Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[Fleezoid]

Every time this thread moves, I click on it. I can't stop. I think I need to find a support group.

 

[Success]

No one is going to think the offense is only Diggs & Allen after this season - regardless of what happens with Hopkins.

 

I think fans are underestimating the quality of our new additions - as well as how much better the line & running game will be, which will open things up for everyone.

 

[billsfan89]

8 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Mike Tannenbaum on Get Up yesterday said it best!! Bills need to sign Hopkins. Media keeps with this narrative of Diggs wanting the ball more. Not because Diggs thinks this is the best case for the offense to succeed, but because he wants to stat pad. Put a reliable option opposite him and the Bills are winning, you wouldn't hear a peep out of Stefon. We weren't hearing this from Stefon when Beasley was playing at a high level. Stefon wants a chip!! He can taste it. Just needs a little more seasoning. Hopkins will make the offense SPICY 

 

Hopkins would be a nice addition to the offense. Even if he just adds the production of a solid WR2 it would be just what the offense needs. However, given the age, recent injury history, and Hopkins having somewhat of a malcontent nature the Bills should approach the situation prudently (which I believe they are). They should be willing to do something similar to how they did the Floyd deal, small borrowing from future years but not too much overall dead money that hampers the team's ability in future years either. 

 

But I also think not getting Hopkins isn't the end of the world either. Mainly I think that even if the offense needs more punch the Bills can always make an in-season trade. Jerry Jeudy or another "rental" WR might be available. The fact that the Bills aren't going full-court press over Hopkins is a good thing. It means either they like what they have on the roster and aren't desperate or they don't think Hopkins is that huge of a difference maker so they named their price. 

[Einstein's Dog]

23 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

If Beane feels good enough about our weapons, following the Drafting of Kincaid and Shorter and the signings of Harty and Sherfield, to not make DeAndre Hopkins a priority or pay his asking price - then there's no way he's paying for any of those guys and trading picks on top of it.

What if Beane has a $10M budget in mind?  Looks like that's not going to cut it for DHop. 

 

M Evans is on his last year of a contract that is for $13M, so after a third of the season and putting in a third round pick- the finances of Evans are looking better than DHop.  

 

Jeudy is cheap, at least this year, still on his rookie deal.

 

M Thomas signed for $10M for the year, if New Orleans is out of it early, they would want that expense off the books- which would be a third less at that point, and probably wouldn't take much draft capital.

[billsfan89]

12 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

What if Beane has a $10M budget in mind?  Looks like that's not going to cut it for DHop. 

 

M Evans is on his last year of a contract that is for $13M, so after a third of the season and putting in a third round pick- the finances of Evans are looking better than DHop.  

 

Jeudy is cheap, at least this year, still on his rookie deal.

 

M Thomas signed for $10M for the year, if New Orleans is out of it early, they would want that expense off the books- which would be a third less at that point, and probably wouldn't take much draft capital.

 

I think Evans, Jeudy, and Thomas won't be available until in-season which is fine, the Bills can roll with what they have and if needed make an in-season trade. Hopkins would be a nice add but the market for WR's that may be traded in season will be there if things are really dire. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1) No, it's not a fact...... it's an opinion based on extremely limited data.......all of which indicates the opposite of what you are presuming.   Dude was a 5th rounder for a reason.   Modest speed and quickness combined with very short arms makes him a tweener prospect.

 

2) Harty caught all of 2 passes for 13 yards last season.   He's caught a measly 64 passes in his entire career and has never had a 100 yard game.   There is not much to draw from but some youtube highlights in a stretch of the 2021 season which was about the only stretch of his career when he's been healthy.    He's been plagued by recurring hamstring inuries every year......including during offseasons even........ until last year when he was hurt all year with the turf toe!   That's why he was out of the Saints plans.......lack of availability.   McKenzie is a proven mistake factory but he has caught 141 passes........and he's actually been available most of the time.    He hasn't missed an entire season to a foot injury like Harty and Jamison Crowder both did last year.

 

3) Individual stats aside?   Jamison Crowder put up 650 yards per season prior to joining the Bills.........were Harty and Sherfield playing with lesser QB's when they were putting up their 190 per season?   Face it, these guys are journeymen in the truest sense of the word.   Crowder was not.    But like Harty his injury history followed him around despite the change of scenery.   Go figure.

