Who does Terry Pegula turn to for counsel when it comes to evaluating Beane & McDermott?

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I don't know JP.....I don't think that the OP's premise was so outrageous. Don't misunderstand..... I am not crazy about McDermott, but; I am NOT calling for him to be fired at this point. 

Still, the OP asks a fair question imo. 

Okay well if Pegula wanted an outside opinion on his coach’s/GM’s performance he has more than enough resources to hire any number of professional talent evaluation firms. 

[The Wiz]

I get to use this again on back to back days.

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

I think the whole point of this "Who does Pegula turn to?" conversation is not wondering questions about record. I think we know with this HC, we should be in the playoffs about every year. We come to expect it now.. I think the question is. Does this head coach and this GM  good enough to get us over the hump to make it to a SB game or 2 or 3 in the next 7 years?

 

I think that is the point of conversation is how is our Staff doing against the best teams in the NFL? When it counts? 

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, MPL said:

Oh, for sure. I'm not saying it can't be done, or that just because it's never happened before that it never will. I think it's an interesting philosophical question based on over 50 years of data. I think that when you have a coach and QB pairing that is building but hasn't gotten over the hump for 5 seasons, there becomes a very real mental hurdle to clear in additional to all the physical hurdles a team has to clear over the course of a season. 

 

Andy Reid is an interesting case study. 

Andy Reid and McNabb made a Super Bowl together in their 6th season together, losing to the Patriots. They never came close again after that. 
In Kansas City, Reid and Alex Smith were close for 5 years but couldn't get over the hump together. After those 5 seasons, the Mahomes/Reid era began, which was finally enough to get Reid his first ring. 

 

Again, I'm not saying there's a science to it. I just find that 5 year number to be fascinating. 

 

 

It is interesting for sure.

 

I just think with today's resources, we are going to see so many new stats.

 

I saw a stat not too long ago for QB's who got to 35 wins the fastest.  Why 35?  That's just a random arbitrary number isn't it?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

History also strongly indicated that Andy Reid would never win a Super Bowl because he didn't do it in his first 20 years.  Has any NFL coach been a HC for 20 years and then won it?  If there is, I don't know about it.

 

History also strongly indicated that a team hosting a Super Bowl will never win a Super Bowl....then it happened two years in a row with the Bucs and Rams.

 

You can manipulate numbers to fit pretty much anything.

 

 

The numbers are not manipulated. It simply tells us what we already know. Billionaire owners get impatient. We have little reason to believe Terry will be different. 

 

Reid lasted a long time in Philly before finally being fired. There is a chance McDermott could do the same even if he never gets us over the hump. 

 

I'm sure if billionaire owners were more patient overall we would have a handful of head coach / QB combos that have won beyond their 5th year. But patience hasn't been the case often enough. 

[WhoTom]

41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I'd say she is definitely not the football brain of the operation.   Kim has basically always worked for Terry and relationships like that rarely flip 180 degrees.   He bought the toys to enjoy them and her role was managing the less fun day to day business activities while he has been learning about the sports that he bought into.      

 

Terry is a hockey fan from PA. Kim is a professional athlete and a lifelong Bills fan who grew up in WNY. I agree that she has managed the business operations, but there's no doubt that she's got some football acumen - probably more than he does.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

The numbers are not manipulated. It simply tells us what we already know. Billionaire owners get impatient. We have little reason to believe Terry will be different. 

 

Reid lasted a long time in Philly before finally being fired. There is a chance McDermott could do the same even if he never gets us over the hump. 

 

I'm sure if billionaire owners were more patient overall we would have a handful of head coach / QB combos that have won beyond their 5th year. But patience hasn't been the case often enough. 

 

When I say the numbers are manipulated, you can set parameters anywhere you want.  

 

If McDermott doesn't get passed the divisional round this year, his seat should start getting a little hot.

[MPL]

20 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It is interesting for sure.

 

I just think with today's resources, we are going to see so many new stats.

 

I saw a stat not too long ago for QB's who got to 35 wins the fastest.  Why 35?  That's just a random arbitrary number isn't it?

Hey, at least it's not baseball where we're tracking things like batting average vs. right handed pitchers during day games in the month of July on grass fields when stadium capacity is above 50% and cloud coverage is below 50% and total hot dog sales have grossed $15,000...

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, MPL said:

Hey, at least it's not baseball where we're tracking things like batting average vs. right handed pitchers during day games in the month of July on grass fields when stadium capacity is above 50% and cloud coverage is below 50% and total hot dog sales have grossed $15,000...

 

How much did you contribute to that $15,000 in hot dog sales?

I bought two of them at Yankee stadium a few summers ago that I'm still paying off.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

54 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

On even numbered weekdays, Tom Donahoe.

 

On odd numbered weekdays, Doug Whaley.

 

On the weekend, Buddy Nix.

Roll them all downhill in a single barrel, a chucklehead always ends up on top...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

When I say the numbers are manipulated, you can set parameters anywhere you want.  

 

If McDermott doesn't get passed the divisional round this year, his seat should start getting a little hot.

 

I don't see the parameter as being set at a random number though. It's specifically set at year #5 because that is the year that McDermott and Allen just completed together. We could set it at years 6, 7, and 8 etc. moving forward and it would still be true in that head coach and QB combinations have not won super bowls beyond year 5. 

 

The reason this is the case is that too few head coaches have had the opportunity to still coach their QB's in seasons beyond year #5. Even more don't even make it to a year 3 or 4. This of course is all do to elevated expectations and impatience. 

