Good read on Trent Sherfield

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

The term “improvement” is a reach. Considering neither of them have accomplished what McKenzie has. Again. We’re basing how the WR group will look against last year. 

Isiah McKenzie had 42 catches, 442 yards and 4 TD’s last year.

 

Harty was injured last year so but in 2021, he had 36 catches, 570 yards and 3 TD’s.

 

You’re right.  6 more catches and 130 less receiving yards and 1 more TD is way too lofty expectations to match McKenzie.  
 

McKenzie had Josh Allen throwing to him and Harty had Jameis Winston throwing to him.  Which shouldn’t make a difference because Winston is just as good as Allen.

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

to be honest, I don’t think everyone knows this. Seems to be a good number of people that believe he was the answer we were looking for. Atleast that’s the way it seemed to me right after free agency

Knox, Kincaid, Diggs and Davis will all get thrown to more.  Probably Shakir too.  
 

I think people viewed Harty as the speed guy and not the answer guy.

[akcash]

I feel really confident in this guy to step in if Gabe or Diggs went down.

[PBF81]

45 minutes ago, Einstein said:

He's a low level crappy FA signing. If he plays any better than that, it's a humongous success. While I don't see it happening, it wouldn't shock me if he were cut in training camp. Especially with us likely to run more 2 TE sets this year.

 

If Sherfield makes the team, just think about what that meant for all of the other prospects after Harty and Shorter, many of whom people here are talking about what great pick-ups they were, even if only as 5th/6th WRs.    

 

This time of year people seem to assume that the final roster is for 65.  

 

Three teams in five seasons, below-average statistical performance, his third one-year stint in a row, ... LOL   ... He's averaged 10.8 YPG in his five seasons with a best of 24.5 last season, absolutely horrific performance in the 3rd and 4th Qs last season, and only one decent (4/63/1) game against any passing D ranked higher than 16th. (Cleveland)  

 

BTW, the closest WR behind him at Miami had only 12 catches, Cedric Wilson, and without looking no one in our forum can name another WR on Miami last season.  IOW, he likely got what he got because there was no competition for him as a 3/4 WR.  

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue even slightly in favor of Sherfield.  Even if he makes the team I'd be stunned if he has even 10 catches.  

 

 

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I know you didn't, don't get spun up, but you did make that comment comparing him to Kumerow, which yeah, is about right, LOL.  But when he signed most people here were much bigger on him than I'm reading in this thread.  It's interesting how the subsequent drafting of Kincaid has lowered the rhetoric on Sherfield.  

 

Kumerow's nothing either, he won't be around come fall, he was another nothing signing just like Sherfield.  Is he even still on the roster?  I've never touted him, only others here did last and when we signed him.  Not sure why the comparison there.  As to Kumerow, I have no idea how one even compares a WR that has 7 catches in three seasons.  

 

I also contrasted Sherfield to McKenzie whom no one here thinks is good, and he still falls short of McKenzie as pointed out.  Why not compare him to McK then?  

 

As to the math, it's easy to calculate, 5th grade math,you can't be serious about that.  That's exactly where I got the data, it's my go-to data site although there are others also depending upon categories, some do it better than others.  For raw data nothing beats pfr.  What, you can only evaluate what's spoon-fed you?  You can't possibly be serious there.  But since you mention 3rd-down-conversion rate, let's talk about that, and a few others. 

 

pfr provides all the data needed for anyone to calculate pretty much anything, but  we can use straight splits there and simple math (division of two simple numbers) to draw our comps.  

 

To start, and go look for yourself, but did you notice Sherfield's 2nd-H numbers last season?  ... contrasted with is 1st-Half numbers that is?  If you had, you should have noticed that his 3rd & 4th Q stats plummet into next to worthlessness.  In short, he sucks in the 2nd halves of games.  Why, do you think, that may be?   

 

On 3rd-downs last season all 13 of McKenzie's catches went for 1st-Downs, and 13 of 19 targets, with a 68.4% catch%.

 

In contrast, Sherfield had the same 19 targets, only 9 receptions, and 7 went for 1st-Downs, with a 47.4% catch%.  

 

McKenzie was a subpar WR and wasn't good enough for us.  I fail to see how Sherfield is any better than a WR we just cast off when his performance(s) don't even match McK's.  

 

You can be right, I really don't care, but I simply fail to see how Sherfield makes the team at this point, his contract is nowhere near suggestive that he's beyond getting cut, and since Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Harty, and now Shorter and a few others, not to mention Kincaid whom most seem to believe that he'll more fill a Slot-WR role than that of TE, and Sherfield's fighting with all the others to make it as a 6th WR and/or STs player.  I mean honestly, if someone can't beat out Sherfield ... 

