Who does Terry Pegula turn to for counsel when it comes to evaluating Beane & McDermott?

[Buffalo Super Fan]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:00 PM, SoCal Deek said:

I’m really not sure where this thread was intended to go, but I still don’t see how Pegula is any different than the Owner of any other company. He makes decisions at the upper most level, and I’m guessing not all that much about football, but more about management personnel….which is different. 

I already got suspended for my opinions on PSE and Terry Pegula I don’t care for another one because it just isn’t worth it Buffalo fans know how I feel. I have been around the internet for decades different Buffalo message boards going back to the Buffalo Blizzard. Most Buffalo fans know my heart is in the right place as someone born in Buffalo and called Buffalo my home for 55 years and counting but I have high expectations and standards for my sports team and my city. We are going to see if this clueless corporate sports company PSE can finally win a championship next weekend for Western New York with the Buffalo Bandits one for the thumb I have been waiting since 2009 for my Bandits championship number five. If Terry Pegula even knows who the Buffalo Bandits are playing is anybody’s guess? Terry Pegula your Buffalo Bandits are playing the Colorado Mammoth Stan Kronke’s corporation of teams that beat you last year you bum in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Sabres! Go Bandits! Go Bisons! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited May 22, 2023 by I am leaving for good

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, I am leaving for good said:

I already got suspended for my opinions on PSE and Terry Pegula I don’t care for another one because it just isn’t worth it Buffalo fans know how I feel. I have been around the internet for decades different Buffalo message boards going back to the Buffalo Blizzard. Most Buffalo fans know my heart is in the right place as someone born in Buffalo and called Buffalo my home for 55 years and counting but I have high expectations and standards for my sports team and my city. We are going to see if this clueless corporate sports company PSE can finally win a championship next weekend for Western New York with the Buffalo Bandits one for the thumb I have been waiting since 2009 for my Bandits championship number five. If Terry Pegula even knows who the Buffalo Bandits are playing is anybody’s guess? Terry Pegula your Buffalo Bandits are playing the Colorado Mammoth Stan Kronke’s corporation of teams that beat you last year you bum in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Sabres! Go Bandits! Go Bisons! Let’s Go Buffalo 

So, apparently, you're not. (Leaving for good.)

[JoPoy88]

7 minutes ago, I am leaving for good said:

I already got suspended for my opinions on PSE and Terry Pegula I don’t care for another one because it just isn’t worth it Buffalo fans know how I feel. I have been around the internet for decades different Buffalo message boards going back to the Buffalo Blizzard. Most Buffalo fans know my heart is in the right place as someone born in Buffalo and called Buffalo my home for 55 years and counting but I have high expectations and standards for my sports team and my city. We are going to see if this clueless corporate sports company PSE can finally win a championship next weekend for Western New York with the Buffalo Bandits one for the thumb I have been waiting since 2009 for my Bandits championship number five. If Terry Pegula even knows who the Buffalo Bandits are playing is anybody’s guess? Terry Pegula your Buffalo Bandits are playing the Colorado Mammoth Stan Kronke’s corporation of teams that beat you last year you bum in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Sabres! Go Bandits! Go Bisons! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Uhh…most Buffalo fans know how you feel? 

[BillsFan692]

McBean is not going anywhere any time soon this thread is almost comical. Pegula loves these guys and what theyve built here with Josh Allen -- hell, we all love it. 

 

Bills actually relevant and considered "solid, well put together" team by NFL insiders. Championship contenders the past few seasons...

 

I feel like these guys are here for the next 10 years minimum

[JoPoy88]

10 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

Idk, they lost me too. I think Capaccio is just an extreme apologist whereas the Jeremy white guy is low IQ

lower than yours? Doubtful.

[PBF81]

20 hours ago, Dopey said:

If Mcd doesn’t win a SB, that doesn’t make PBF81 right. You’re giving him too much credit. I think Mcd will win one. If he does, I wouldn’t boast about me saying so. We’re both guessing. 

 

In pure honesty I don't give a crap about being right.  I would love to win a Super Bowl however.  But the forums, at least to me, are for discussion.  Too many people care about being right.  I hope I'm 200% wrong honestly and we win the SB this season.  I simply don't see it lining up that way for the reasons stated.  

 

 

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

No it doesn't make the baseless claims around it right. That is why I have stopped engaging. But he would be right on that narrow point.

 

The claims aren't baseless, and you haven't refuted them, all you've done is disagree, like in the Monty Python Argument skit.  

