Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I didn’t say Sherfield was better than Brandon or Deebo, I said when they were rookies he beat them out decisively and still wasn’t given a chance to play because they just invested high draft picks in the other two.  Coaches literally told him he deserves to start but the call came down he won’t be as they want to look at the other guys who they used high picks on.  
 

My issue with the arguments you’re making is that you don’t actually know anything about these players  beyond googling stats, and that is the issue I originally brought up.  Stat sheets alone lack context.  if you actually dig into the player, their story, abilities, weaknesses, tape, etc you will know a lot more about them to make more informed opinions on who they are as a player and how they might fit into the team taking over someone else’s role who is now gone.

 

Foster got in the doghouse and didn’t see the field.  That’s why he didn’t do anything in his 2nd year.  
 

Lol, no one thought Josh Reed was a future pro bowler after his rookie year 😂😂😂 And if they did, maybe they should stop drinking while making evaluations.  That honestly might be the most ridiculous comment I’ve read in a while lol.  
 

Sherfield is without question a better WR than Kumerow.  In SF he was behind Deebo and Aiyuk…in Miami behind Hill and Waddle.  He’s found ways to contribute even behind pro bowl level players.   Kumerow can’t even get on the field on teams who needed WR help.  In GB, Rodgers loved him and he still couldn’t get on the field.  In a pass happy offense in Buffalo, he couldn’t get on the field even when there were injuries or struggles by other WRs.  So the coaches on every team Kumerow has been on don’t seem to think much of him as a WR, so I’ll trust their opinions and what I have seen from him rather than you just saying otherwise for the sake of complaining about Sherfield.  

 

 

Again.......Kumerow was the top WR for the Bills in camp in 2021.    It just doesn't mean anything that Sherfield played well in the summer of 2021 when you first noticed him.   He's averaged 190 yards per SEASON in his 5 year career.    Yes, you read that right.   He wasn't a newbie when you saw him in SF.   He played 3 years in Arizona and after a better statistical rookie year than the disappointing Khalil Shakir had last season he disappeared from offensive football altogether for the next 3 years.

 

Regarding Josh Reed...........the Bills traded a 90+ catch 1200+ yard receiver in Peerless Price and the prevailing opinion was that they would be fine because Reed was going to be a better all around receiver.    He was seen as a steal of a draft pick at the top of round 2 and that his Biletnikoff award was no fluke.   I disagreed and felt it was a dumb decision to trade Price........but in fairness Reed was great and didn't drop a catchable ball as a rookie.   And he was still tremendous at getting open after that..........but he got the yips in year two and his promising career went to sh!t.

 

So don't tell me about knowing NFL players.........you don't even know or remember players from the Bills.    That's clear from your takes in this thread.

Edited July 15, 2023 by BADOLBILZ
correction Sherfield has been trash not a 3,000 yard per season receiver

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Again.......Kumerow was the top WR for the Bills in camp in 2021.    It just doesn't mean anything that Sherfield played well in the summer of 2021 when you first noticed him.   He's averaged 190 yards per game in his 5 year career.    Yes, you read that right.   He wasn't a newbie when you saw him in SF.   He played 3 years in Arizona and after a better statistical rookie year than the disappointing Khalil Shakir had last season he disappeared from offensive football altogether for the next 3 years.

 

Regarding Josh Reed...........the Bills traded a 90+ catch 1200+ yard receiver in Peerless Price and the prevailing opinion was that they would be fine because Reed was going to be a better all around receiver.    He was seen as a steal of a draft pick at the top of round 2 and that his Biletnikoff award was no fluke.   I disagreed and felt it was a dumb decision to trade Price........but in fairness Reed was great and didn't drop a catchable ball as a rookie.   And he was still tremendous at getting open after that..........but he got the yips in year two and his promising career went to sh!t.

 

So don't tell me about knowing NFL players.........you don't even know or remember players from the Bills.    That's clear from your takes in this thread.

 

Bahaha, come on man, your Josh Reed stuff makes it impossible to take anything else seriously.  No amount of nonsense spinning can be done to paint some ridiculous picture that people thought Josh Reed was gonna be a pro bowler after his rookie year.  His 37 catch rookie year LMAO.  

