Good read on Trent Sherfield

[T master]

Quote

🙏 Please be a good get ...

 

[1ManRaid]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

So…. Lunch pal to work kind of guy that was undrafted and likes to work on special teams. Got it. Doesn’t sound like another Kumerow to me at all. Look for about 12 catches on the season for him. But probably 14 ST tackles. 

 

With 10 of those catches coming from 2 games against teams that bizarrely refuse to cover him, getting more and more surprised each time he is targeted.  Kind of like how McKenzie just goes off and torches random teams while doing nothing the rest of the month.

[mrags]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

You mean other than the fact he had more catches last year than Kumerow has in his entire career?

Let’s not kid ourselves. The guy, just like Harry still hasn’t had a season as good as McKenzie has in this league. And I think we all agree that McKenzie kind of sucked. 
 

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Solid WR5.  Plays ST, slot, outside, can block. Not sure why anyone would have an issue with this addition tbh.  

I have no issue with the signing or hoping he will be something more than what we had last year. I’m just tired of the arguments that we’ve upgraded at the WR position when neither  Sherfield or Harty have had as good as a season as McKenzie has. And he had a career year last season. Let’s just call it what it is, a guy that’s likely our 5th or 6h receiving option. Someone that will likely see more time chasing down punts than he will on offense. Once we all get rid of the lofty expectations we can have legitimate discussions about what our WR corp might look like this year. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

Let’s not kid ourselves. The guy, just like Harry still hasn’t had a season as good as McKenzie has in this league. And I think we all agree that McKenzie kind of sucked. 
 

I have no issue with the signing or hoping he will be something more than what we had last year. I’m just tired of the arguments that we’ve upgraded at the WR position when neither  Sherfield or Harty have had as good as a season as McKenzie has. And he had a career year last season. Let’s just call it what it is, a guy that’s likely our 5th or 6h receiving option. Someone that will likely see more time chasing down punts than he will on offense. Once we all get rid of the lofty expectations we can have legitimate discussions about what our WR corp might look like this year. 

 

I think every knows that Sherfield and Hardy are going to be the 5th and 6th options, especially since our 1st round pick is a pass catching flex TE.

Who is having "lofty" expectations?  Saying improvement is "lofty"?  

[mrags]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think every knows that Sherfield and Hardy are going to be the 5th and 6th options, especially since our 1st round pick is a pass catching flex TE.

Who is having "lofty" expectations?  Saying improvement is "lofty"?  

The term “improvement” is a reach. Considering neither of them have accomplished what McKenzie has. Again. We’re basing how the WR group will look against last year. 

[BananaB]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think every knows that Sherfield and Hardy are going to be the 5th and 6th options, especially since our 1st round pick is a pass catching flex TE.

Who is having "lofty" expectations?  Saying improvement is "lofty"?  

to be honest, I don’t think everyone knows this. Seems to be a good number of people that believe he was the answer we were looking for. Atleast that’s the way it seemed to me right after free agency

[mrags]

Just now, BananaB said:

to be honest, I don’t think everyone knows this. Seems to be a good number of people that believe he was the answer we were looking for. Atleast that’s the way it seemed to me right after free agency

Thank you. This x100

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, mrags said:

Let’s not kid ourselves. The guy, just like Harry still hasn’t had a season as good as McKenzie has in this league. And I think we all agree that McKenzie kind of sucked. 
 

I have no issue with the signing or hoping he will be something more than what we had last year. I’m just tired of the arguments that we’ve upgraded at the WR position when neither  Sherfield or Harty have had as good as a season as McKenzie has. And he had a career year last season. Let’s just call it what it is, a guy that’s likely our 5th or 6h receiving option. Someone that will likely see more time chasing down punts than he will on offense. Once we all get rid of the lofty expectations we can have legitimate discussions about what our WR corp might look like this year. 

Time will tell if we’ve upgraded or not.  We may not have added the big name WR everyone was hoping for but I think our passing game (and run game) have gotten better.  Possibly much better.  If the topic is relegated to have we upgraded each individual WR position, I can understand people wanting to see the baby before believing we’ve improved.
 

It’s my belief that we have upgraded the position in the passing game and well as on ST.  Kumerow isn’t nearly the receiver Sherfield is imo.  I’ve been a Harty fan for a few years (thanks to a 15 team fantasy dynasty league).  I was a big Mckenzie fan too….. until this year.  He just wasn’t what he needed to be. He regressed imo.  Harty may not stay healthy…. But if he does, I think he’s a tremendous weapon and can take any play to the house.  Both Harty and Sherfield have outside/slot flex.  Dirty and Kumerow had zero flex.  
 

