Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[GoBills808]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Personally, I think people took that too literally.  I mean by the very fact it was a football player at a mandatory camp unhappy with something that was related to himself and the team in some capacity means it is in some capacity a football related issue.  

 

Josh stating it wasn't football related I think had more to do with trying to calm all media hoopla that Diggs didn't want to be in Buffalo, Bills may need to trade him etc.  But everything credible that came out seemed it wasn't that serious, and had more to do with some things between him and most likely the offensive coaches.  Things like communication issues, concerns with how he was used second half of last year, etc.  

 

Either way, Josh has professed his love for Diggs many times now, and Diggs has shown that love back publicly too.  Whatever it was, it seems to be in the past and the relationship between Allen and Diggs seems to be just fine.  

 

 

Dawkins concurs

 https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/dion-dawkins-on-stefon-diggs-theres-nothing-to-be-worried-about

 

Just wish someone had clued McDermott in 😂😂

[The Red King]

Did we sign Ertz yet?

[balln]

7 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Did we sign Ertz yet?

What about OBJ?

[Patrick Duffy]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Either way, Josh has professed his love for Diggs many times now, and Diggs has shown that love back publicly too.  Whatever it was, it seems to be in the past and the relationship between Allen and Diggs seems to be just fine.

 

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Personally, I think people took that too literally.  I mean by the very fact it was a football player at a mandatory camp unhappy with something that was related to himself and the team in some capacity means it is in some capacity a football related issue.

 

First I don't see why some ppl (not talking about you) can't let the Josh/Diggs thing go. Whatever it was it's been over with a while ago. Anyways, I agree they are just fine as they have always been.

 

I think some want to try to find something that's not there and end up creating their own. 

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't really buy that the Bills still think Gabe is a good enough #2 option.   I think some fans confuse the fact that they "like" Gabe with this idea that they think he's a stud.   KC paid MVS $10M+ aav to be their 3rd option in the passing game.    You can like a player and be willing to pay 8 figures per season without necessarily thinking they are a #1 or #2 option.   

 

I think they DID think Gabe was a tremendous WR2 waiting to break out at this point last offseason..........and that's why they didn't pursue a top 2 WR......but I think they know better now.    They aren't blind to his flaws.   They were eye-balling WR talent in round 1 and did pursue Hopkins this offseason.........and if 1 of those pursuits doesn't say plenty about what they think of Gabe as WR2 then the other does.

 

They more than eyeballed talent in Round 1. They traded up to Draft Dalton Kincaid, a TE in name only who appeared to be their first choice.

Edited July 12, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm getting tired of Beane's recurring line - "if someone wants to come here and chase a Super Bowl, we would love to have them." The implication being that players like OBJ and Hopkins should accept less than they're worth because our organization is oh so great. It's an excuse that insults both the players and the fans. Von Miller didn't accept a discount. Beane knows what every player is really after. And everyone knows Hopkins is attainable if Beane pulls on the right strings. His public attitude of "oh well, what can we do?" is getting old. But somehow some fans still buy it.

 

I think you need to get over that, it's just GM speak for they have a set figure/budget in mind and aren't going to move much from the figure.  The GM is hoping that the Bills being contenders is worth something to the player and factors into the decision to push them to us.

 

The player is not insulted - that's made up by your frustration of Beane not breaking the bank for DHop.  DHop will use the same logic if the business decision he makes favors the Bills - DHop will claim it's his competitive nature and drive for the title - blah, blah, blah.  When in reality the business decision came down to even though the Bills offered slightly less, DHop's mid to long term finances would benefit more by going with the Bills.

 

Beane's public attitude to me, screams "take it or leave it."  And it looks like some of our fans are having difficulty accepting it.

 

It would seem logical Beane has a backup plan.  It looks to me like that might be to give Davis another 4-6 week trial, if he doesn't show improvement then make a move.  Some teams will be looking for draft capital - like maybe Tampa (M Evans), Rams (Kupp), Raiders (Adams), Denver (Jeudy).  We have the extra third from Edmunds and the cost will be slightly reduced (a third of the way through the season) and controlled (due to putting it together prior to a trade).

