Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think you're greatly downplaying how much of a reduction he'd have if Hopkins were on the field at the same time, as well as Kincaid in the slot. Quite a big difference between Davis and McKenzie as far as talent goes. 

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used.

Yes.  The national talk all off-season was which WR needy NFL team was going to win the race to sign Deonte Harty.

[BillsFanForever19]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yes.  The national talk all off-season was which WR needy NFL team was going to win the race to sign Deonte Harty.

 

That doesn't matter nor discount the fact that Beane targeted him on Day 1 of FA and gave him a multi year deal that was worth more than the 1 year, league minimum that he signed most others for.

 

You might not think anything of the signing. But Beane made him a priority. He's not a break glass in case of emergency depth guy. He will be used.

Edited June 19, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That doesn't matter nor discount the fact that Beane targeted him on Day 1 of FA and paid him more than the 1 year, league minimum than he signed most everyone else for.

 

You might not think anything of the signing. But Beane made him a priority. 

He did but there's no evidence he outbid other teams like you said he did.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He did but there's no evidence he outbid other teams like you said he did.

 

The fact that he paid him a 2 year, 9.5 million dollar deal with a 3 million bonus, 5.25 guaranteed and made him more expensive to cut than to keep in Year 1 says that.

 

Beane doesn't bid against himself. If Harty didn't have a market, he would have been signed for the minimum peanuts like most of the veterans we signed this offseason and wouldn't have happened on Day 1.

Edited June 19, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The fact that he paid him a 2 year, 9.5 million dollar deal with a 3 million bonus, 5.25 guaranteed and made him more expensive to cut than to keep in Year 1 says that.

 

Beane doesn't bid against himself. If Harty didn't have a market, he would have been signed for the minimum peanuts like most of the veterans we signed this offseason and wouldn't have happened on Day 1.

It shows they really wanted him.  It doesn't show other teams did.  They made an educated guess which is often the case at the start of free agency for any team.

[Paul Costa]

19 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It shows they really wanted him.  It doesn't show other teams did.  They made an educated guess which is often the case at the start of free agency for any team.

I disagree with this. Beane said he had a lot of teams competing against him for Harty’s services. You can not believe Beane that’s your prerogative. No reason for Beane to lie about a robust market for Harty. Don’t see your point. He’s tiny and if he doesn’t get hurt will be a valuable weapon the next couple of years. He’ll really open up things for others also. To me he’s going to be what we wanted McKenzie to be. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Paul Costa

[Paul Costa]

45 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The fact that he paid him a 2 year, 9.5 million dollar deal with a 3 million bonus, 5.25 guaranteed and made him more expensive to cut than to keep in Year 1 says that.

 

Beane doesn't bid against himself. If Harty didn't have a market, he would have been signed for the minimum peanuts like most of the veterans we signed this offseason and wouldn't have happened on Day 1.

Excellent point

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Except he’s gotten hurt every year… it’s equivalent to the Howard/Crowder signing of a year ago. A flyer/hope for the best type of signing, but not someone who should be relied upon given his history…

To the point from BFF19 his contract says he’s more than just a flyer. His contract is more than Howard & Crowder combined 

[eball]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What are you not understanding? 
 

Because Beane made him a priority signing means he’s some sort of big signing? Beane made signing Rodger Saffold, OJ Howard, and Jameson Crowder priorities too. How’d that work out?… and all 3 of those guys have more of an NFL pedigree than Harty as well. 

 

He said “priority.”  He didn’t say “big.”  Seems like you’re picking a fight just to be obstinate.

 

It’s also disingenuous to include Crowder on that list.  But for an injury he would almost certainly have contributed.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think you're greatly downplaying how much of a reduction he'd have if Hopkins were on the field at the same time, as well as Kincaid in the slot. Quite a big difference between Davis and McKenzie as far as talent goes. 

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used.

 

I would think it'd be a bit less than you're assuming here in amount of reduction he'd have. I'd say it probably wouldn't get to point of a major issue (especially scoring a lot).

