Frazier Permanently Gone?

[BillsVet]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:53 AM, GerstAusGosheim said:

The big story everyone is missing is that Sean waited until there were no DC jobs left to fire him. That's really messed up.

 

No one in this thread really wants to say it: McD didn't have the stones to fire his 6 year tenured DC because it would reflect poorly on him.  As much as Frazier underperformed in the playoffs, McD had a big say in the personnel he had to work with.  If the defensive talent was solid, we'll see this season if that's the case.  

[Sierra Foothills]

On 5/19/2023 at 11:40 AM, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I'll go one further.

 

If Bills underachieve in the playoffs again McD could be gone too !

 

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

absolutely.  Everyone is held accountable

 

This raises a sub topic that no one has really addressed to my knowledge.

 

As a disclaimer let me first say that I do not think McDermott will be anywhere near a hot seat. He's taken the franchise too far in a good direction to be on thin ice. The only scenario I see him being under the gun is if the Bills somehow miss the playoffs in 2023. If that happens he'll be on thin ice for 2024.

 

THAT SAID HOWEVER, it's important to remember that McDermott was hired before Beane and it's reasonable to say that McDermott hired Beane.

 

So... if McDermott were to be fired, who would be pulling the trigger? It's hard to believe that Beane even has the power much less the inclination to fire the close friend who hired him. So if McDermott was let go wouldn't it be Pegula making that decision?

 

And if Pegula were to fire McDermott would Beane survive? He and McDermott are so close and collaborative that it's really hard to say whether any major decision the team has made was made by one or the other. In addition their bodies of work are fairly inseparable so I'm having a hard time imagining the firing of only one of them. It seems to me that they're a package deal and if one goes, they both go.

 

And again, I think the conversation is pretty premature.

 

[Don Otreply]

8 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

This raises a sub topic that no one has really addressed to my knowledge.

 

As a disclaimer let me first say that I do not think McDermott will be anywhere near a hot seat. He's taken the franchise too far in a good direction to be on thin ice. The only scenario I see him being under the gun is if the Bills somehow miss the playoffs in 2023. If that happens he'll be on thin ice for 2024.

 

THAT SAID HOWEVER, it's important to remember that McDermott was hired before Beane and it's reasonable to say that McDermott hired Beane.

 

So... if McDermott were to be fired, who would be pulling the trigger? It's hard to believe that Beane even has the power much less the inclination to fire the close friend who hired him. So if McDermott was let go wouldn't it be Pegula making that decision?

 

And if Pegula were to fire McDermott would Beane survive? He and McDermott are so close and collaborative that it's really hard to say whether any major decision the team has made was made by one or the other. In addition their bodies of work are fairly inseparable so I'm having a hard time imagining the firing of only one of them. It seems to me that they're a package deal and if one goes, they both go.

 

And again, I think the conversation is pretty premature.

 

I’m thinking that Terry Pegula okayed the hire of Beane, and Beane would then be in a position of authority, (and with Terry Pegula’s blessing) he has the ability to fire McDermott if it were to come down to that. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:58 AM, WIDE LEFT said:

It is as clear as a bell that McD informed Frazier that he (McD) would call the defenses in 2023 season. Given this, Frazier had to leave the Bills. At this point in his career, Frazier cannot accept being a DC stripped of play calling responsibilities. Among other problems, it would kill any chance of gettting a HC job

Yep, this is exactly what happened. It's 2023 and you cannot fire a black DC with a consistent top 10 defense. So the Bills forced him out with a stealth move instead. 

 

Whether Sean intentionally waited until there were no available DC jobs left or it just took the legal department and PR machine too long to get their ducks in a row is unclear. But it was horribly handled and Leslie deserved better. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

18 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

No one in this thread really wants to say it: McD didn't have the stones to fire his 6 year tenured DC because it would reflect poorly on him.  As much as Frazier underperformed in the playoffs, McD had a big say in the personnel he had to work with.  If the defensive talent was solid, we'll see this season if that's the case.  