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Martin Nance is available too

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

They also openly flirted with OBJ near the end of last season, and Beane earlier this offseason in response to a question about Hopkins said something to the effect of "We still haven't closed the door on OBJ either" (before he signed with the Ravens). So yes he clearly understands we need an upgrade at WR2 and he hasn't been shy about admitting it. I don't know how any Bills fan looks at these pursuits and thinks the team is 100% satisfied with Davis.

 

I'm getting tired of Beane's recurring line - "if someone wants to come here and chase a Super Bowl, we would love to have them." The implication being that players like OBJ and Hopkins should accept less than they're worth because our organization is oh so great. It's an excuse that insults both the players and the fans. Von Miller didn't accept a discount. Beane knows what every player is really after. And everyone knows Hopkins is attainable if Beane pulls on the right strings. His public attitude of "oh well, what can we do?" is getting old. But somehow some fans still buy it.

 

Imagine getting Stefon Diggs and then waiting 4 years and counting before using another major asset at WR. Awful management in my opinion.

 

The day the Bills got Diggs my attention immediately went to "Now how do we get Brandon Aiyuk too?" Four years later and still nothing is laughably stupid.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, balln said:

What about OBJ?

They’re making sure they can fit his contract in with Maclin’s first. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

Did we sign Ertz yet?

"Agarn, go watch for Ertz..."

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I think you need to get over that, it's just GM speak for they have a set figure/budget in mind and aren't going to move much from the figure.

 

Then say that. Don't hide your misevaluation of a player's value under the guise of "he should be willing to take a discount for a playoff team." It's been well established what restructures and/or extensions could be executed to afford Hopkins at his real market value. Beane is pretending that he can't afford more than a couple million per year but that's a lie.

 

For whatever reason Beane has been willing to drastically overpay the Vernon Butlers and Trent Murphys of the world, but not the OBJs and Hopkins. The combined cap hits of Hines, Settle, and Harty this year is $11,569,000. I bet that right there gets you Hopkins, maybe with a Dawkins or White restructure thrown in for good measure. I can almost guarantee you Hopkins' value will exceed the combined value of those players this year.

 

So don't believe Beane when he says "this player is only affordable if he accepts a discount." He has shown through previous contracts that he will pay certain depth caliber players their market rate and then some. Our inability to afford Hopkins within our current salary cap is not just a matter of "oh well, that's the nature of the NFL" like Beane is presenting the situation as. It's a direct outcome of Beane misevaluating various players' values over the years.

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

It would seem logical Beane has a backup plan.  It looks to me like that might be to give Davis another 4-6 week trial, if he doesn't show improvement then make a move.  Some teams will be looking for draft capital - like maybe Tampa (M Evans), Rams (Kupp), Raiders (Adams), Denver (Jeudy).  We have the extra third from Edmunds and the cost will be slightly reduced (a third of the way through the season) and controlled (due to putting it together prior to a trade).

 

Sure, this is my last bastion of hope. Jeudy in particular is the one I have my eye on if Denver's season goes the way I think it will. If we don't obtain Hopkins but we ultimately trade for an upgrade at WR2 I am good with that.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by HappyDays

[Bills!Win!]

I said this when we were looking into OBJ.

 

If Ko Simpson is worth millions, what is Deandre Hopkins worth? 

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, julian said:

A Bills fan called me a “homer” recently because he’s convinced the Bills aren’t winning the division and will never win a title with McDermott and I’m disagreeing with him. I think the part the makes some of the “realists” upset is seeing other fans actually excited for the upcoming season while they won’t allow themselves to feel the same.

 

 When did being a homer of your favourite team become a bad thing ? I was like “yeah I’m a homer, why aren’t you ?”