 

 

 

 

One, injury history is a valid concern on Harty, no doubt about that.  But his on field ability as a WR is still better than McKenzie.  

Two, all I said is that a second year player is going to better than they were as a rookie.  I said nothing about what he will achieve other than that second year version of Shakir is better than the same rookie Shakir who had never taken an NFL snap.  That is fact.

 

Three, why do you keep bringing up Crowder to me?  I’ve never once mentioned him.  He did not take an NFL snap for the Bills in his career outside of preseason.  He has no relevancy on comparing the WRs set to play this year versus the ones who stepped on the field last year.  Crowder obviously had a better resume and was a more proven commodity, except he never took a snap here and is gone.  
 

This year, Sheffield replaces Kumerow.  That is an improvement.  
 

Harty replaces McKenzie, that is an improvement factoring in ability but has some injury risk.  
 

Shakir (2nd year) replaces Shakir (rookie) and that is an improvement just on the experience alone.  
 

We still have Kincaid, the OL upgrades, and RB upgrades factoring in as well.

 

We are in better shape on paper heading into training camp than how we closed last season against the Bengals.  
 

 

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

One, injury history is a valid concern on Harty, no doubt about that.  But his on field ability as a WR is still better than McKenzie.  

Two, all I said is that a second year player is going to better than they were as a rookie.  I said nothing about what he will achieve other than that second year version of Shakir is better than the same rookie Shakir who had never taken an NFL snap.  That is fact.

 

Three, why do you keep bringing up Crowder to me?  I’ve never once mentioned him.  He did not take an NFL snap for the Bills in his career outside of preseason.  He has no relevancy on comparing the WRs set to play this year versus the ones who stepped on the field last year.  Crowder obviously had a better resume and was a more proven commodity, except he never took a snap here and is gone.  
 

This year, Sheffield replaces Kumerow.  That is an improvement.  
 

Harty replaces McKenzie, that is an improvement factoring in ability but has some injury risk.  
 

Shakir (2nd year) replaces Shakir (rookie) and that is an improvement just on the experience alone.  
 

We still have Kincaid, the OL upgrades, and RB upgrades factoring in as well.

 

We are in better shape on paper heading into training camp than how we closed last season against the Bengals.  
 

 

 

The problem is we're counting on some of these players to be more than they've been in recent years. We have to count on Shakir to progress, count on Harty to stay healthy, count on a rookie TE to make a huge impact, and/or count on Sherfield to be more than the last WR on the depth chart. If Hopkins was here any of those things happening would be a nice bonus, not a necessity. As it stands those players are going to determine our offense's floor. If Hopkins was here they would instead determine the ceiling. A bunch of question marks with high risk but also high upside as depth is a great thing. It's counting on them to be more than depth that concerns me.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by HappyDays

[Jon in Pasadena]

28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Three, why do you keep bringing up Crowder to me?  I’ve never once mentioned him.  He did not take an NFL snap for the Bills in his career outside of preseason.  He has no relevancy on comparing the WRs set to play this year versus the ones who stepped on the field last year.  Crowder obviously had a better resume and was a more proven commodity, except he never took a snap here and is gone.  
 

According to pro football reference, Crowder took 93 offensive snaps last season for the Bills and had 6 receptions for 60 yards before he broke his foot and was done.

[Nihilarian]

Cooper Kupp Suggested As Major Bills’ Trade Target (msn.com)

 

As much as I like Stephon Diggs in what he has done as a Buffalo Bill. I can't get over the fact that he has a tantrum on the sidelines yelling at his QB during a big game. The guy had more targets than any other receiver (10 catches, 4 receptions for 35 yards) which is pretty pathetic. Allen was under heavy pressure all game and the only receiver who looked to do anything with the ball was Dawson Knox (7 targets, 5 receptions for 65 yards) Nobody played well that game.

 

Yea, I get that the guy is competitive and wants to win...as does every player on that team! No need for all this high drama at all. 

 

I also get that Diggs is a special receiver. But then, the league has a bunch of players as good who don't let their emotions get the better of them.

 

The Rams might want to unload Cooper Kupp, as others have mentioned Mike Evans, D Hop. I'm still hoping that D-Hop gives in to his desire to win an SB and signs with Buffalo. 