I respect this take a lot and agree with the personnel note. But also think it has more to do with the times and public perception. You simply can't fire a black DC with a perpetually top 10 defense in 2023. I don't make the rules. Like it or not. The Bills would have been crucified for it. So they took the strategic approach and forced him out with the "taking a year off" approach. I believe there were 5 open DC jobs this year. He would have easily landed one of them.

[AlfaBill]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:05 PM, I am leaving for good said:

Leslie Frazier isn’t coming back nor should we want him back with the Buffalo Bills. Sean McDermott will be potentially joining him on the unemployment line if he doesn’t move the Buffalo Bills forward in the playoffs one and done or worse bye, bye Sean McDermott he should be fired also in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I like your username. Keep it in mind when you decide the Bills are no longer worthy of your fandom. 

[Bferra13]

9 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Yep, this is exactly what happened. It's 2023 and you cannot fire a black DC with a consistent top 10 defense. So the Bills forced him out with a stealth move instead. 

 

Whether Sean intentionally waited until there were no available DC jobs left or it just took the legal department and PR machine too long to get their ducks in a row is unclear. But it was horribly handled and Leslie deserved better. 

If this is true I'm assuming a big fat payout and a NDA. Kinda sad this is what we've come to. If any of this is true at all that is.  He was never coming back though. Not sure why this is a thread. 

[Franco_92]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:29 PM, ganesh said:

absolutely.  Everyone is held accountable

 

The Bills are identifying that winning AFC East and going to the playoffs is one thing; they also realize that you need superior coaching to elevate yourself in the playoffs and we don't have one as we have continued to make critical mistakes to exit the playoffs

    *.  Bills had a 17-0 lead against the Watson led Texans...3rd and 16 with game on the line and  the defenders were at the 25 yard mark. 

    *. Bills take a 3 pt lead against the Chiefs with 17 seconds left and we allowed Mahomes two catches to get into FG range....We also kicked the ball to EZ and there by not taking any time of the clock

    *. Bills are pummeled by the Bengals Offense and Defense and were trailing by two scores most of the game.  The OC could not adjust the game plan and kept chucking the ball downfield for low % plays.  

   *. Bills lead 17-0 nothing against the Dolphins and allowed them to take the lead right after half time.  Miami on that day ended up coaching poorly to lose the game to Josh Allen.

 

When you make such mistakes, it usually ends in a loss in the playoffs.  

 

Playoffs are tough...We beat Baltimore on a great play by Tarun Johnson as the Ravens were knocking on the door to take the lead.   

 

The  Bills coaching staff really needs to elevate their game to the next level to compete in the playoffs and win Super Bowls.

The Ravens were knocking on the door to *tie* the game and were at 3rd and goal from the 10 or so. The weather turned that game into a bit of a joke. The staff needs to take a step for sure. I think they will, largely because I think Zen Josh is back 

[MasterStrategist]

Seemed like a good man/leader, but I'm glad to see a change (regardless of how it went down).

 

Hoping we see a more aggressive style/playcalling, not expecting anything schematically to change much.  As many said, this has been McDermotts' scheme and philosophy.  The devil is in the details with execution, and playcalling though.  Improved playcalling has been what is lacking....

 

Best predictor of future success is past results, and Frazier has been dreadful in the playoffs (past few years summary):

1. Excellent: Pats 2021

2. Average: Ravens 2020, Miami 2022

3. Poor: KC 2020, Colts 2020, Houston 2019

4. Horrible: KC 2021 (13 seconds should have been the final straw), Bengals 2022

 

That Houston game should have been a W, in 2019...and that 2020 Colts game could have easily been another L.  

 

McDermott has a good scheme, it just needs to take it up a level in aggression and creativity, at key moments of games.  

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:32 PM, MasterStrategist said:

Seemed like a good man/leader, but I'm glad to see a change (regardless of how it went down).