It’ll be tough. The AFCE has gotten better, but that includes us. We’re a better team than last year and my favorite to win the division.
Even after bringing in oline help, wr help, rb help and trading up in the 1st round to help the offense, it’s amazing to still read some complaining that we’re not trying to help Josh. Four of the six draft picks were on offense The offense should be better than last year and only KC scored more points per game than the Bills last year. 
I guess I’m a glass half full kinda guy, when deserved. I did drop the Knicks back when Isaiah Thomas was GM and haven’t been back. 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

It would seem logical Beane has a backup plan.  It looks to me like that might be to give Davis another 4-6 week trial, if he doesn't show improvement then make a move.  Some teams will be looking for draft capital - like maybe Tampa (M Evans), Rams (Kupp), Raiders (Adams), Denver (Jeudy).  We have the extra third from Edmunds and the cost will be slightly reduced (a third of the way through the season) and controlled (due to putting it together prior to a trade).

I like it. I do think the offense will be better, including Davis. Of the group you listed, give me Adams. 

[Pabstblueribbon]

I believe the offense will be better as well. I think its going to be a "Wr2 by committee" unless/until 1 or more of the following. 

 

Gabe makes a contract year leap. 

 

deonte harty remains healthy and we reopen the John Brown playbook. 

 

They Shift to 12 Personnel formations. Kincaid and Knox Terrorize the League as interchangeable 1b target options. 

 

Dhop sees the light and signs on. 

 

/My $.02 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Personally, I think the Bills look at things in a different way.  Instead of being like the teams of Cincy, KC, etc where the top 2-3 options dominate targets; the Bills are looking to be more diverse/complimentary style offense.

 

We might legit have 5-6 players eclipse 500+ yards this season. Last year, KC had 4 (a RB being #4, McKinnon at 512 yards).  

 

Diggs, then spread the ball to our best mismatch has been what has been the strategy in building our WR/TE/RB room.  On any given play, we have 3-4 legit options that Josh can get to with his progressions.  Improved IOL play will help with him getting to those mismatches too.

 

Diggs, Davis, Knox are all likely locks for 500+.  Then I could easily see Kincaid, Harty, Shakir get that too.  Throw in Sherfield, and the pass catching ability of our backfield in Cook, Hines, and Harris; and this offense doesn't need a true #2.  That's been my point all offseason.  We finally have slot options, more speed, better IOL play for Josh.

 

Davis' targets from LY should in theory decrease.  He still might finish #2 in targets, but not by the margin of LY.  Kincaid, Harty, Shakir, etc will be what Dorsey had a vision with LY (and much better than McKenzie, Crowder, rookie Shakir).....Dorsey improving as a playcaller is a must, but also likely.

 

I am afraid you are playing the offseason "on paper" game.

 

The Bills had 5 guys last season who "on paper" should have put up 500+ yards receiving.......Diggs, Davis, Knox, McKenzie and Cook. 

 

And I mean.......the first 4 all did or came very close and they had a total of 3200+ yards.........but it was the inefficiency in accumulating those bulk numbers that plagued them once teams developed a good strategy for Stefon Diggs and The Pips.     

 

Your argument sounds a lot like the narrative that @Zerovoltz has been pushing..........but the reality is that it's a matchup league and if you don't have a very good WR2(which Juju was for KC last season) it doesn't matter that much if the rest of your corps are all WR3-WR4 type talents.  

 

There has been no better indicator of SB worthiness over the last 6 years than the quality of your second receiving option.

 

I liked the Kincaid pick but there is a lot riding on one rookie to become the 2nd option and get the Bills in the conversation with the other SB contenders.......who all have a better playmakers.    Or in the case of the Chiefs, much better pedigree of unknowns with a #1 or #2 from each of the last 3 drafts competing for WR2 between Kelce and MVS.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

They more than eyeballed talent in Round 1. They traded up to Draft Dalton Kincaid, a TE in name only who appeared to be their first choice.

 

 

Kincaid is a TE-in-name only........but so is Mike Gesicki.