 

Anyway, these other young, new players deserve a chance to show what they can do with a QB like Josh Allen throwing to them. I have faith that the Buffalo offense will be fine with the passing offense this season. 

 

 

[Rico]

7 minutes ago, Jon in Pasadena said:

According to pro football reference, Crowder took 93 offensive snaps last season for the Bills and had 6 receptions for 60 yards before he broke his foot and was done.

Yeah. I would say at the very least anyone who watched the opener against the Rams last year would know that Crowder played.

[ngbills]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The problem is we're counting on some of these players to be more than they've been in recent years. We have to count on Shakir to progress, count on Harty to stay healthy, count on a rookie TE to make a huge impact, and/or count on Sherfield to be more than the last WR on the depth chart. If Hopkins was here any of those things happening would be a nice bonus, not a necessity. As it stands those players are going to determine our offense's floor. If Hopkins was here they would instead determine the ceiling. A bunch of question marks with high risk but also high upside as depth is a great thing. It's counting on them to be more than depth that concerns me.

 

It’s the normal “what we don’t know yet” is better than what we know. Next year we could just as easily hear how player x, y, z are clear upgrades over Harty, Sherfield and Shakir. Just how it tends to work. 

[JoPoy88]

10 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Cooper Kupp Suggested As Major Bills’ Trade Target (msn.com)

 

As much as I like Stephon Diggs in what he has done as a Buffalo Bill. I can't get over the fact that he has a tantrum on the sidelines yelling at his QB during a big game. The guy had more targets than any other receiver (10 catches, 4 receptions for 35 yards) which is pretty pathetic. Allen was under heavy pressure all game and the only receiver who looked to do anything with the ball was Dawson Knox (7 targets, 5 receptions for 65 yards) Nobody played well that game.

 

Yea, I get that the guy is competitive and wants to win...as does every player on that team! No need for all this high drama at all. 

 

I also get that Diggs is a special receiver. But then, the league has a bunch of players as good who don't let their emotions get the better of them.

 

The Rams might want to unload Cooper Kupp, as others have mentioned Mike Evans, D Hop. I'm still hoping that D-Hop gives in to his desire to win an SB and signs with Buffalo. 

 

Anyway, these other young, new players deserve a chance to show what they can do with a QB like Josh Allen throwing to them. I have faith that the Buffalo offense will be fine with the passing offense this season. 

 

 

are you quoting from msn or is this you? 
 

And who exactly is saying Cupp is potentially available at msn?

[BADOLBILZ]

54 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

One, injury history is a valid concern on Harty, no doubt about that.  But his on field ability as a WR is still better than McKenzie.  

Two, all I said is that a second year player is going to better than they were as a rookie.  I said nothing about what he will achieve other than that second year version of Shakir is better than the same rookie Shakir who had never taken an NFL snap.  That is fact.

 

Three, why do you keep bringing up Crowder to me?  I’ve never once mentioned him.  He did not take an NFL snap for the Bills in his career outside of preseason.  He has no relevancy on comparing the WRs set to play this year versus the ones who stepped on the field last year.  Crowder obviously had a better resume and was a more proven commodity, except he never took a snap here and is gone.  
 

This year, Sheffield replaces Kumerow.  That is an improvement.  
 

Harty replaces McKenzie, that is an improvement factoring in ability but has some injury risk.  
 

Shakir (2nd year) replaces Shakir (rookie) and that is an improvement just on the experience alone.  
 

We still have Kincaid, the OL upgrades, and RB upgrades factoring in as well.

 

We are in better shape on paper heading into training camp than how we closed last season against the Bengals.  
 

 

 

What you mean is that injury history is a HUGE concern with Harty.

 

He had like a dozen hamstring injuries and re-aggrivations in his brief career before his turf-toe/surgery lost season.   Like I said,  one offseason he reportedly re-aggrivated his bad hammy 3 times.  He's done more nursing than a nurse.   And missed 24 of the last 50 games in their entirety.  Many others he's been limited.   I honestly don't think you were aware of how brittle this dude has been.   If he plays in 9 games this year and finishes the season on the IR is that going to be good?   Because that's who he's been.

 

I mention Crowder as both a very recent frame of reference for unrealistic expectations for an offseason flyer signing and because he was also a guy who fans like you presumed was just suddenly going to be past his injuries.     He was not.