 

Hoping we see a more aggressive style/playcalling, not expecting anything schematically to change much.  As many said, this has been McDermotts' scheme and philosophy.  The devil is in the details with execution, and playcalling though.  Improved playcalling has been what is lacking....

 

Best predictor of future success is past results, and Frazier has been dreadful in the playoffs (past few years summary):

1. Excellent: Pats 2021

2. Average: Ravens 2020, Miami 2022

3. Poor: KC 2020, Colts 2020, Houston 2019

4. Horrible: KC 2021 (13 seconds should have been the final straw), Bengals 2022

 

That Houston game should have been a W, in 2019...and that 2020 Colts game could have easily been another L.  

 

McDermott has a good scheme, it just needs to take it up a level in aggression and creativity, at key moments of games.  

Sean clearly felt 13 seconds was the final straw for the Special Teams Coordinator (who failed to squibb) and LBs Coach (out of position) because they secretly left/retired and we didn't know about it until 3 months later. But apparently, that's not enough evidence for most that Sean didn't think Leslie was at fault.

 

Otherwise, if you still feel strongly that 13 seconds should have been the final straw for Leslie, you must include Sean. It's Sean's system, he heard the call, was standing right there, saw the scheme, and chose not to change it, which he had every right and chance to do. Same with the Bengals cover zero scheme everyone brings up when the biggest issue with the team that day was clearly the O. If you told Bills fans ahead of the game that the the Bills D kept the Bengals O to 27, we'd all assume we won that game. Instead, 10 points.

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

51 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Sean clearly felt 13 seconds was the final straw for the Special Teams Coordinator (who failed to squibb) and LBs Coach (out of position) because they secretly left/retired and we didn't know about it until 3 months later. But apparently, that's not enough evidence for most that Sean didn't think Leslie was at fault.

 

Otherwise, if you still feel strongly that 13 seconds should have been the final straw for Leslie, you must include Sean. It's Sean's system, he heard the call, was standing right there, saw the scheme, and chose not to change it, which he had every right and chance to do. Same with the Bengals cover zero scheme everyone brings up when the biggest issue with the team that day was clearly the O. If you told Bills fans ahead of the game that the the Bills D kept the Bengals O to 27, we'd all assume we won that game. Instead, 10 points.

 

 

Both sides of the ball played poorly against Cincy, it was definitely the worse performance of the season.  That's been discussed ad nauseum, same with who was to blame, offense or defense.   It was clearly bad on all fronts.

 

Not sure I agree about the 27 points comment (assuming a win)...given the weather conditions, that can easily neutralize teams, which it totally worked against us..lack of running game/short passing game 2nd half of season.

 

Bottom line is Frazier wasn't completely at fault, but to somehow assume Sean was OK with what was occurring on defense simply isn't true.  His scheme, yes, but there's a reason he's taking over playcalling this season (which is an important point of discussion).  

 

As for 13 seconds, that's another topic beaten to death. 

 

When there's a pattern of failed execution on defense in the past few playoffs, which there clearly has been... That falls squarely on the Def coordinator/def staff/players.  Hence Sean taking over playcalling and we will see if that rights the ship

[JohnNord]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:47 PM, hondo in seattle said:

It sounds like, as some surmised, that Frazier is out permanently:

 

The NFL released a memo on Wednesday listing the 40 participants of the league’s 2023 coach accelerator program May 21-23.

 

Leslie Frazier’s name was included in the memo, however, he was one of three head-coaching hopefuls (along with Pep Hamilton and Kris Richard) to not have a team affiliation next to his name.

 

www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/does-leslie-frazier-s-latest-venture-hint-he-won-t-return-to-bills-in-2024/ar-AA1bkG6e?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b643a44bc2294b33ae7f8a3b6dd8b453&ei=44

Wasn’t there a rumor that there was one-year left on his contract.  Considering that he’s chose to sit out this season, it would track for him to be on the list.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

Frazier is