Shakir should be better with a year under his belt. 
 

Kincaid is a TE, but he’ll also be our best slot weapon and will playing a lot of WR.  I consider his to be an addition to our WR unit as well as TE.  He’s going to wear many hats on O.

 

I have no clue about Shorter, but for a 5th rd pick, he’s the kind of guy I’d like to gamble on and try and develop. 
 

I feel that we added a lot of size, rac ability, versatility, run blocking, big play potential and ST ability our  receiving unit while not sacrificing any speed. 
 

jmo 

 

 

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think every knows that Sherfield and Hardy are going to be the 5th and 6th options, especially since our 1st round pick is a pass catching flex TE.

Who is having "lofty" expectations?  Saying improvement is "lofty"?  

 

IMO he's a perfect player to be cut prior to the season.  

 

1-year contract with almost no dead cap if he gets cut.  He's already a journeyman five years into the league.  I see no difference between him and a bunch of other WRs we've had in/out of here quickly over the past six years.  

 

I don't understand even the remotest optimism on this guy.  The article that prompted this thread talked about his great hands, but his catch% was not significantly better than Davis' and everyone wants Davis out of here.  Davis at least makes big plays, not Sherfield.  

 

Davis has 1 TD for every 11 targets and every 6 catches.  Also, 42% of Davis' targets result in a 1st-Down, 77% of his catches result in 1st-Downs.  He's averaged 9.1 yards-per-target.  

 

Sherfield finished 161st in Catch% last season, which is bad.  Davis was only marginally worse.  Sherfield has 1 TD for every 30 targets and every 17 receptions.  That's a third of Davis' rate and everyone hates Davis and wants him gone.  We need to at least apply the same logic and reasoning to both players.  Only 35% of his targets resulted in 1st-Downs and only 62% of his catches resulted in 1st-Downs.  McKenzie's numbers are significantly better.  

 

Also, Sherfield's only two TDs last season were against the Browns in a blowout Miami win in their second biggest offensive performance, and the other was this play vs. San Fran, a play which essentially is his career.  LOL  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uit0_3xTpmw   

 

Not trying to poo-poo the guy, but nothing about his signing suggests that it's a good wager to put money on the fact that he won't get cut.  Not saying he will, but IMO he's definitely a bubble-guy in that way.  I don't see a single role that he fills better than any other player on the team.  

 

Either way, same as the day he was signed, this is a nothing signing.  If he makes the team it'll probably be because of his special teams play only, but we're not hurting for STs.  

 

 

 

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Kumerow isn’t nearly the receiver Sherfield is imo.  

 

Here's the thing, if Sherfield is all that, then how come he's averaged barely over 10 yards-per-game?  

 

Kumerow's not much either, but his TD and 1D conversion rates are better than Shefield's.  

 

See my post above.  

 

 

30 minutes ago, mrags said:

The term “improvement” is a reach. Considering neither of them have accomplished what McKenzie has. Again. We’re basing how the WR group will look against last year. 

 

Well, if you read those pieces on Sherfield, it's pretty obvious to me why we signed him, and it has less to do with his on-field performance and lot more to do with his life philosophy in relation to McD.  

 

This is a business, and McD's preferences for character with a religious touch is fine as a tiebreaker, but it shouldn't factor in otherwise, but it does.  

 

We're not a church team.  

 

 

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, mrags said:

So…. Lunch pal to work kind of guy that was undrafted and likes to work on special teams. Got it. Doesn’t sound like another Kumerow to me at all. Look for about 12 catches on the season for him. But probably 14 ST tackles. 

So…..another whiny post about your supposed favorite team.  Got it.  Doesn’t sound like another phony to me at all.  Look for about 12 complaints a week.  But probably 14 gloating I told you so’s every time the Bills lose a game.

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have continuously told people this guy is better than people think all off-season.  His story going back to SF is fascinating, and while I am hoping for a Davis bounce back season, Sherfield for me is someone who can push Davis for reps and targets if he doesn't and is more of the same last year.  

 

To be totally honest, if it was a battle for WR2 between Sherfield and last years version of Davis, my view would be that Sherfield is capable of winning that battle.  

 

I am not suggesting Sherfield enters week 1 as WR2 or anything, just saying that he is good insurance IMHO if Davis struggles from last year persist again this season.

