Who does Terry Pegula turn to for counsel when it comes to evaluating Beane & McDermott?

[Augie]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Who expects the Bills to miss the playoffs?

 

Sadly, I swear some people would love to see it so they could prove they were right in all their constant complaining. Things are not perfect, but there are not many teams I’d want to trade places with. 

[taglientep]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:42 AM, Aussie Joe said:

His God 

Have we reached peak off-season yet with this thread?

 

Probably not 

[Trogdor]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:37 AM, wppete said:

I think Terry Pegula knows exactly what he is doing. Made a fortune in Business coming from a blue collar upbringing. From nothing to a billionaire. Don’t let his quiet and calm demeanour fool you this guy is a very smart businessman and seems like a great person. 

Terry was knowingly pumping chemicals into people's well water on more than one occasion. His company had one of the worst compliance records while he lobbied for more fracking. This isn't an anti-fracking rant, but you wouldn't use the "great person" label if he knowingly destroyed the water in your county. 

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Tomlin won a SB in his second season.  He went to a second two seasons later.  We've only made it past the divisional round once, and then we got smoked by the Chiefs.  He started 55-25.  I'd trade that in an instant for what we have.  

 

 

You didn't answer the question.  I'll ask it again.  

 

Where on the "football knowledgeability scale" would you rank our "13 Seconds" debacle?    A few options are, that everyone knows that you don't give Mahomes/Kelce/Hill 25 yards of open space to work when they only need that for a reasonable FG try; every good coach would have done the same or similar;  only the most astute fans can even grasp that it was not a good decision given the tempo of the game;  most football minded fans know that it was a bad decision;  etc.   Put another way, how "football smart" does one have to be in order to have known, before hand, that doing what McD did was not a good idea?  

 

 

To add injury to insult the Bills took a time out to get the calls right. 

 

What's often not discussed is why didn't the Bills just blatantly hold and tackle Kelce, Hill, and all their offensive players. The holding penalty would not have hurt the Bills at all. In the meantime precious seconds would have elapsed off the clock as Mahomes would have had to look elsewhere. That was the easiest path to win the game. 

 

The 13 second debacle ranks up there in any NFL playoff choke job. It's close to the Tenn miracle. However, that was more of a fluke than anything. The 13 second debacle has to be one of the worst coaching displays in playoff history. Yet, McD is seen as godlike and untouchable. 

 

Also, I disagree that the Cinci game was all on the players. The Bills coaching staff got throttled. The players were not ready to play and the game plan was non existent. They literally made no adjustments from the whipping Cinci was giving them weeks before. So I don't think it's credible to not hold the coaches accountable. 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Who expects the Bills to miss the playoffs?

I expect them to lose in the playoffs like they have under McD and Beane for 5 years and counting. 

 

I don't expect them to beat KC or Cinci. Of course lots of variables can change in a season.  

[newcam2012]

On 5/20/2023 at 11:42 PM, Buffalo716 said:

To be fair you could’ve squibbed it 

 

And the returning team just falls on it at the 25 or 30… Giving them selves up and no time comes off the clock

 

If you pooch it really high… You could just fair catch it at the 20-25

 

And if it goes over your head at the 15… Let it roll into the end zone

 

Of course there is a chance that The returner let’s it bounce over his head and the ball dies before the endzone but it’s luck of bounce 

You play the percentages and the odds. Clearly, the best decision was to squib or pooch the ball because the top priority was to burn the clock.

 

Kicking it into the end zone was never the right call because it can't take seconds of the clock. It's really that simplistic. Romo live was screaming for the squib kick. 

 

Also, Bass had been pooching the ball effectively all season. The coaches have to be able to trust their kickers to execute this kick. I firmly believe Bass was up to the task.

 

Your woulda or coulda really doesn't justify how bad the Bills blew it. The excuse McD gave or didn't give was even more reason to believe he choked it. No way on earth should there be any miscommunication. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Sadly, I swear some people would love to see it so they could prove they were right in all their constant complaining. Things are not perfect, but there are not many teams I’d want to trade places with. 