 

And have heard quite often it's no big deal to Diggs because he just wants to win 

[BillsFanForever19]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What are you not understanding? 
 

Because Beane made him a priority signing means he’s some sort of big signing? Beane made signing Rodger Saffold, OJ Howard, and Jameson Crowder priorities too. How’d that work out?… and all 3 of those guys have more of an NFL pedigree than Harty as well. 
 

For some reason you think because Beane gave Harty a decent contract it somehow means he’s a good NFL WR… his history does not suggest ANY of that.

 

All of those guys were single year deals. Rodger Saffold started every game for us in that year. Jamison Crowder was lost for the year in the middle of Game 4.

 

OJ Howard was signed to a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. Not near the investment he put into Harty. And you like to constantly point to the release of Howard like it's a normal thing that happens all the time. It wasn't. That was a shock.

 

I'm not saying Harty will or won't be a star for us. What I'm saying is the kind of investment Beane made wouldn't have been made if he had no intention of having a role for him. He didn't target him on Day 1 with all the options available to him thinking "this is just a depth signing and I need to Draft a guy in the 1st and sign a Top 10 WR like Hopkins too".

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[StHustle]

Here’s an idea….How about Bills Mafia creates a GoFundMe for Hopkins. A million of us can all put in $10 and raise enough to supplement a low contract offer from Beane. We can call it a “Welcome to Buffalo” gift if he decides to move here by the end of August *wink wink

 

If he isn’t living in Buffalo by then we all get refunds.

 

Im joking but I’m not. Would be a creative way to sign a player for a low cap hit that would likely get banned after we do it.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not picking a fight,  but this is the same thing fans did last year when talking about the WR corps… and were proven very wrong… yea…. who could’ve predicted a Crowder injury considering his most recent history? 😅

 

This team needs a #2 WR… not some depth signings with questionable NFL pedigrees…. They are relying on inconsistent Davis to really improve and rookie Kincaid to take the league by storm. I’m dubious, but tis the season for fans to overrate the off-season acquisitions.🍻

 

I understand where you're coming from here and see your point. But how do you feel about the WR position now compared to last season? Do you feel at least a small improvement or about the same or worse?

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used.

 

I like the Harty signing. His potential is tantalizing. But it is a high upside/high downside signing. His size combined with his injury history makes it very questionable that he will be a consistent contributor this year. If he happens to stay healthy all year it could be a home run signing. I'm just not counting on it. Plus we have had issues with Allen throwing the ball to smurfs in windy snowy conditions. I expect Harty to be more of a regular season contributor than a playoff contributor even in a best case scenario.

 

The point is Harty does nothing to solve the biggest problem in our passing offense last year, which was Davis getting the #2 target share. And I don't think Beane signed him expecting him to solve that problem. Every time Beane has talked about Hopkins publicly he has seemed almost exasperated. I think he was counting on Hopkins solving our #2 WR problem and is frustrated that they can't get on the same page with the contract. Beane knows it is a weakness but I'm sure he appreciates some fans doing their best to pretend it isn't.

[Billschinatown]

49 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

All of those guys were single year deals. Rodger Saffold started every game for us in that year. Jamison Crowder was lost for the year in the middle of Game 4.

 

OJ Howard was signed to a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. Not near the investment he put into Harty. And you like to constantly point to the release of Howard like it's a normal thing that happens all the time. It wasn't. That was a shock.

 

I'm not saying Harty will or won't be a star for us. What I'm saying is the kind of investment Beane made wouldn't have been made if he had no intention of having a role for him. He didn't target him on Day 1 with all the options available to him thinking "this is just a depth signing and I need to Draft a guy in the 1st and sign a Top 10 WR like Hopkins too".

 

 

I'll say it. He will be a star.

3 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that this is Damar’s award this year. 
 

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/comeback-player-of-the-year/

I honestly think no chance. The thing  is....he was like serviceable at best when he played. He just really hit hard; but that was about it. 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

Here’s an idea….How about Bills Mafia creates a GoFundMe for Hopkins. A million of us can all put in $10 and raise enough to supplement a low contract offer from Beane. We can call it a “Welcome to Buffalo” gift if he decides to move here by the end of August *wink wink

 

If he isn’t living in Buffalo by then we all get refunds.