 

I mean will you honestly say that our playoff game vs. Minnesota, Houston, Jax, or Miami, our playoff wins, were well coached games?   If you do then say so.  All you've done is disagree.  

 

OTOH, the games we've lost, were categorically coaching debacles in two instances, with worse than rookie coaching gaffs, and a less than spectacularly coached game against the Chiefs otherwise.  

 

To ignore all that and sweep it under the rug is fine, but it's not baseless and you haven't replied with any kind of objectivity or reason to it.  Again, simply say that those four playoff wins were well-coached games.  

 

 

 

[T master]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:14 PM, Nephilim17 said:

When the team is doing well and/or exceeding general expectations, as it has done the past few years, minus, probably, last season, this question is kind of moot.

 

But if and when the team is not meeting expectations or things get complicated, is there anyone in Pegula's circle of friends or trusted business associates (at arm's length from Bills operations) who he can turn to for advice and counsel on questions related to extensions, evaluations, or possible firings?

 

I'm not trying to be negative; I hope McBean lead us to multiple championships... but if things don't go as well as we hope — and with an elite QB things should mean serious contention for a Super Bowl — is Terry on his own or who advises him? 

Pegula seems, obviously, like a sharp businessman, but he doesn't strike me as a football expert. Maybe I'm wrong but I expect him to turn to someone if and when he needs to make tough decisions.

 

I think alls he has to do is look at the past history of the Bills & the way things went & watch the actions of those being Beane & McD to see that they truly care about this team, it's players the city & their out come of the season .

 

If the owner of a company has a leader weather it be a foreman, a crew boss, or who ever & they fall short of a goal but then the owner can see by the reaction that those in the places to make change like Beane & McD working tirelessly to be better & putting in the time it takes and that time holding the team to a standard i think his decision is made from that .

 

I for one believe that coming up short of their ultimate goal as the Bills have in the past couple of seasons only drives both Beane & McD to be more intense in their pursuit of the ultimate goal if bringing a SB to Buffalo & I believe the Pegula's can see that & realize just how hard it is to accomplish that goal . 

 

I also unlike some here hope that these 2 people stay with the Bills & end their collective careers here because as long as they are here i feel the team & the franchise are in good hands & will be relevant for years to come & a SB will eventually come with all their hard work . 

 

GO BILLS !!! 

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

In pure honesty I don't give a crap about being right.  I would love to win a Super Bowl however.  But the forums, at least to me, are for discussion.  Too many people care about being right.  I hope I'm 200% wrong honestly and we win the SB this season.  I simply don't see it lining up that way for the reasons stated.  

 

 

 

The claims aren't baseless, and you haven't refuted them, all you've done is disagree, like in the Monty Python Argument skit.  

 

I mean will you honestly say that our playoff game vs. Minnesota, Houston, Jax, or Miami, our playoff wins, were well coached games?   If you do then say so.  All you've done is disagree.  

 

OTOH, the games we've lost, were categorically coaching debacles in two instances, with worse than rookie coaching gaffs, and a less than spectacularly coached game against the Chiefs otherwise.  

 

To ignore all that and sweep it under the rug is fine, but it's not baseless and you haven't replied with any kind of objectivity or reason to it.  Again, simply say that those four playoff wins were well-coached games.  

 

 

They were. And only one was a debacle - the 13 seconds. 

[Royale with Cheese]

On 5/21/2023 at 1:09 PM, PBF81 said:

But if as a fan one's goals are a championship, serious questions presently exist, and after six full seasons, there's less basis for believing that those things will change for the better than thinking that they won't.  

 

I don't agree with this at all.  There have been coaches that have won their 1st Super Bowl after year 6.

 

If you were a Chiefs fan, would you have wanted Andy Reid fired after losing 4 WC games with the Chiefs and one of them was a 28 point blown lead?

Not to mention his playoff failures with Philly.  I think the Chiefs probably made a good choice retaining him don't you think?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't agree with this at all.  There have been coaches that have won their 1st Super Bowl after year 6.

 

If you were a Chiefs fan, would you have wanted Andy Reid fired after losing 4 WC games with the Chiefs and one of them was a 28 point blown lead?

Not to mention his playoff failures with Philly.  I think the Chiefs probably made a good choice retaining him don't you think?