 

And if anyone did, they need to stop drinking when evaluating players.  There wasn't a single moment of Josh Reeds career where anyone looked and said that dudes a future pro-bowler.  And I actually liked Reed...but I liked him for what he was, an ok possession guy, nothing more, nothing less.  

[transplantbillsfan]

I still think there's a decent chance we get Hopkins, but once Training Camp starts I think that chance drops off a cliff. Just based on how McBeane seems to be, my guess is they would want to make sure he's there for all of Camp to best foster chemistry with Josh and the team... namely Diggs.

 

So... watching this with baited breath for another week or so

[Starr Almighty]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Again.......Kumerow was the top WR for the Bills in camp in 2021.    It just doesn't mean anything that Sherfield played well in the summer of 2021 when you first noticed him.   He's averaged 190 yards per game in his 5 year career.    Yes, you read that right.   He wasn't a newbie when you saw him in SF.   He played 3 years in Arizona and after a better statistical rookie year than the disappointing Khalil Shakir had last season he disappeared from offensive football altogether for the next 3 years.

 

Regarding Josh Reed...........the Bills traded a 90+ catch 1200+ yard receiver in Peerless Price and the prevailing opinion was that they would be fine because Reed was going to be a better all around receiver.    He was seen as a steal of a draft pick at the top of round 2 and that his Biletnikoff award was no fluke.   I disagreed and felt it was a dumb decision to trade Price........but in fairness Reed was great and didn't drop a catchable ball as a rookie.   And he was still tremendous at getting open after that..........but he got the yips in year two and his promising career went to sh!t.

 

So don't tell me about knowing NFL players.........you don't even know or remember players from the Bills.    That's clear from your takes in this thread.

sounds like a beast to me. If you are correct he should give us 3230 yards this season

[BADOLBILZ]

46 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Bahaha, come on man, your Josh Reed stuff makes it impossible to take anything else seriously.  No amount of nonsense spinning can be done to paint some ridiculous picture that people thought Josh Reed was gonna be a pro bowler after his rookie year.  His 37 catch rookie year LMAO.  

 

And if anyone did, they need to stop drinking when evaluating players.  There wasn't a single moment of Josh Reeds career where anyone looked and said that dudes a future pro-bowler.  And I actually liked Reed...but I liked him for what he was, an ok possession guy, nothing more, nothing less.  

 

 

Oh the Josh Reed love was real.   Not the initial "he outplayed Eric Moulds and Peerless Price in training camp" real like you claiming Trent f@cking Sherfield should have started over Deebo and Aiyuk. 

 

But yes, fans and the Bills themselves thought Josh Reed was going to step right in and replace a 1200 yard receiver and that the Bills had wisely re-allocated capital to the defense instead.   Bills even had him running Price's deep routes.    It was dumb and I knew it was destined to fail but there were a lot of people like you around......what can I say?

 

Your lack of knowledge on Bills related topics is impressive for someone who thinks they have some kind of perspective.

[Alphadawg7]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Oh the Josh Reed love was real.   Not the initial "he outplayed Eric Moulds and Peerless Price in training camp" real like you claiming Trent f@cking Sherfield should have started over Deebo and Aiyuk. 

 

But yes, fans and the Bills themselves thought Josh Reed was going to step right in and replace a 1200 yard receiver and that the Bills had wisely re-allocated capital to the defense instead.   Bills even had him running Price's deep routes.    It was dumb and I knew it was destined to fail but there were a lot of people like you around......what can I say?

 

Your lack of knowledge on Bills related topics is impressive for someone who thinks they have some kind of perspective.

 

So let me get this straight...I am literally mocking this ridiculous notion Josh Reed was ever seen as a future pro bowler after his rookie as you claimed...while you simultaneously lump me into this make believe crowd as someone who believed he would be a pro bowler?  Bahahahahaha, wake me when you post anything that makes sense or has a rational thought for once.  

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He's averaged 190 yards per SEASON in his 5 year career.    Yes, you read that right.

 

You just love to play the "average" game to justify that Harty and Sherfield are "garbage". 