I think you are way off base here Augie. I think this point of view is sadly pathetic. It's nothing more than a cheap shot at Bills fans who criticize the team, front office, or players. No way do I think people on this board want to be be seen as being correct at the expense of the Bills missing the playoffs. 

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think you are way off base here Augie. I think this point of view is sadly pathetic. It's nothing more than a cheap shot at Bills fans who criticize the team, front office, or players. No way do I think people on this board want to be be seen as being correct at the expense of the Bills missing the playoffs. 

 

You rarely fail to come thru as expected. Pathetic, you say? 

 

I’m all for being objective. Some people don’t know what that means. 

[Mr. WEO]

[newcam2012]

30 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You rarely fail to come thru as expected. Pathetic, you say? 

 

I’m all for being objective. Some people don’t know what that means. 

It cuts both ways sir. Objectivity is often lost here. 

 

Take a look at a positive vs a negative post regarding the Bills. 

 

Ask yourself if you look at those posts in an objective manner. 

 

For example, Bills beat KC 38 to 10. 

 

Bills lost to KC 38 to 10. 

 

Will they be met with equal objectivity? 

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Who expects the Bills to miss the playoffs?

You said my comment was complete "shite" (note- don't add words or emphasis to other peoples quotes, its misleading)   The comment you bolded was 

"In my opinion, there is not a single NFL head coach, who given Allen and the rest of the Bills roster, would be expected to have lesser playoff results than McDermott ha s had. "

 So I will modify my question: Which coaches would be expected TO HAVE lesser playoff results than McDermott?

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Chaos

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Chaos said:

You said my comment was complete "shite" (note- don't add words or emphasis to other peoples quotes, its misleading)   The comment you bolded was 

"In my opinion, there is not a single NFL head coach, who given Allen and the rest of the Bills roster, would be expected to have lesser playoff results than McDermott ha s had. "

 So I will modify my question: Which coaches would be expected TO HAVE lesser playoff results than McDermott?

 

 

 

Almost all of them. I'll give you about 10 that would do at least as well. 

[Chaos]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Almost all of them. I'll give you about 10 that would do at least as well. 

This is complete shitte. 
 

Fourteen teams make the playoffs.  Eleven of them without a top 3 QB.  For starters all those coaches would be expected to make the final 8 with Allen as QB.  

Side note - no one else would have choked 13 seconds. In the entire history of the NFL, no coach f'd up that big. 

Many of the teams that did not make the playoffs last year have coaches who would be expected to to make the final 8 with Allen.  Guys like Belichek and Tomlin.  So we start at easy 50%. 
 

No reason to think guys like Saleh or McCay or Sean Peyton would do worse.  We are quickly into well over half without even trying. 

If the Bills hired Riech , Riviera, Campbell, Vrabel or Daboll, every fan would have an expectation of making the divisional round of the playoffs. 

In other words somewhere between almost all and all. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Chaos

[JaCrispy]

Russ Brandon…

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Getting back to the OP original question. 

It is a good question.

My guess is no one really knows. 

In Portland Paul Allen had a leadership group called Vulcan. It managed all aspects of his business interests but was intimately involved in the sports operations of both the Blazers and Seahawks.  In the case of the Seahawks they hired a good GM and backed off. In The Blazers case they were constantly meddling in player and coach decisions. 

Heck even Jerry Jones listens (sometimes) to his son.

With Kim out of the picture it is a good question to ask who does Terry consult for business decisions for Sabres and Bills. He almost assuredly had someone else besides Kim but reportedly she was essentially a co-owner when it came to decisions. 

If anything there is a void there. 

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Also, I disagree that the Cinci game was all on the players. The Bills coaching staff got throttled. The players were not ready to play and the game plan was non existent. They literally made no adjustments from the whipping Cinci was giving them weeks before. So I don't think it's credible to not hold the coaches accountable. 

 

We were completely unprepared heading out of the tunnel for that game, it reminds me of how we emerged in the 2nd-half of the last Super Bowl we were in, before getting throttled 24-0 after coming back out with a 13-6 lead.  And now it's out that we had the wrong cleats while Cincy, on a road field, was fully prepared in that way.  And it seems that they could have made those changes on the sideline even.  