 

Nobody had more playoff coaching faux pas through his career than Andy Reid. Game management and timeout usage were a constant playoff issue with Philly and KC. I get it people will say the difference is Mahomes turned up and he won. But Allen, 2021 apart, hasn't played at that elite level in the playoffs. If people want to say McDermott blew it in 2021, no disagreement there from me. 

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They were. And only one was a debacle - the 13 seconds. 

 

So the Defensive strategy in the Cincy game was sound then.  Roger.

 

Noted

 

OK, at least that clears up our differences.  🙂

 

 

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't agree with this at all.  There have been coaches that have won their 1st Super Bowl after year 6.

 

If you were a Chiefs fan, would you have wanted Andy Reid fired after losing 4 WC games with the Chiefs and one of them was a 28 point blown lead?

Not to mention his playoff failures with Philly.  I think the Chiefs probably made a good choice retaining him don't you think?

 

As a Chiefs fan I would have wanted him gone if he had underachieved with Mahomes.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So the Defensive strategy in the Cincy game was sound then.  Roger.

 

Noted

 

OK, at least that clears up our differences.  🙂

 

 

Again, straw man. That was not what I said. But it wasn't "a debacle" nor the main reason for the loss. The Bills players laid an egg. It happens. It sucks but they played their worst game of the year. It was a players loss first and foremost.

[Royale with Cheese]

16 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

As a Chiefs fan I would have wanted him gone if he had underachieved with Mahomes.  

 

That wasn't my question.  

 

In his first 6 years, he missed the playoffs once and went 1-4 in the playoffs.  Would you have wanted Andy Reid fired as a Chiefs fan?

[jethro_tull]

Because the best organizations always have good people around them to help them make decisions .   sometimes impartial consultants.  

Edited May 24, 2023 by jethro_tull

[PBF81]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:33 PM, GunnerBill said:

Again, straw man. That was not what I said. But it wasn't "a debacle" nor the main reason for the loss. The Bills players laid an egg. It happens. It sucks but they played their worst game of the year. It was a players loss first and foremost.

 

Look, this isn't complicated.  At the end of the day McD can either cut it during the playoffs or he can't.  He's not going to be coaching for 100 years.  Allen's also not going to be here forever.  

 

What we have is trends and patterns.  That's what we can base predictions upon.  As of now, there is no positive trend or pattern upwards in terms of McD's ability to coach.  In fact, this past playoffs was really really bad, so if there is a trend or an established pattern otherwise, it's simply that, downward, and that he otherwise chokes in the bigger games and if anything.  Most people fail to see how that's disputable.  

 

The question is, after 7 seasons of coaching, with nothing to indicate any trajectory towards the positive, how much longer are we willing to wait to find out.  It's a question that obviously has no objective answer.  Allen wants a Championship, as do I and many other fans.  Some fans, as stated, are perfectly content with winning seasons and simply "making the playoffs," which generally speaking is not the party-line standard. 

 

So the bottom-line question is how much longer do we wait to find out?  Allen's tenure?  One more season?  Five?  10?  20?  

 

It's not complicated.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Look, this isn't complicated.  At the end of the day McD can either cut it during the playoffs or he can't.  He's not going to be coaching for 100 years.  Allen's also not going to be here forever.  

 

What we have is trends and patterns.  That's what we can base predictions upon.  As of now, there is no positive trend or pattern upwards in terms of McD's ability to coach.  In fact, this past playoffs was really really bad, so if there is a trend or an established pattern otherwise, it's simply that, downward, and that he otherwise chokes in the bigger games and if anything.  Most people fail to see how that's disputable.  

 

The question is, after 7 seasons of coaching, with nothing to indicate any trajectory towards the positive, how much longer are we willing to wait to find out.  It's a question that obviously has no objective answer.  Allen wants a Championship, as do I and many other fans.  Some fans, as stated, are perfectly content with winning seasons and simply "making the playoffs," which generally speaking is not the party-line standard. 

 

So the bottom-line question is how much longer do we wait to find out?  Allen's tenure?  One more season?  Five?  10?  20?  

 

It's not complicated.  

 

 

Do they? I know you do. But do "most people"? This past the playoffs the team did not play well. Of course coaching gets some blame for that, but I don't think "most people" think they get the majority of the blame. And even if "most people" do.... I think they are wrong. It wasn't coaches that kept turning the ball over against Miami. It wasn't coaches that blew coverages and left Benglas wide open for touchdowns in the divisional round. Nor was it coaches that made an absolute mess of execution on the first 15 on offense. I get it they played some off coverage fans didn't like. Whoopie do. That seems to have skewed the perception of some as to why we lost. 