 

The "average" doesn't take into account that these are two players who were playing reserve roles behind stars most of their careers. When given opportunities because of injuries (in Harty's case) or earning them on a different team (in Sherfield's case), they flashed untapped potential.

 

In both cases, this was in their last outings, not years ago. And this is a "what have you done for me lately?" league. But you always seem to lump in the years where they were buried on the depth chart to skew an average to justify your belief that they are nothing and can't possibly be anything.

 

Deonte Harty's 2021 campaign (IR'ed early October 2022) - 570 yards as a 3rd Option

 

Trent Sherfield's 2022 campaign - 417 yards as a 3rd Option

 

You think Davis is a scrub? Beane brought in Harty and Sherfield as some insurance/competition behind him. You think they're scrubs and/or Harty is an injury risk? Beane traded up to Draft Kincaid and takes a chance on Shorter as further insurance. But then you say you can't rely on Rookies. 

 

I say that between Gabe Davis, Dalton Kincaid, Deonte Harty, Khalil Shakir, and Trent Sherfield that the odds that two of the five will step up and be solid 2nd and 3rd options behind Stefon Diggs (not to mention Dawson Knox) is way more likely than all 5 being unreliable or "garbage" and that we're in trouble and Beane hasn't done enough.

 

Given where we were on Cap space, the amount of holes we had to fill, and where we were picking in the Draft - he's done more than I thought he'd be able to do.

Edited July 16, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You just love to play the "average" game to justify that Harty and Sherfield are "garbage". 

 

The "average" doesn't take into account that these are two players who were playing reserve roles behind stars most of their careers. When given opportunities because of injuries (in Harty's case) or earning them on a different team (in Sheffield's case), they flashed untapped potential.

 

In both cases, this was in their last outings, not years ago. And this is a "what have you done for me lately?" league. But you always seem to lump in the years where they were buried on the depth chart to skew an average to justify your belief that they are nothing and can't possibly be anything.

 

Deonte Harty's 2021 campaign (IR'ed early October 2022) - 570 yards as a 3rd Option

 

Trent Sherfield's 2022 campaign - 417 yards as a 3rd Option

 

You think Davis is a scrub? Beane brings in Harty and Sherfield as some insurance/competition behind him. You think they're scrubs or Harty is an injury risk?. He trades up to Draft Kincaid and takes a chance on Shorter. You say you can't rely on Rookies. 

 

I say that between Gabe Davis, Dalton Kincaid, Deonte Harty, Khalil Shakir, and Trent Sherfield that the odds that absolutely nobody will step up and be solid 2nd and 3rd options behind Stefon Diggs (not to mention Dawson Knox) is less likely than they're all garbage and we're in trouble.

 

Hahaha yup.  He honestly doesn't know these players at all outside googling stats after which he runs to the board and boasts he knows everything about them.  He also LOVVVVVVESSSS to cherry pick obscure points, stats, or info to manipulate information for confirmation bias of his less informed opinion that is entirely based on googling stats.  He doesn't even seem to understand that Harty isn't a direct replacement of McKenzie either.  

 

Like I said in an earlier post to I think Happy...these guys don't need to come in and have career pro bowl years, nor was that what they were brought in to do.  Diggs, Davis, and Knox are going to be the biggest parts of the pass game, at least until Kincaid integrates into a primary weapon.  If Sherfield can exceed Kumerows whopping 4 receptions last year, its already an improvement.  Harty isn't being asked to replace McKenzie as the full time slot either, he is coming in as a deep threat who can take the top off the D when needed, something McKenzie absolutely sucked at.  

 

Kincaid and Shakir are going to take the lions share of the "slot" targets this year, both should easily be better than McKenzie was and they will almost certainly combine to exceed the production we got from the combo of McKenzie and Beasley later in the year.

 

If we get Hopkins, that would be SICK and I would be stoked.  But it doesn't seem to be too likely at this point, although I will never count Beane out.  But if we don't, this offense (which has been 2nd by only 5 total points to KC in scoring over the last 3 seasons) is poised to be better than it was last year with the upgrades across the OL and improvements to the weapons and RB's around Josh.  