 

Im joking but I’m not. Would be a creative way to sign a player for a low cap hit that would likely get banned after we do it.

 

 

 

The Salary Cap implications are the main issue with getting the contract done. If it didn't exist, Oil Baron Pegula would have no problem coming up with that money.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

The Salary Cap implications are the main issue with getting the contract done. If it didn't exist, Oil Baron Pegula would have no problem coming up with that money.

 

The salary cap can be massaged.  Restructure someone and give Hopkins an OBJ deal.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

All of those guys were single year deals. Rodger Saffold started every game for us in that year. Jamison Crowder was lost for the year in the middle of Game 4.

 

OJ Howard was signed to a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. Not near the investment he put into Harty. And you like to constantly point to the release of Howard like it's a normal thing that happens all the time. It wasn't. That was a shock.

 

I'm not saying Harty will or won't be a star for us. What I'm saying is the kind of investment Beane made wouldn't have been made if he had no intention of having a role for him. He didn't target him on Day 1 with all the options available to him thinking "this is just a depth signing and I need to Draft a guy in the 1st and sign a Top 10 WR like Hopkins too".

 

 

The injury history isnt as significant as it appears strictly on paper. Will it work out? Hopefully, but if you dig below surface of injuries, they arent anywhere near as significant as posters writing 'hes played in x of y games stats.'

 

That said, Im 100% on board with make Hop Happen!

Edited June 20, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think you're greatly downplaying how much of a reduction he'd have if Hopkins were on the field at the same time, as well as Kincaid in the slot. Quite a big difference between Davis and McKenzie as far as talent goes. 

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used. And Davis isn't going to go from Starter to being barely used at all either. 

 

The reduction would be noticable and he's already reportedly unhappy with what it was last season.

I sincerely dont think hed have any problem with it at all. Dude could have less targets /game, and end up with 20ypg more and a few extra tuddies. Plus the time frame he was pissed is when the offense was sputtering and we looked sloppy. If we were cranking out TDs non-stop, I dont think wed hear a peep.

 

The only real risk IMO, is if somehow DHOP didnt mend well with the Off, Diggs targets look similar, and offense sputters like it did again. Seems HIGHLYYYYY unlikely to happen IMO. Diggs can no longer be double teamed or fully gameplanned out. 

[BillsFanForever19]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The salary cap can be massaged.  Restructure someone and give Hopkins an OBJ deal.

 

The OBJ deal includes cap hits stretched out 3 years after his contract expires. May not be a concern to you, but if it wasn't to Beane, he'd have done it already. Probably would have thrown a 6th or 7th Arizona's way to simply Trade for him.

 

And actually, Hopkins himself doesn't seem interested in that. According to Tom Pelissero on the Rich Eisen show some weeks ago - Hopkins wasn't open to reworking his deal to involve something that didn't pay him up front and that's why they couldn't get a deal done:

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I like the Harty signing. His potential is tantalizing. But it is a high upside/high downside signing. His size combined with his injury history makes it very questionable that he will be a consistent contributor this year. If he happens to stay healthy all year it could be a home run signing. I'm just not counting on it. Plus we have had issues with Allen throwing the ball to smurfs in windy snowy conditions. I expect Harty to be more of a regular season contributor than a playoff contributor even in a best case scenario.

 

The point is Harty does nothing to solve the biggest problem in our passing offense last year, which was Davis getting the #2 target share. And I don't think Beane signed him expecting him to solve that problem. Every time Beane has talked about Hopkins publicly he has seemed almost exasperated. I think he was counting on Hopkins solving our #2 WR problem and is frustrated that they can't get on the same page with the contract. Beane knows it is a weakness but I'm sure he appreciates some fans doing their best to pretend it isn't.

I’d buy “low floor” as he might not do much, but “high downside” isn’t my favorite as there’s not a ton of downside even if he flops