 

And stop accusing anyone who doesn't believe they need a Head Coaching change of being "happy making the playoffs." That's nonsense. I want the Bills to win a Championship. At this moment in time I don't think the best way to achieve that is to change the Head Coach.

 

As for how much longer do we wait to find out.... you are right, that is a question that everyone has their own answer to. If there was another debacle exit - 13 seconds style - then I'd make a change, almost regardless. Otherwise I have long since been of the view that 2025 is the turning point. That is currently when Allen's cap hit maximises (and then starts falling again) but you likely have to begin thinking about a re-negotiation at that point. 2025 is Josh's age 29 season. If by that point this regime hasn't got it done then I think you clean house and given another regime the second half of Josh's career. I think at that point it is less about do you think McDermott and Beane are good at their jobs - they are - and more about you have to try and inject some new impetus from somewhere. Nine years of a regime is a long time in the modern NFL.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by GunnerBill

[PBF81]

21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

That wasn't my question.  

 

In his first 6 years, he missed the playoffs once and went 1-4 in the playoffs.  Would you have wanted Andy Reid fired as a Chiefs fan?

 

That also wasn't my assertion.  You're taking the entire thing out of context.  If Reid had Allen playing the way he's played here, and all that Reid could do was lose Wild Card and Divisional Round games with Hunt playing at insane levels, Hill, and Kelce, then yes, absolutely, I'd have said let's move on.  There obviously would have been some kind of disconnect there between the level of talent and coaching.  Particularly given that the Chiefs were in a division full of slop otherwise during those seasons, similar to the Brady/Belichick Pats years.  

 

But taking that tack, you've moved the argument from comparing Allen to Alex Smith, which is as you realize, is absurd.  

 

I'm also guessing that Reid wouldn't be around now had he continued to lose in early rounds of the playoffs once Mahomes got there and had been playing to that level that he has.  For sure he'd be taking heat from around the league at an absolutely minimum, particularly after his performance in Philly.  It'd be naive to think otherwise.  

 

As to that comparison, comparing it to the Taylor or Fitzpatrick years would be a better comparison.  So on that note, do you think that McD would be doing anywhere close to what Reid did with Alex Smith had he coached our team from 2009 - 2017?  

 

 

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Do they? I know you do. But do "most people"? This past the playoffs the team did not play well. Of course coaching gets some blame for that, but I don't think "most people" think they get the majority of the blame. And even if "most people" do.... I think they are wrong. It wasn't coaches that kept turning the ball over against Miami. It wasn't coaches that blew coverages and left Benglas wide open for touchdowns in the divisional round. Nor was it coaches that made an absolute mess of execution on the first 15 on offense. I get it they played some off coverage fans didn't like. Whoopie do. That seems to have skewed the perception of some as to why we lost. 

 

And stop accusing anyone who doesn't believe they need a Head Coaching change of being "happy making the playoffs." That's nonsense. I want the Bills to win a Championship. At this moment in time I don't think the best way to achieve that is to change the Head Coach.

 

As for how much longer do we wait to find out.... you are right, that is a question that everyone has their own answer to. If there was another debacle exit - 13 seconds style - then I'd make a change, almost regardless. Otherwise I have long since been of the view that 2025 is the turning point. That is currently when Allen's cap hit maximises (and then starts falling again) but you likely have to begin thinking about a re-negotiation at that point. 2025 is Josh's age 29 season. If by that point this regime hasn't got it done then I think you clean house and given another regime the second half of Josh's career. I think at that point it is less about do you think McDermott and Beane are good at their jobs - they are - and more about you have to try and inject some new impetus from somewhere. Nine years of a regime is a long time in the modern NFL.  

 

It was the coaches that put us in those ridiculous defensive alignments that caught national media attention.  You're evading here, understandable given your take, but you're evading.  

 

As to people "being happy with making the playoffs," they've stated it themselves, no sense in telling me that.  That's their angle, not mine.  I certainly don't see a lot of people arguing as you just did when the topic is raised by myself.  To the contrary in fact.  Who cares though.  

 

On your last point(s), I think that's fair on the outside.  I've never stated that I'd have fired McD already, my point however has been that he really needs to do something besides getting ousted in the Wild-Card or Divisional round this season.  IMO 8 seasons is more than enough to prove, with a talent like Allen, that you're capable of doing more.  Particularly when the coaching "glitches" he's demonstrated exist.  That's OJT territory, worse than rookie mistakes.  