 

To this point Sherfield = Kumerow 2.0.   We hope he's better but there were moments when it looked like Kumerow was going to break out too.   Sherfield's propensity for gaffe's like "butt punt" and that killer dropped TD pass in the playoffs versus Buffalo is concerning.  

 

  

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[Solomon Grundy]

22 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Cooper Kupp Suggested As Major Bills’ Trade Target (msn.com)

 

As much as I like Stephon Diggs in what he has done as a Buffalo Bill. I can't get over the fact that he has a tantrum on the sidelines yelling at his QB during a big game. The guy had more targets than any other receiver (10 catches, 4 receptions for 35 yards) which is pretty pathetic. Allen was under heavy pressure all game and the only receiver who looked to do anything with the ball was Dawson Knox (7 targets, 5 receptions for 65 yards) Nobody played well that game.

 

Yea, I get that the guy is competitive and wants to win...as does every player on that team! No need for all this high drama at all. 

 

I also get that Diggs is a special receiver. But then, the league has a bunch of players as good who don't let their emotions get the better of them.

 

The Rams might want to unload Cooper Kupp, as others have mentioned Mike Evans, D Hop. I'm still hoping that D-Hop gives in to his desire to win an SB and signs with Buffalo. 

 

Anyway, these other young, new players deserve a chance to show what they can do with a QB like Josh Allen throwing to them. I have faith that the Buffalo offense will be fine with the passing offense this season. 

 

 

I'll stick with Diggs.... Thank you very much

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This is kind of the crux of the issue tho

 

It's true that the offense can afford not to have Hopkins...because we rely on Allen to do everything which may prove to be unsustainable

 

Similarly the defense, always needing a ton of resources, could reasonably have less capital allocation and then take a step back...but if the offense moves forward concurrently imo that's a win overall

 

I mean if you add Hopkins, its still all on Josh to read the defenses and make the plays to get him the ball.  

 

I honestly don't think we will need to rely on Allen to do everything this year, with or without Hopkins.  The biggest issue last year was OL protection, that has been upgraded as has the RB's and weapons around Josh.  

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I mean if you add Hopkins, its still all on Josh to read the defenses and make the plays to get him the ball.  

 

I honestly don't think we will need to rely on Allen to do everything this year, with or without Hopkins.  The biggest issue last year was OL protection, that has been upgraded as has the RB's and weapons around Josh.  

I guess

 

i do feel like they just don't want to spend on offense for whatever reason

 

when i mean 'all on Allen' i'm more saying dodge the rush, then stick the ball in someone's facemask who can't get open/catch...Hopkins doesn't have those limitations

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

What you mean is that injury history is a HUGE concern with Harty.

 

He had like a dozen hamstring injuries and re-aggrivations in his brief career before his turf-toe/surgery lost season.   Like I said,  one offseason he reportedly re-aggrivated his bad hammy 3 times.  He's done more nursing than a nurse.   And missed 24 of the last 50 games in their entirety.  Many others he's been limited.   I honestly don't think you were aware of how brittle this dude has been.   If he plays in 9 games this year and finishes the season on the IR is that going to be good?   Because that's who he's been.

 

I mention Crowder as both a very recent frame of reference for unrealistic expectations for an offseason flyer signing and because he was also a guy who fans like you presumed was just suddenly going to be past his injuries.     He was not.

 

To this point Sherfield = Kumerow 2.0.   We hope he's better but there were moments when it looked like Kumerow was going to break out too.   Sherfield's propensity for gaffe's like "butt punt" and that killer dropped TD pass in the playoffs versus Buffalo is concerning.  

 

  

 

 

 

Like I said, injury's with him are a valid concern. I will add that other players have had injury issues before coming to Buffalo and the excellent facilities and staff have helped some of them lessen the frequency.  Gaines, Brown, Johnson, Poyer, etc to name a few.  No guarantees of course, but Harty is still a better football player.  

 

Here you go again, lumping me into Crowder stuff.  Go check my history, during training camp I said Crowder is the best slot guy on the roster in camp last year IF he can stay healthy.  I had no preconceived notions that he was going to for sure stay healthy.  And in fact, if you go back to preseason, I was very anti-McKenzie as a starter and thought Shakir would emerge as the starter by end of season because I felt an injury to Crowder at some point would open up that door.