 

Im much more concerned about Dorsey making the strides as an OC this year this team needs him to make than missing out on Hopkins. 

 

 

 

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I still think there's a decent chance we get Hopkins, but once Training Camp starts I think that chance drops off a cliff. Just based on how McBeane seems to be, my guess is they would want to make sure he's there for all of Camp to best foster chemistry with Josh and the team... namely Diggs.

 

So... watching this with baited breath for another week or so

The dude is lazy and I’m sure wholly uninterested in training camp.  He wants $$$$$$$$$$$ and that’s all.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

I say that between Gabe Davis, Dalton Kincaid, Deonte Harty, Khalil Shakir, and Trent Sherfield that the odds that two of the five will step up and be solid 2nd and 3rd options behind Stefon Diggs (not to mention Dawson Knox) is way more likely than all 5 being unreliable 

 

 

 

 

Actually the odds are that the veterans will continue to be the kind of players they've been over the course of their careers.........not that "2 of the 5" will be a lot better than their career averages.    It doesn't work that way.

 

Did you not live thru the offseason where Marv Levy and Dick Jauron signed 15 free agents who had been unable to excel anywhere in the NFL or in recent seasons and the best of the lot turned out to be the receiving inept Robert Royal?    Or Beane's 2018 class of free agents where he allocated $100M to contracts for a half dozen players who had once been solid starters but had been in steep decline or injured more recently and ALL of them turned out to be terrible signings?    There is not a law of averages associated with players who fail to excel or have injuries.    This isn't like flipping a coin.

 

But don't take my word for it..........the general consensus is that the Bills offensive weapons around Allen are mediocre.    And that's despite having Stefon Diggs and reasonable expectations for Dalton Kincaid as a rookie.   It's just not an impressive group of receivers.   I hope they play better in their continued reserve roles than their years of compiled stats indicate they are.   Maybe the Bills get lucky and defy the actual odds........but I am presuming the more likely outcome.

[BillsFanForever19]

 

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Actually the odds are that the veterans will continue to be the kind of players they've been over the course of their careers.........not that "2 of the 5" will be a lot better than their career averages.    It doesn't work that way.

 

Did you not live thru the offseason where Marv Levy and Dick Jauron signed 15 free agents who had been unable to excel anywhere in the NFL or in recent seasons and the best of the lot turned out to be the receiving inept Robert Royal?    Or Beane's 2018 class of free agents where he allocated $100M to contracts for a half dozen players who had once been solid starters but had been in steep decline or injured more recently and ALL of them turned out to be terrible signings?    There is not a law of averages associated with players who fail to excel or have injuries.    This isn't like flipping a coin.

 

But don't take my word for it..........the general consensus is that the Bills offensive weapons around Allen are mediocre.    And that's despite having Stefon Diggs and reasonable expectations for Dalton Kincaid as a rookie.   It's just not an impressive group of receivers.   I hope they play better in their continued reserve roles than their years of compiled stats indicate they are.   Maybe the Bills get lucky and defy the actual odds........but I am presuming the more likely outcome.

 

Again, you are completely dismissing each players last full seasons of football where they were given more opportunities than they ever had before and focusing on when they were Undrafted players working their way up rosters with stars in front of them.

 

And the general consensus? According to whom? You and a couple other posters on this thread? A quick Google search showed me these consensus about where the Offense ranks going into this season:

 

NFL.com - #3 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-10-offenses-in-2023-bills-chiefs-eagles-produce-highest-win-share-proj

 

Bleacher Report - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10075320-ranking-every-nfl-offense-after-the-2023-draft

 

Lines.com - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.lines.com/guides/nfl-offense-power-rankings/1615

 

Pro Football Network - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-offense-rankings/

Edited July 16, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

22 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Again, you are completely dismissing each players last full seasons of football where they were given more opportunities than they ever had before and focusing on when they were Undrafted players working their way up rosters with stars in front of them.