 

As to them being good at their jobs, I've also never argued that they suck, they are "good," but we need to define "good."  They clearly haven't been good enough, and they've clearly made coaching errors and otherwise haven't coached to the same positive levels that their playoff counterparts have.  My position is simply that he (McD) has reached a ceiling in coaching.  I don't see any evidence that he's going to get any better.  There definitely isn't any positive trend in that direction, if anything the opposite is true.  

 

As to Beane, a simple review of his Drafts will tell you that if he is "good," then that's also relative, but saying "he's good" but then trying to reveal the piece parts from his Drafts, besides Allen five years ago, is a different exercise altogether.  I would suggest however that if McD doesn't end up cutting it, and if as you imply you'd like to see, house is cleaned, that the image and perceptions of them will drop significantly after that, .... as they always do.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

So on that note, do you think that McD would be doing anywhere close to what Reid did with Alex Smith had he coached our team from 2009 - 2017?  

 

 

I don't know why 2009-2017? But do I think McDermott would have got Alex Smith led Bills teams to the playoffs? Yes. He got a Tyrod freaking Taylor led team with much less talent than the Chiefs team Reid and Smith had to the playoffs. Even the year Reid arrived with the Chiefs they had the #1 pick but at the same time 6 pro bowlers on a team that finished with the worst record in football. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

It was the coaches that put us in those ridiculous defensive alignments that caught national media attention.  You're evading here, understandable given your take, but you're evading.  

 

As to people "being happy with making the playoffs," they've stated it themselves, no sense in telling me that.  That's their angle, not mine.  I certainly don't see a lot of people arguing as you just did when the topic is raised by myself.  To the contrary in fact.  Who cares though.  

 

On your last point(s), I think that's fair on the outside.  I've never stated that I'd have fired McD already, my point however has been that he really needs to do something besides getting ousted in the Wild-Card or Divisional round this season.  IMO 8 seasons is more than enough to prove, with a talent like Allen, that you're capable of doing more.  Particularly when the coaching "glitches" he's demonstrated exist.  That's OJT territory, worse than rookie mistakes.  

 

As to them being good at their jobs, I've also never argued that they suck, they are "good," but we need to define "good."  They clearly haven't been good enough, and they've clearly made coaching errors and otherwise haven't coached to the same positive levels that their playoff counterparts have.  My position is simply that he (McD) has reached a ceiling in coaching.  I don't see any evidence that he's going to get any better.  There definitely isn't any positive trend in that direction, if anything the opposite is true.  

 

As to Beane, a simple review of his Drafts will tell you that if he is "good," then that's also relative, but saying "he's good" but then trying to reveal the piece parts from his Drafts, besides Allen five years ago, is a different exercise altogether.  I would suggest however that if McD doesn't end up cutting it, and if as you imply you'd like to see, house is cleaned, that the image and perceptions of them will drop significantly after that, .... as they always do.  

 

 

 

I am NOT evading. I am disagreeing. You don't like it when people don't agree with you so you accuse them of doing something else. You think coaching was the main reason that we lost that Bengals game. I don't. It played a part, sure. But it played about the part coaching plays in most NFL games (about a 3rd). Two thirds is almost always down to the players on the field and the Bills (both in the Miami game and the Bengals game) made way too many basic mistakes. Yes, there was some off coverage that people hated. But that was not close to the main reason we lost the football game. As for a review of Beane's drafts - I point you towards @JGMcD2 - who has done the analysis on this. 

 

And many people will change their perceptions of Bills coaches and GMs after they are let go. Defend them while they are here, attack them once they have moved on. I get that there is a core of fans who are like that. The new guy is always the best guy... but I am not and never have been one of those fans. I'm not a homer. I don't always think the Bills and the people currently on the team or on the sideline or in the box are the right people. I actually watch the games, I watch the all22, I analyse what I see and I form a view. I'm not defending Sean McDermott because he is the Bills Head Coach. I am defending him because I don't think he is at fault for many of the things you think he is at fault for. I was the biggest critic of Dick Jauron and Rex Ryan when they were here. I called Chan Gailey a glorified college OC. Again, I watch the games, I watch them again. I watch the all22. If I think someone is making consistently bad coaching decisions I say it. McDermott screwed the pooch at Kansas City in the 2021 playoffs. But the coaching generally in the playoffs has not been the reason for our defeats.