explodes onto the scene as a rookie. Maybe Cook becomes a true pass catching weapon. If neither of these things happen and we have another disappointing playoff exit because of inconsistent WR play, Beane will have to answer for that. I entered the offseason saying that the success of this offseason depended on him finding an upgrade to Davis. As of now he has not done that. I feel that we're entering the season with the same question marks in the WR group as last year, just with the added hope of Kincaid becoming a pass catching weapon.

 

That's great that you'd rather have Hopkins than Oliver. But that's a totally moot issue.

 

There's two massive problems with that - 1.) There is close to a zero possibility that Brandon Beane feels that his #1 DT is worth less than another WR that he surely looks at as a luxury item at this point and 2.) Even if he did, there's also a close to zero possibility that a team is going to take him on his 1 year 10.75m guaranteed contract. It would have been difficult at any point in the Offseason and a near impossibility now.

 

In a vacuum, I see some of the points you and others are making. But the means to make that a reality for us and for Hopkins is as the reporters are saying, extremely unlikely.

 

Doubly so when you take into account as I said that after moving on from Hopkins and Beane addressing the pass catching room with a 1st and 5th Round pick in Dalton Kincaid and Justin Shorter, and signing Deonte Harty and Trent Sherfield to go along with Stefon Diggs, Dawson Knox, and Gabe Davis - Beane more than likely looks at Hopkins as a luxury and not a must have like you and other posters do.

Edited June 1, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

1.) There is close to a zero possibility that Brandon Beane feels that his #1 DT is worth less than another WR that he surely looks at as a luxury item at this point

 

If that is true, then Beane should be fired as he doesnt understand the current NFL.

 

I'm hopeful that Beane doesn't in actuality agree with your assessment.

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Whether WE are comfortable or not is irrelevant. It's obvious THEY are.

 

I appreciate you explaining this to ME like I’m five. I don’t disagree with you. That is the way it seems. However, isn’t the point of a message board to discuss what WE think as fans, including roster management/depth?
 

It is MY opinion THEY are taking a serious risk by relying on a rookie tight end to come in and give THEM the immediate and consistent production THEY need week over week. Especially, with a bankable and proven player out there looking for a team that would more likely than not make this offense incredibly dangerous by putting him out there with Diggs.

 

Get creative and get it done. Or will this be another scenario where Beane’s reluctance to pull the trigger bites him in the ass like the possible Von Miller trade a couple years ago that he balked at? Sometimes this regime is too risk averse. I’m not a fan who would blame them if I saw they were trying everything by taking a big swing on Hopkins and it didn’t pan out. Plus, if it does work out and, WE (yes, WE because we would all share in that elation) get a ring, how much would we really care what it took from future seasons to get it? FCOL, just get one in my lifetime. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Blank Stare

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

I just see you making a lot of optimistic assumptions here, we'll all see how it plays out but if it's a disappointing finish and we didnt' do everything possible to get this guy in our building you know there will be hell to pay

   No actually there won’t be hell to pay, Beane will have made his top offer, and Terry will have agreed, ( yes he is in on this too) it’s that simple.

  Only fans will whimper and moan, and some will do that for freaking years, much to most of the board members dismay…, 

 

   This thread is devolving into a repeating echo chamber, much like the other Dhop zombie thread that finally got put to death, (thanks Mods 👍) the only relevant information going forward would be one of two things, he was signed, or he was not signed. 
 

Now everyone go get a beverage of your choice and enjoy it with friends, 🍸🚬 😁👍 Doctors orders, it’s medicinal, 

 

Go Bills!!!