 

Sure, great story, but until we sign players to do Traveler's MOTY documentaries, ... 

 

I'm not quite sure what there is to argue about there, which is essentially all I said earlier.   That's all.  

 

 

I’ve said my peace on all of this.  Replying is a monumental waste of my time and yours if you were to read it.  
 

we’ll just have to wait and see.  I think our passing game is going to be much improved and adding pieces like Harty and Sherfield will help as they are both upgrades over the incumbents that we let loose, Mckenzie and Kumerow.  You disagree.  
 

agree to disagree. 

[Meatloaf63]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

If Sherfield makes the team, just think about what that meant for all of the other prospects after Harty and Shorter, many of whom people here are talking about what great pick-ups they were, even if only as 5th/6th WRs.    

 

This time of year people seem to assume that the final roster is for 65.  

 

Three teams in five seasons, below-average statistical performance, his third one-year stint in a row, ... LOL   ... He's averaged 10.8 YPG in his five seasons with a best of 24.5 last season, absolutely horrific performance in the 3rd and 4th Qs last season, and only one decent (4/63/1) game against any passing D ranked higher than 16th. (Cleveland)  

 

BTW, the closest WR behind him at Miami had only 12 catches, Cedric Wilson, and without looking no one in our forum can name another WR on Miami last season.  IOW, he likely got what he got because there was no competition for him as a 3/4 WR.  

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue even slightly in favor of Sherfield.  Even if he makes the team I'd be stunned if he has even 10 catches.  

 

 

You write awfully long posts to say very little🤦‍♂️

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Knox, Kincaid, Diggs and Davis will all get thrown to more.  Probably Shakir too.  
 

I think people viewed Harty as the speed guy and not the answer guy.

 

They're really talking Shorter up too.  

 

Shakir I think will be a solid mid-tier WR.  We'll see.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

They're really talking Shorter up too.  

 

Shakir I think will be a solid mid-tier WR.  We'll see.  

 

 

Its a Bills message board, a lot of players get talked up after the draft.

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Its a Bills message board, a lot of players get talked up after the draft.

 

Exactly, and to the point where there's x number of roster spots, and including free agents signed well before the draft, but if one believed all of the talking up then you'd think that there were 2x number of roster spots.  

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by PBF81

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Here's the thing, if Sherfield is all that, then how come he's averaged barely over 10 yards-per-game?  

 

Kumerow's not much either, but his TD and 1D conversion rates are better than Shefield's.  

 

See my post above.  

 

 

 

Well, if you read those pieces on Sherfield, it's pretty obvious to me why we signed him, and it has less to do with his on-field performance and lot more to do with his life philosophy in relation to McD.  

 

This is a business, and McD's preferences for character with a religious touch is fine as a tiebreaker, but it shouldn't factor in otherwise, but it does.  

 

We're not a church team.  

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Beane signed Sherfield, not McD.

 

And I doubt if religion is something McD pays close attention to.  McD is the coach of a football team.  His goal is to win on the gridiron.   Not establish a church choir.  

 

Sherfield was signed because he has some talent and we didn't have much depth last year.  

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

The term “improvement” is a reach. Considering neither of them have accomplished what McKenzie has. Again. We’re basing how the WR group will look against last year. 

I don’t think you can compare them the same because they do different things for your team
 

McKenzie was a big play guy at times who was underwhelming most of the time

 

Sherfield is a blocking wide receiver. He’s got good size appears to have good hands is not slow.

 

He played behind two very good wide, receivers in Miami, and was considered their third wide receiver

 

I’m not saying he’s going to have 1000 yards or anything but whenever you see one of our running backs go for a huge run, don’t be surprised if it was a Sherfield it was blocking for it

[PBF81]

12 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I'm pretty sure Beane signed Sherfield, not McD.

 

And I doubt if religion is something McD pays close attention to.  McD is the coach of a football team.  His goal is to win on the gridiron.   Not establish a church choir.  

 

Sherfield was signed because he has some talent and we didn't have much depth last year.  

 

Why he was signed isn't really germane to my comments. 

 

As to your statement about McD, LOL, OK.  

 

Otherwise, you're suggesting that Beane simply signs players in a vacuum without any input from McD.  OK   I won't argue.  

 

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

If Sherfield makes the team, just think about what that meant for all of the other prospects after Harty and Shorter, many of whom people here are talking about what great pick-ups they were, even if only as 5th/6th WRs.    

 

This time of year people seem to assume that the final roster is for 65.  

 

Three teams in five seasons, below-average statistical performance, his third one-year stint in a row, ... LOL   ... He's averaged 10.8 YPG in his five seasons with a best of 24.5 last season, absolutely horrific performance in the 3rd and 4th Qs last season, and only one decent (4/63/1) game against any passing D ranked higher than 16th. (Cleveland)  

 

BTW, the closest WR behind him at Miami had only 12 catches, Cedric Wilson, and without looking no one in our forum can name another WR on Miami last season.  IOW, he likely got what he got because there was no competition for him as a 3/4 WR.  

