Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

And last year heading into the season we would have taken McKenzie over all of them. Difference is McKenzie finally got his shot and failed and the others are looking for that opportunity. No one knows if it’s an upgrade or not yet. 

Not Harty 

Harty had 570 yards on 30 rec for 15.7 ypc

 

McKenzie last year had 42 rec for 423 10.1 ypc yards with a far far superior QB

 

Sherfield had 30 rec 417 yards for 13.7 ypc

 

Shakir had 10 rec 161 16.1 ypc

 

Big upgrades. Especially in the yac department 

Edited June 21, 2023 by JerseyBills

[JerseyBills]

36 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

Harty 21, injured in 22 had 570 yards on 30 rec for 15.7 ypc

 

McKenzie last year had 42 rec for 423 10.1 ypc yards with a far far superior QB

 

Sherfield had 30 rec 417 yards for 13.7 ypc

 

Shakir had 10 rec 161 16.1 ypc

 

Big upgrades. Especially in the yac department 

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

 

Unfortunately, the stats are not really going to answer this question for anyone, they are not apples to apples kind of situations.  McKenzie played on the 2nd highest scoring offense in the NFL over the past 3 years, and only 2nd to KC by a total of 5 points.  So statistically, he should have more stats because he will have more opportunities playing in this offense, and more importantly playing with Josh.  

 

So instead, here is how I would look at it.  Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir are essentially replacing Kumerow, McKenzie and rookie Shakir who was not used a lot.

 

Kumerow:  Sherfield is significantly better WR than Kumerow in terms to what they can give us on the field as a WR.  And that is not much of a surprise given Kumerow was here for his ST ability, not because he was significant contributor at his position on the field as a WR.  So not a lot of reasoning or explaining needs to go into that consideration.

 

McKenzie:  Harty isn't on his own replacing McKenzie (last years version of McKenzie), that is a combo deal of Shakir and Harty.  In fact, Harty is more or less replacing McKenzie's more suited role as a reserve WR that has gadget or niche value.  By all accounts, Shakir is entering camp as the starting slot WR, and is expected to enter week 1 that way as well.  McKenzie did not do well in that roll last year, and his roll on this team this year would have been more like his previous role of a gadget or creative use type player.  That is where Harty comes in, but Harty brings a lot more to the table as an actual talent at WR than McKenzie did.

 

The only thing McKenzie really did well was run fast, but unfortunately, his weaknesses as an actual WR limited the use of that speed effectively to shorter areas.  He does not track the long ball well, so despite his speed he was never a down field threat or a guy who could take the top off the defense.  He also had unreliable hands, inconsistent and even sloppy at times route runner, was not physical so struggled with contested catches or catching in traffic and could not fight for yards once he had the ball.  More importantly, he was not very cerebral on the field either, which is important when playing the short to mid field with Allen at QB and the reliance on receivers improvising a lot.  

 

Now enter Harty...he is a more polished route runner and a true deep threat who can take the top off the D or take it to the house at any given moment.  He provides a lot more pressure on the defense when on the field.  For all Mackenzie's speed, he wasn't any more of a deep threat than older and slower Beasley was, and provided none of the short to mid field talent or value Beasley did either.  With Harty, he has the speed and agility to handle any gadget play they would have rolled out for McKenzie, and probably better given he is a better route runner, but he also is a major downfield threat anytime he is on the field with Josh Allens arm.  

 

So in my personal opinion, I think the upgrades this year are actually noticeably better, maybe even significant when you look at the 3 guys (Sherfield, Shakir, and Harty) that are essentially replacing 3 guys (Kumerow, McKenzie, and seldom used rookie Shakir).  Although,  Harty does need to stay healthy too, that is a legit concern with his history and size.  The good news is, Shakir is really replacing the role McKenzie had last year, so if Harty does get hurt, we aren't down a significant starter.  

 

 

[34-78-83]

I'm just laughing that we (or some) decided that JUJU was a good WR now. Carry on.

[PatsFanNH]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

The language is in the original contract.

You are ASSUMING this. I also doubt it because then it becomes Vague and any vagueness Benefits the party that doesn’t write the contract up.  So there is zero chance that it is written into the contract. Mind you all sides realize it can renegotiate to change the terms. When it’s beneficial to the player it is easy and fast.. Also if it was as easy as people here think they would do it almost all the time.. it isn’t most contracts never change threw the life of the contract in the NFL.. 

 

Also how did a DHop thread turn into a thread about contracts??? Lol

Edited June 21, 2023 by PatsFanNH

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Has this been posted?🤔

 

Plus Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are all upgrades over McKenzie who was our #3 last year. Kincaid should be a playmaker from day 1 as well. I like our weapons alot. Not wise to sign another 30+ yo WR unless it was a 1 or even 2 yr deal and I'm sure he wants 3-5 years at top dollar.  Just wouldn't be a smart move imo for the long run

ML football has terrible takes and I would not place much faith or waste time with much of what comes from that twitter handle. 

 

You should see their qb rankings...lol

[MJS]

38 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You are ASSUMING this. I also doubt it because then it becomes Vague and any vagueness Benefits the party that doesn’t write the contract up.  So there is zero chance that it is written into the contract. Mind you all sides realize it can renegotiate to change the terms. When it’s beneficial to the player it is easy and fast.. Also if it was as easy as people here think they would do it almost all the time.. it isn’t most contracts never change threw the life of the contract in the NFL.. 