 

Big difference though, is Harty is not coming in to have a heavy role like a starting slot WR that they hoped Crowder could handle.  So if Harty goes down, its not the end of the world for the offense like when Crowder got hurt and we got stuck with McKenzie as the starter by default who sucked.  

 

Hard disagree on Sherfield = Kumerow 2.0.  I have followed this kid since he was in SF, he flat out beat out Brandon Aiyuk and Deebo by outplaying them both all camp and preseason, but then was told he wouldn't start or play much because they had too much invested in those other guys and they wanted to see them play.  Not saying Sherfield is some future pro-bowler, but Kumerow is not a regular contributor in the NFL as a WR.

 

You tend to cherry pick a play or two you don't like and then project that over a players whole career.  I have seen Diggs drop TD passes too, but it didn't define him, so why do you focus so hard on one or two plays as if those completely define that player and ignore the other attributes they bring to the table?

 

 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Success said:

No one is going to think the offense is only Diggs & Allen after this season - regardless of what happens with Hopkins.

 

I think fans are underestimating the quality of our new additions - as well as how much better the line & running game will be, which will open things up for everyone.

 

Starting this season I can see Dorsey opening up a can of TE whoop ass.  And if I'm Josh, I'm using Knox & Kincaid as my number 2 & 3 targets.  Whatever we get from Davis, Harty & Sherfield will just be gravy.

Edited July 15, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Alphadawg7]

45 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I guess

 

i do feel like they just don't want to spend on offense for whatever reason

 

when i mean 'all on Allen' i'm more saying dodge the rush, then stick the ball in someone's facemask who can't get open/catch...Hopkins doesn't have those limitations

 

Not sure why you say we dont want to spend on offense...is it just because they haven't signed Hopkins?  

 

We paid Allen, Diggs, and Knox very good money.  They spent a lot (a first and 4th) just to get Diggs.  They just used our first round pick on a receiving weapon at TE and our 2nd round pick on an OG.  They spent money on the OL, more WR's, and then added 2 more accomplished RB's to compliment Cook and Hines. 

 

I mean most teams don't go out and pay top WR money to have 2 elite WR's, especially teams with big QB contracts.  Teams like Cincy have them because they are on rookie contracts and so is their QB.  Chargers did it because their QB was on a rookie deal and Allen will gone by the time they pay Justin.  Miami paid Hill cuz Tua was on a rookie deal and so is Waddle.  

 

I mean no disrespect at all, but this notion we arent spending or investing in the offense isn't really accurate.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

The problem is we're counting on some of these players to be more than they've been in recent years. We have to count on Shakir to progress, count on Harty to stay healthy, count on a rookie TE to make a huge impact, and/or count on Sherfield to be more than the last WR on the depth chart. If Hopkins was here any of those things happening would be a nice bonus, not a necessity. As it stands those players are going to determine our offense's floor. If Hopkins was here they would instead determine the ceiling. A bunch of question marks with high risk but also high upside as depth is a great thing. It's counting on them to be more than depth that concerns me.

 

 

I don't disagree that Hopkins would do all that, as I have stated many times over, I would love to get Hopkins here.  All I am saying is that I feel better about the offense around Josh right now than I did about the offense around him in the Bengals game.  

 

And, to be honest, I am not counting on them to be much more than they have been.  Diggs, Davis, and Knox are still here, they are going to have the biggest roles in this offense still.  Sherfield doesn't have to be more than he has been in the past, he just has to be more than Kumerow which isn't much.  Harty doesn't even have to give us more than McKenzie, because the slot position is gonna be handled by Shakir, Kincaid, and probably some Harty.  So Harty doesn't have to do much more than he has.  

 

You see that is the point...this notion they have to be a lot more than they have or the rookie has to have some huge season is just the wrong way to look at it.  We need to be collectively better as an offense, and that means better OL protection, getting more out of our RB's, as well as mixing in the new with the old in terms of the weapons around Josh.  

 

That is why I am not concerned on if we get Hopkins or not, there is enough talent on this football team to play as a unit on the field for this offense to once again be the #1 offense in the NFL.  Over the last 3 seasons, this offense is the 2nd highest scoring offense in the NFL to KC by only 5 total points.  Not to mention we are 2-1 against them the last 2 seasons and should be 3-0 if not for an inept defensive meltdown in the playoffs.  

 

Meanwhile, our defense has literally pooped the bed in every post season loss we have had in the Allen era. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7