 

I will add to what you said, in terms of coaching, IMO McD & Co. is among the worst at adjusting in-game than any we've ever had, and that's a huge part of coaching.  

 

 

[Shemp]

Seems like the Bills are on their way to becoming the Toronto Maple Leafs of football.

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know what the "football knowledgability scale" is. The Bills screwed the pooch and ultimately it was on coaching. From the decision not to squib to the coverages, to the time out usage. All were mistakes. 

 

I would say most football fans know that the best clock strategy there is to make KC use some time on the return. So most could probably have got that right. 

 

However, most football fans don't have a clue about coverage schemes. So while most will say they knew that was wrong if actually asked for a coverage that they'd have played in that scenario most would shrug and ask for another beer.

 

You're hedging there, bigtime.  

 

The short answer is that it's pretty universal.  So when we incessantly hear how the coaches (and GMs in other conversations) are highly paid experts, it certainly raises questions when entirely unpaid casual fans know better than those "experts," which then raises further, tougher questions.  To dismiss that is to ingore reality, and that's what McD apologists are doing.  "Just ignore the elephant sitting on the hood of the car," and the "man behind the curtain," and let's look only at the more superficial positive things.  

 

And look, McD has his strengths, like anyone, but on-field coaching, particularly when it comes to tactics and strategy or adjustments do not appear to be among them.  Preparedness is now in question as well until further notice, all the "good reasons" aside, some of which also pertained to our opponents that didn't seem to have the same issues.  

 

And again, I'm fine with McD as a regular season coach, he's been great there, I'll freely admit that.  But it'd be nice to hear his apologists admit that he's equally problematic in the playoffs except when he's played  NE with Jones at QB or Miami with Skylar Thompson.  I realize that some fans, acknowledged here, don't care about winning a SB unlike the rest of us, and for them, great, that's fine.  But if as a fan one's goals are a championship, serious questions presently exist, and after six full seasons, there's less basis for believing that those things will change for the better than thinking that they won't.  

 

Either way, discussing and debating it isn't going to change one thing.  But one of two things is going to occur this season, either that trend will be broken, or it won't be.  If it is, great, but if not, then I certainly think that it's fair to start asking how many more seasons we roll with a head coach whose level of understanding, in several instances, isn't even on par with unpaid casual football fans.  Defending that won't make much sense.  I will only mention, again, that we've still never even gotten an explanation for either of those egregious coaching failures.  As I've said before, for someone that preaches accountability, to refuse to accept any or ante-up in that way himself, in and of itself is also problematic.  

 

I also don't think that players like Diggs are gonna sit still for things if we merely have a wash/rinse/repeat type of season.  He, and Allen, and others, want a Championship whether many fans here are content with that or not being irrelevant.  And honestly, which fan accepts underachievement and thereby not winning a championship.  That part seriously eludes me.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You're hedging there, bigtime.  

 

The short answer is that it's pretty universal.  So when we incessantly hear how the coaches (and GMs in other conversations) are highly paid experts, it certainly raises questions when entirely unpaid casual fans know better than those "experts," which then raises further, tougher questions.  To dismiss that is to ingore reality, and that's what McD apologists are doing.  "Just ignore the elephant sitting on the hood of the car," and the "man behind the curtain," and let's look only at the more superficial positive things.  

 

And look, McD has his strengths, like anyone, but on-field coaching, particularly when it comes to tactics and strategy or adjustments do not appear to be among them.  Preparedness is now in question as well until further notice, all the "good reasons" aside, some of which also pertained to our opponents that didn't seem to have the same issues.  

 

And again, I'm fine with McD as a regular season coach, he's been great there, I'll freely admit that.  But it'd be nice to hear his apologists admit that he's equally problematic in the playoffs except when he's played  NE with Jones at QB or Miami with Skylar Thompson.  I realize that some fans, acknowledged here, don't care about winning a SB unlike the rest of us, and for them, great, that's fine.  But if as a fan one's goals are a championship, serious questions presently exist, and after six full seasons, there's less basis for believing that those things will change for the better than thinking that they won't.  