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue even slightly in favor of Sherfield.  Even if he makes the team I'd be stunned if he has even 10 catches.  

 

 

 

Bingo.

[DCofNC]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have continuously told people this guy is better than people think all off-season.  His story going back to SF is fascinating, and while I am hoping for a Davis bounce back season, Sherfield for me is someone who can push Davis for reps and targets if he doesn't and is more of the same last year.  

 

To be totally honest, if it was a battle for WR2 between Sherfield and last years version of Davis, my view would be that Sherfield is capable of winning that battle.  

 

I am not suggesting Sherfield enters week 1 as WR2 or anything, just saying that he is good insurance IMHO if Davis struggles from last year persist again this season.

If he gets used, I think he could well be the biggest value of this FA period for the Bills.  He was actually very good w Miami.  If Davis can’t step up, he may get pushed out.

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

They're really talking Shorter up too.  

 

Shakir I think will be a solid mid-tier WR.  We'll see.  

 

 

Shorter couldn’t do jack crap in college as an absolute physical freak, to think he’s going to step up the NFL and be anything more than a ST gunner is a joke.

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

The term “improvement” is a reach. Considering neither of them have accomplished what McKenzie has. Again. We’re basing how the WR group will look against last year. 

Before playing w Allen, McKenzie was cut because he couldn’t handle a punt and wasn’t even viewed as worth keeping as a gadget player for the O with all that speed and shiftiness.  So is it that McKenzie is the better player or he got more targets , with a far superior QB in a pass-centric offense, where he was the 3rd WR (4th option) by default?

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

Let’s not kid ourselves. The guy, just like Harry still hasn’t had a season as good as McKenzie has in this league. And I think we all agree that McKenzie kind of sucked. 
 

I have no issue with the signing or hoping he will be something more than what we had last year. I’m just tired of the arguments that we’ve upgraded at the WR position when neither  Sherfield or Harty have had as good as a season as McKenzie has. And he had a career year last season. Let’s just call it what it is, a guy that’s likely our 5th or 6h receiving option. Someone that will likely see more time chasing down punts than he will on offense. Once we all get rid of the lofty expectations we can have legitimate discussions about what our WR corp might look like this year. 

 

Last year was his first real opportunity to play offense. He was mostly used as a special teams player prior to that other than his rookie season.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

If Sherfield makes the team, just think about what that meant for all of the other prospects after Harty and Shorter, many of whom people here are talking about what great pick-ups they were, even if only as 5th/6th WRs.    

 

This time of year people seem to assume that the final roster is for 65.  

 

Three teams in five seasons, below-average statistical performance, his third one-year stint in a row, ... LOL   ... He's averaged 10.8 YPG in his five seasons with a best of 24.5 last season, absolutely horrific performance in the 3rd and 4th Qs last season, and only one decent (4/63/1) game against any passing D ranked higher than 16th. (Cleveland)  

 

BTW, the closest WR behind him at Miami had only 12 catches, Cedric Wilson, and without looking no one in our forum can name another WR on Miami last season.  IOW, he likely got what he got because there was no competition for him as a 3/4 WR.  

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue even slightly in favor of Sherfield.  Even if he makes the team I'd be stunned if he has even 10 catches.  

 

 

 

No disrespect, but your posts and comments like the bolded sure make it seem like you don't really know anything about his story, circumstances, skill set, etc and have not really seen him play, if at all.  You are coming across to me as a "never heard of the guy, so let me look at a stat sheet to see if he is any good" poster here in this thread.  Maybe I am wrong, but that is how you sound in your posts.  And while stat sheets can be useful, they can also be unreliable because they also do not always tell the whole story and lack contect.  

 

So I won't spend the time trying to argue or convince you there is more here than what you see on a stat sheet, but I will say I look forward to seeing your updated opinion of him after you see him in this offense on the field.  I am pretty confident this kid is better than you think, and I have a pretty stellar track record around here regarding WR's.  No one is saying he is the next Stefon Diggs, but this kid can play and he is certainly an upgrade to Kumerow backing up Diggs/Davis on the outside.

 

JUST FOR FUN:  Since you basically suggested the over/under on total receptions is at 10 catches by saying you will be stunned if he even gets 10...I will make you a friendly wager (you can pick the amount we bet) on the over/under bet of 10 catches...under 10 you win...10 we push, over 10 I win.  Let me know if you are interested, would be a fun bet.  

[Sierra Foothills]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Crap. 