 

Until Kincaid proves he is actually capable of winning against a steady diet of NFL CB coverage then he brings more question marks than a stud WR like Jordan Addison would have.

 

They reportedly wanted one of the top not-TE-in-name-only receiving targets and settled on Kincaid when he was perceived to be much better than what was left.    

[GoBills808]

Bills currently spending less on offense than the Bengals who still have Burrow on a rookie deal

 

and 2nd in the league in defensive spending, Chiefs are 21st fwiw

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I am afraid you are playing the offseason "on paper" game.

 

The Bills had 5 guys last season who "on paper" should have put up 500+ yards receiving.......Diggs, Davis, Knox, McKenzie and Cook. 

 

And I mean.......the first 4 all did or came very close and they had a total of 3200+ yards.........but it was the inefficiency in accumulating those bulk numbers that plagued them once teams developed a good strategy for Stefon Diggs and The Pips.     

 

Your argument sounds a lot like the narrative that @Zerovoltz has been pushing..........but the reality is that it's a matchup league and if you don't have a very good WR2(which Juju was for KC last season) it doesn't matter that much if the rest of your corps are all WR3-WR4 type talents.  

 

There has been no better indicator of SB worthiness over the last 6 years than the quality of your second receiving option.

 

I liked the Kincaid pick but there is a lot riding on one rookie to become the 2nd option and get the Bills in the conversation with the other SB contenders.......who all have a better playmakers.    Or in the case of the Chiefs, much better pedigree of unknowns with a #1 or #2 from each of the last 3 drafts competing for WR2 between Kelce and MVS.

 

 

Fair points.  I tend to see the "positives"/potential, but do agree it's all on paper right now.

 

With 100% confidence, I like:

Kincaid, Harty,Shakir, Sherfield >>> McKenzie, Crowder, Kumerow, etc.

 

My main focus of seeing potential improvement is:

1. IOL

2. 1 inconsistent player (McKenzie) is no longer with us, and if just 1 guy (or multiple) of those named above can be a consistent slot option, I see us having many more mismatches.

3. Better run game

 

That, plus I'm very hopeful that Dorsey makes the necessary adjustments and our 2nd year guys make a step.  We do have an offense that can be more multiple, yes counting on Kincaid for that to happen.  But if he pans out even to modest projections, defenses will need to make some difficult choices (formationally and scheme).  

 

As far as WR2 being a "marker" of success, I haven't looked into it but makes sense and trust your statement.  However, I'd also say that recent SB teams have also had another key trait: solid OL play. Case in point, we saw a Chiefs team limp into that TB superbowl (with a superior #1 and #2 WR) and get beat.

 

Just making the point that we had several weaknesses to address this offseason and Beane appears to have taken a different vision than some fans wanted.  Not saying he's right, because everything is on paper like you said as of now.  But I can see their Plan (and same weaknesses were glaring at end of LY), and now it comes down to players/coaches hitting their potential.

 

And JMO, but JuJu never scared opponents and was a product of their system.  He actually was phased out over the past 5 games leading up to the SB (10 catches 120 yards, over that 5 game span).  @Zerovoltz i havent followed his discussion, but from what I've read before he's also an educated fan/clued in.  Seems to me that KC was spreading the ball around quite a bit, and likely a similar situation coming up this season

[SCBills]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Bills currently spending less on offense than the Bengals who still have Burrow on a rookie deal

 

and 2nd in the league in defensive spending, Chiefs are 21st fwiw

Cue Joe Marino telling you about draft pick allocation. 
 

… which is a somewhat fair argument, if one also discloses spending. 
 

….and the fact the Chiefs recently hit home runs on 2/5ths of their OL playing on rookie contracts, while spending on the other 3 spots, having Kelce in the fold, then drafting WR’s early in multiple years and trading for a former RD1 WR with multiple years left on his rookie deal. 

Then let half their defense walk, because it all revolves around Chris Jones & Spags. 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by SCBills