 

And the general consensus? According to whom? You and a couple other posters on this thread? A quick Google search showed me these consensus about where the Offense ranks going into this season:

 

NFL.com - #3 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-10-offenses-in-2023-bills-chiefs-eagles-produce-highest-win-share-proj

 

Bleacher Report - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10075320-ranking-every-nfl-offense-after-the-2023-draft

 

Lines.com - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.lines.com/guides/nfl-offense-power-rankings/1615

 

Pro Football Network - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-offense-rankings/

Those aren't offensive weapon rankings and rightfully weigh the QB heavily.  The Chiefs and Bills are #1 and #2 overall because that's where they finished last year and it's hard to argue either got worse in terms of overall personnel.  Any "offensive weapon" rankings I've read have both of us around 10th with one elite weapon (Kelce and Diggs) with average depth behind them.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Doc Brown

[LABILLBACKER]

53 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Those aren't offensive weapon rankings and rightfully weigh the QB heavily.  The Chiefs and Bills are #1 and #2 overall because that's where they finished last year and it's hard to argue either got worse in terms of overall personnel.  Any "offensive weapon" rankings I've read have both of us around 10th with one elite weapon (Kelce and Diggs) with average depth behind them.

I believe our offensive weapons are still dead even with KC (Diggs v Kelce). The area we should "on paper" slightly move ahead of KC would be the supplemental offensive players. Sherfield, Kincaid and Harty should more than replace the offensive production we got from Crowder, Kumerow,  McKenzie and Beasley. If we run these bigger power backs more effectively and use play action/ 12 personnel, this Allen led offense will be scary.

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Those aren't offensive weapon rankings and rightfully weigh the QB heavily.  The Chiefs and Bills are #1 and #2 overall because that's where they finished last year and it's hard to argue either got worse in terms of overall personnel.  Any "offensive weapon" rankings I've read have both of us around 10th with one elite weapon (Kelce and Diggs) with average depth behind them.

 

The point is that the makeup of the Offense as a whole has us almost universally as the #2 Offense in the league. If the surrounding talent around Josh and Diggs were "garbage" as the guy I quoted likes to say, we wouldn't be that high. 

[eball]

Only 158 pages?  Come on, people…DHop!

 

[CSBill]

Did we sign him yet?

[Solomon Grundy]

14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I still think there's a decent chance we get Hopkins, but once Training Camp starts I think that chance drops off a cliff. Just based on how McBeane seems to be, my guess is they would want to make sure he's there for all of Camp to best foster chemistry with Josh and the team... namely Diggs.

 

So... watching this with baited breath for another week or so

I'm thinking maybe the trail end of training camp. They're going to give the current guys on the roster the chance to prove they belong. If anyone falters then I think the Bills will swoop in. Dhop is a veteran. It wouldn't take him long at all to get acclimated with Josh

[Bill from NYC]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Did you not live thru the offseason where Marv Levy and Dick Jauron signed 15 free agents who had been unable to excel anywhere in the NFL or in recent seasons and the best of the lot turned out to be the receiving inept Robert Royal? 

 

Do you mean THE Robert Royal, the TE that other teams didn't even bother to cover when he ran patterns?  

 

Once at RWS at a tailgate I mentioned to you that Royal seemed to always be open. I thought that I was making an astute observation. You told me no, that the reason Royal was open was due to the fact that opposing teams didn't bother to cover him because his hands were just that bad. I admittedly didn't quite believe you. I had great seats at midfield in the upper deck in about the 3rd row and sure enough, there was Royal, flapping his arms all day by himself with zero coverage. When a ball was thrown his way he seemed to almost always drop it. 

 

Now, I am having a rough time believing that there were 14 free agents who were actually worse than Royal LOL! Would you happen to have a list?  

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[frostbitmic]

He won't be on the market long, we should sign him.

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

He won't be on the market long, we should sign him.

DHop eventual landing spot is both a mystery and a source of frustration for fans This waiting is as stale as the popcorn I ate waiting for this guy to make up his mind. .

 

Somebody please get it done. Brandon Beane? Meh I doubt it

 

 I Think he will sign where he will earn the largest paycheck. I will eat my crow with korean bbq sauce if I am wrong.

 

What is that old expression: D Hopkins dear *** or get off the pot POR FAVOR

 

**tapping my watch***