 

Also how did a DHop thread turn into a thread about contracts??? Lol

Ok. You are just making it clear you don't know how it works.

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

I'm just laughing that we (or some) decided that JUJU was a good WR now. Carry on.

When was Juju not a good reciever ? I don’t get it 

[34-78-83]

6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

When was Juju not a good reciever ? I don’t get it 

He's always been very inconsistent at getting open and in the end is average as WR's go. Steeler fans were never sold on him as a whole either. Certainly more frustration than joy with him. Limited speed, explosiveness and dedication to the game at times. Pretty dang good hands though! Pretty much defines average. a middle of the pack #2.

 

If we're looking to set expectations of the Bills #2 (Whom I think will be Kincaid before too terribly long) I would hope we can find a better example. That's all.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Not Harty 

Harty had 570 yards on 30 rec for 15.7 ypc

 

McKenzie last year had 42 rec for 423 10.1 ypc yards with a far far superior QB

 

Sherfield had 30 rec 417 yards for 13.7 ypc

 

Shakir had 10 rec 161 16.1 ypc

 

Big upgrades. Especially in the yac department 

McKenzie might have had the better QB but Sherfield had two of the fastest guys in football soaking up all the attention from opposing defences. Seems like wash to me. 
 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

 

Sherfield also had 14 fewer targets.  Primarily because he had 2 really good WRs on the field at the same time.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

McKenzie might have had the better QB but Sherfield had two of the fastest guys in football soaking up all the attention from opposing defences. Seems like wash to me. 
 

I guess a wash. McKenzie also had mainly 1 v 1 matchups. 

 

I think Sherfield will be a decent upgrade.  I think Harty could be special.  John Brown type #s. Ppl forget Brown went for over 1k yards 6 TDs in 2019. Could see Harty go for 800 and 8 TDs , because we have way more weapons now compared to 19. Also, Josh is light years better than he was in 19

Edited June 21, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Don Otreply]

By the way, any word on any team signing Hopkins?  Haven’t seen any press, It appears there isn’t much demand for him at his asking price. 

[BananaB]

46 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I guess a wash. McKenzie also had mainly 1 v 1 matchups. 

 

I think Sherfield will be a decent upgrade.  I think Harty could be special.  John Brown type #s. Ppl forget Brown went for over 1k yards 6 TDs in 2019. Could see Harty go for 800 and 8 TDs , because we have way more weapons now compared to 19. Also, Josh is light years better than he was in 19

Brown was the #1 at the time and Hardy will likely be #4 or 5…. Goodluck with that

 

I see him more of a gadget player like McKenzie was before Beas left. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shakir makes a bigger impact then both hardy and Sherfield. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by BananaB

[Gregg]

37 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

By the way, any word on any team signing Hopkins?  Haven’t seen any press, It appears there isn’t much demand for him at his asking price. 

 

Last I saw was the Pats were the favorites but nothing since. Maybe Beane comes back to this and gets him at a reasonable price. 

[JerseyBills]

47 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Brown was the #1 at the time and Hardy will likely be #4 or 5…. Goodluck with that

 

I see him more of a gadget player like McKenzie was before Beas left. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shakir makes a bigger impact then both hardy and Sherfield. 

I see him as a borderline #2"

 

I feel he'll definitely take reps away from Davis on the outside.  Dude was targeted by multiple teams and chose Buf. He's going to make a name for himself here 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Sherfield also had 14 fewer targets.  Primarily because he had 2 really good WRs on the field at the same time.

I’m telling you, Sherfield could impress the fact that he is fast and a blocking receiver that played special teams that’s a billsy type of player there

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Last I saw was the Pats were the favorites but nothing since. Maybe Beane comes back to this and gets him at a reasonable price. 

That would be a coup if it happens, 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

It seems to me we are trying to be closer to the Chiefs last year who had crazy pass catching depth. Only

thing is their 1B Juju did have more output than any of our guys will individually. 

 

We might not have that 1B, but our top 4 pass catching targets figure to be about as deep as can be absent Hopkins with Diggs as 1A, and any order of Davis, Knox, and Kincaid platooning as 1B. One or more of of Cook, Harty, Sherfield, Shakir, and Morris to round out the group against CB3-4s and LBs. Our pass catching depth is pretty crazy.
 

Would be great for Cook to keep up his rushing success and add something close to a McKinnon receiving output.

[Goin Breakdown]

11 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

It seems to me we are trying to be closer to the Chiefs last year who had crazy pass catching depth. Only

thing is their 1B Juju did have more output than any of our guys will individually. 

 

We might not have that 1B, but our top 4 pass catching targets figure to be about as deep as can be absent Hopkins with Diggs as 1A, and any order of Davis, Knox, and Kincaid platooning as 1B. One or more of of Cook, Harty, Sherfield, Shakir, and Morris to round out the group against CB3-4s and LBs. Our pass catching depth is pretty crazy.
 

Would be great for Cook to keep up his rushing success and add something close to a McKinnon receiving output.

This is kind of a point that I heard on the radio. The Bills seem to be one step behind the chiefs because they are mimicking. Idk if I subscribe to that or not but it's a thought. They do call it a copy cat league.