 

Either way, discussing and debating it isn't going to change one thing.  But one of two things is going to occur this season, either that trend will be broken, or it won't be.  If it is, great, but if not, then I certainly think that it's fair to start asking how many more seasons we roll with a head coach whose level of understanding, in several instances, isn't even on par with unpaid casual football fans.  Defending that won't make much sense.  I will only mention, again, that we've still never even gotten an explanation for either of those egregious coaching failures.  As I've said before, for someone that preaches accountability, to refuse to accept any or ante-up in that way himself, in and of itself is also problematic.  

 

I also don't think that players like Diggs are gonna sit still for things if we merely have a wash/rinse/repeat type of season.  He, and Allen, and others, want a Championship whether many fans here are content with that or not being irrelevant.  And honestly, which fan accepts underachievement and thereby not winning a championship.  That part seriously eludes me.  

 

 

I am not hedging. There is nothing hedging about my reply at all. 

 

The Bills coaches screwed up on 13 seconds. I have said that repeatedly. 

 

As for wanting a Championship, so do I! Where we disagree is the extent to which the critical factor preventing one is the Head Coach. 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

I am not hedging. There is nothing hedging about my reply at all. 

 

The Bills coaches screwed up on 13 seconds. I have said that repeatedly. 

 

As for wanting a Championship, so do I! Where we disagree is the extent to which the critical factor preventing one is the Head Coach. 

 

LOL, well that's a pretty monumental and egregious error, and again, not one that McD has done as he's preaching, and accepted accountibility for, in fact, it's quite the opposite, he's shamefully hidden from the fans and media on it.  That's enough to rub people the wrong way.  

 

As newera said, it's akin to the "Homerun Throwback" but worse, because it wasn't circumstantial, it was entirely within the control of McD himself.  

 

To suggest that "oh well, that's just in the learning curve of a future great head coach," .... LOL, that's nonsense.  Then factor in that in his 6th season he did what he did in this past season's playoffs, ... SMH.  That's just as bad.  

 

Anyway, we're going to continue to disagree in this way.  As I said, unless that changes, and I see no reason as to why it will as the writing on the wall is that McD will continue to be outcoached by the better coaches in the playoffs, more and more people and fans are going to start seeing things that way.  Some simply see it sooner than others, that's all.  

 

You can have the last word, but we're making zero progress here.  There's no reason to continue this.  Let's continue with the player ratings.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, well that's a pretty monumental and egregious error, and again, not one that McD has done as he's preaching, and accepted accountibility for, in fact, it's quite the opposite, he's shamefully hidden from the fans and media on it.  That's enough to rub people the wrong way.  

 

As newera said, it's akin to the "Homerun Throwback" but worse, because it wasn't circumstantial, it was entirely within the control of McD himself.  

 

To suggest that "oh well, that's just in the learning curve of a future great head coach," .... LOL, that's nonsense.  Then factor in that in his 6th season he did what he did in this past season's playoffs, ... SMH.  That's just as bad.  

 

Anyway, we're going to continue to disagree in this way.  As I said, unless that changes, and I see no reason as to why it will as the writing on the wall is that McD will continue to be outcoached by the better coaches in the playoffs, more and more people and fans are going to start seeing things that way.  Some simply see it sooner than others, that's all.  

 

You can have the last word, but we're making zero progress here.  There's no reason to continue this.  Let's continue with the player ratings.  

 

 

 

I disagree on accountability. He HAS taken accountability for it. Multiple times. What he hasn't done is explained in finite detail what the mistakes were or the process behind them. He is entitled to keep that in house.

 

I'm done in this conversation. It is "I hate McDermott and I am gonna keep saying things that aren't true to try and support my position."

 

You think Gregg Williams was a better coach. Again, entitled to your view. But we are one million miles apart. 

 

You might be right that McDermott isn't the guy to win us a Superbowl. That is very possible. But some of the crap you have said around it is just that. 

 

It isn't worth continuing.