[wppete]

It’s interesting to see that the Pegula children are their front and Center and learning the business. It’s a good thing for the Bills. 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

Totally agree, great post

 

The Steelers are a great example. They really kinda wasted Ben Roethlisberger's talent. He was 26 years old when they won the SB, they should've won a lot more. But they never got a savvy offensive-minded coach to bring out Roethlisberger's true potential. And yeah, they made their fair share of bonehead in-game decisions.

 

I sure hope McDermott doesn't stick around as long as Tomlin has but I fear we could be going down that same road, except without the early SB title as they choked away the 13 sec game

 

 

 

Absolutely correct.  Look at the way Tom Brady's career was ruined by a defensive-minded head coach.  Great QBs need offensive head coaches to succeed in the NFL.

 

Oh, wait a second.  Maybe argument by anecdote doesn't work.  And maybe, just maybe, QBs can thrive under defensive head coaches.  

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[TBBills Fan]

I didnt want to start a new thread...but anyone with NFL+, there is a video with Beane and Frelund going over our picks.....

 

If someone could, Id love to hear the cliff notes version!

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Terry's a smart guy.  He probably looks at this forum for all the advice he needs.  All he has to do is read the posts here and he will know everything about football that an owner should know.

[prissythecat]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:14 AM, Nephilim17 said:

When the team is doing well and/or exceeding general expectations, as it has done the past few years, minus, probably, last season, this question is kind of moot.

 

But if and when the team is not meeting expectations or things get complicated, is there anyone in Pegula's circle of friends or trusted business associates (at arm's length from Bills operations) who he can turn to for advice and counsel on questions related to extensions, evaluations, or possible firings?

 

I'm not trying to be negative; I hope McBean lead us to multiple championships... but if things don't go as well as we hope — and with an elite QB things should mean serious contention for a Super Bowl — is Terry on his own or who advises him? 

Pegula seems, obviously, like a sharp businessman, but he doesn't strike me as a football expert. Maybe I'm wrong but I expect him to turn to someone if and when he needs to make tough decisions.

 

Terry seeks advice from the poster formerly known as @IronMaidenBills (now @Araiza Curse) who has touted on this board how good a GM he is

Edited May 23, 2023 by prissythecat
add @symbol

[MPL]

50 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How much did you contribute to that $15,000 in hot dog sales?

I bought two of them at Yankee stadium a few summers ago that I'm still paying off.

I have paid off my student loan debt faster than my hot dog debt. I mean, I don't know why we're not talking about hot dog debt cancelation in this country. It's out of control. 

[WhoTom]

1 minute ago, MPL said:

I have paid off my student loan debt faster than my hot dog debt. I mean, I don't know why we're not talking about hot dog debt cancelation in this country. It's out of control. 

 

If you fall behind on your hot dog payments, try to ketchup right away with all the relish you can muster. 

 

 

[AuntieEm]

11 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

When the team is doing well and/or exceeding general expectations, as it has done the past few years, minus, probably, last season, this question is kind of moot.

 

But if and when the team is not meeting expectations or things get complicated, is there anyone in Pegula's circle of friends or trusted business associates (at arm's length from Bills operations) who he can turn to for advice and counsel on questions related to extensions, evaluations, or possible firings?

 

I'm not trying to be negative; I hope McBean lead us to multiple championships... but if things don't go as well as we hope — and with an elite QB things should mean serious contention for a Super Bowl — is Terry on his own or who advises him? 

Pegula seems, obviously, like a sharp businessman, but he doesn't strike me as a football expert. Maybe I'm wrong but I expect him to turn to someone if and when he needs to make tough decisions.

 

You obviously have some intelligence because you can read and write.  However I'm 100% certain there are areas that you are severely lacking in expertise.  If you own a car and are not in anyway an expert in automotive engineering however did you choose what car to buy and drive?  If you just went out and bought the first car that you saw with the color you liked best and it turns out that it's always breaking down and in the shop for repairs no doubt you would do a little better research as you look to replace it.  If the car you buy is dependable and it gets you where you need to be do you replace it because the time you drove to the restaurant that serves your favorite meals is closed when you get there. 

[Nephilim17]

18 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

You obviously have some intelligence because you can read and write.  However I'm 100% certain there are areas that you are severely lacking in expertise. 

Well, I 100% agree I am lacking in football "expertise" as I'm a fan, not a professional team employee. That said, I never touted myself to be an expert.

 

In fact, a careful look at my original post will show that I'm asking questions, not telling people here what Terry is or should be doing. I think when someone asks questions they're looking to become informed, not trying to convince others that they are an expert and know what's best.

 

Also, I'm not suggesting that Terry fires Beane and/or McDermott, I'm merely asking when it's time to make decisions on those men (for an extension, after a championship win, after missing the playoffs — there are many positive and negative and neutral reasons when a decision may be needed), does Terry make this decision by himself.

 

I've seen a lot of differing answers:
1) No, Terry pays professional consulting firms to help him.

2) Yes, it's all him as he owns the team.

3) No, he has relationships with many other owners and league execs and relies on them for advice (this doesn't mean, however, that he doesn't make the final decision).

4) Kim was a big part of this but now she's not able to fulfill this role.

5) Certain posters here should be consulted when making executive decisions.

 

I don't know the answer and I'm not giving any; I just thought it was an interesting question to consider.