 

Sherfield got the Dunne kiss-o-death.

 

Every time Dunne has a feature article or relationship with a Bills player, they suck, or underperform.

 

From Efe Obada to isaiah McKenzie to Sammy Watkins to Trey Lance.

 

Nothing says "this player will be nothing special", more than a Tyler Dunne feature article.

 

Trey Lance never played for the Bills.

 

 

[mrags]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Isiah McKenzie had 42 catches, 442 yards and 4 TD’s last year.

 

Harty was injured last year so but in 2021, he had 36 catches, 570 yards and 3 TD’s.

 

You’re right.  6 more catches and 130 less receiving yards and 1 more TD is way too lofty expectations to match McKenzie.  
 

McKenzie had Josh Allen throwing to him and Harty had Jameis Winston throwing to him.  Which shouldn’t make a difference because Winston is just as good as Allen.

Knox, Kincaid, Diggs and Davis will all get thrown to more.  Probably Shakir too.  
 

I think people viewed Harty as the speed guy and not the answer guy.

So what you’re saying is a guy that is often injured (26 games over 4 season) and has never produced as much as our bad slot guy from last year is the answer. And you’re convinced he won’t get injured again, or will out produce what he literally has never done in his career. Got it. 

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t think you can compare them the same because they do different things for your team
 

McKenzie was a big play guy at times who was underwhelming most of the time

 

Sherfield is a blocking wide receiver. He’s got good size appears to have good hands is not slow.

 

He played behind two very good wide, receivers in Miami, and was considered their third wide receiver

 

I’m not saying he’s going to have 1000 yards or anything but whenever you see one of our running backs go for a huge run, don’t be surprised if it was a Sherfield it was blocking for it

So with Hill and Waddle in the field taking up all the defenders looks, and he still couldn’t put produce a bad McKenzie. Got it. 

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Before playing w Allen, McKenzie was cut because he couldn’t handle a punt and wasn’t even viewed as worth keeping as a gadget player for the O with all that speed and shiftiness.  So is it that McKenzie is the better player or he got more targets , with a far superior QB in a pass-centric offense, where he was the 3rd WR (4th option) by default?

McKenzie was bad. Has always been pretty bad. I’m using him as a comparison to the 2 WRs we picked up that people seem to think will be better than what we had last year. But have never even produced as much as a bad McKenzie. 

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Last year was his first real opportunity to play offense. He was mostly used as a special teams player prior to that other than his rookie season.

Just stop 

[SectionC3]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have continuously told people this guy is better than people think all off-season.  His story going back to SF is fascinating, and while I am hoping for a Davis bounce back season, Sherfield for me is someone who can push Davis for reps and targets if he doesn't and is more of the same last year.  

 

To be totally honest, if it was a battle for WR2 between Sherfield and last years version of Davis, my view would be that Sherfield is capable of winning that battle.  

 

I am not suggesting Sherfield enters week 1 as WR2 or anything, just saying that he is good insurance IMHO if Davis struggles from last year persist again this season.

I recall watching the first and playoff games against MIA last year and thinking who the eff is this guy.  He was a bit of a menace.  I appreciate him getting the sun in his eyes on the first snap of the playoff game.  But it doesn't change the fact that he was open.  He is a capable receiver.  

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’ve said my peace on all of this.  Replying is a monumental waste of my time and yours if you were to read it.  
 

we’ll just have to wait and see.  I think our passing game is going to be much improved and adding pieces like Harty and Sherfield will help as they are both upgrades over the incumbents that we let loose, Mckenzie and Kumerow.  You disagree.  
 

agree to disagree. 

Bingo.  I think it's a holistic improvement.  Davis won't have to play a million snaps because we'll have a backup who can block.  We can use Sherfield to put a little speed in the slot (think Daboll 2018 with Foster) to change it up a bit.  Screen game theoretically should be better.  Should help in the run game.  All around solid addition.  Think Kumerow but with more speed and better receiving skills. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I recall watching the first and playoff games against MIA last year and thinking who the eff is this guy.  He was a bit of a menace.  I appreciate him getting the sun in his eyes on the first snap of the playoff game.  But it doesn't change the fact that he was open.  He is a capable receiver.  

Bingo.  I think it's a holistic improvement.  Davis won't have to play a million snaps because we'll have a backup who can block.  We can use Sherfield to put a little speed in the slot (think Daboll 2018 with Foster) to change it up a bit.  Screen game theoretically should be better.  Should help in the run game.  All around solid addition.  Think Kumerow but with more speed and better receiving skills. 

While I like the Sherfield addition, I really like the Harty addition.  It’s a gamble as he hasn’t been able to stay healthy, but as long as he’s healthy and available for the playoffs, I think he can do some damage. Feels like a 50/50 chance