 

 

Based on what?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Mr. WEO

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Here's the thing, if Sherfield is all that, then how come he's averaged barely over 10 yards-per-game?  

 

Kumerow's not much either, but his TD and 1D conversion rates are better than Shefield's.  

 

See my post above.  

 

 

 

Well, if you read those pieces on Sherfield, it's pretty obvious to me why we signed him, and it has less to do with his on-field performance and lot more to do with his life philosophy in relation to McD.  

 

This is a business, and McD's preferences for character with a religious touch is fine as a tiebreaker, but it shouldn't factor in otherwise, but it does.  

 

We're not a church team.  

 

 

If he’s “all that”?  Wth are you talking about?   I’m not saying he’s a great-  I’m saying he’s a definite upgrade over Kumerow.  
 

If he’s so bad, how did he beat out 8M aav investment Cedrick Wilson for the slot?  He played 57% of the dolphins offensive snaps.  I don’t think he’ll get that many with us, but he’s surely an upgrade and can wear many hats between outside flex, slot flex and all the ST units.  
 

thanks for pointing out 2 lame stats that aren’t even listed on pro football reference.    TD rate?  3rd down conversion rate?  Come on man.  Kumerow has 46 targets and 19 1st downs.  119 and 42 for Sherfield.  slightly higher rate…. Based on his whopping 46 targets.  Kumerow is so good that he has 14 targets in the last 3 years.  No TDs in the last 2. Sherfield had more targets last season than Kumerow does in his career.  
 

I’ve said my peace multiple times on this subject and stand by it.  Sherfield is a nice upgrade over Kumerow.  We shall wait and see.  Care to place a wager on who has a more successful career from here on out?

 

 

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Thanks for sharing.

 

Here's another good one - by our old friend, Tyler Dunne

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/the-trent-sherfield-prophecy

 

Crap. 

 

Sherfield got the Dunne kiss-o-death.

 

Every time Dunne has a feature article or relationship with a Bills player, they suck, or underperform.

 

From Efe Obada to isaiah McKenzie to Sammy Watkins to Trey Lance.

 

Nothing says "this player will be nothing special", more than a Tyler Dunne feature article.

[Einstein]

 

32 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

He played 57% of the dolphins offensive snaps.  I don’t think he’ll get that many with us, but he’s surely an upgrade and can wear many hats between outside flex, slot flex and all the ST units.  

 

He's a low level crappy FA signing. If he plays any better than that, it's a humongous success. While I don't see it happening, it wouldn't shock me if he were cut in training camp. Especially with us likely to run more 2 TE sets this year.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

He's a low level crappy FA signing. If he plays any better than that, it's a humongous success. While I don't see it happening, it wouldn't shock me if he were cut in training camp. Especially with us likely to run more 2 TE sets this year.

Cool bro!  Glad you feel this way.  It makes me feel even better about his signing 

[LeGOATski]

8 hours ago, Augie said:

 

We run screens about as well as EJ would slide. WHY is it SO HARD? 

Because Josh is inaccurate

[mrags]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Time will tell if we’ve upgraded or not.  We may not have added the big name WR everyone was hoping for but I think our passing game (and run game) have gotten better.  Possibly much better.  If the topic is relegated to have we upgraded each individual WR position, I can understand people wanting to see the baby before believing we’ve improved.
 

It’s my belief that we have upgraded the position in the passing game and well as on ST.  Kumerow isn’t nearly the receiver Sherfield is imo.  I’ve been a Harty fan for a few years (thanks to a 15 team fantasy dynasty league).  I was a big Mckenzie fan too….. until this year.  He just wasn’t what he needed to be. He regressed imo.  Harty may not stay healthy…. But if he does, I think he’s a tremendous weapon and can take any play to the house.  Both Harty and Sherfield have outside/slot flex.  Dirty and Kumerow had zero flex.  
 

Shakir should be better with a year under his belt. 
 

Kincaid is a TE, but he’ll also be our best slot weapon and will playing a lot of WR.  I consider his to be an addition to our WR unit as well as TE.  He’s going to wear many hats on O.

 

I have no clue about Shorter, but for a 5th rd pick, he’s the kind of guy I’d like to gamble on and try and develop. 
 

I feel that we added a lot of size, rac ability, versatility, run blocking, big play potential and ST ability our  receiving unit while not sacrificing any speed. 
 

jmo 

 

 

I agree 100% with all of this. I just don’t want to be one of the people assuming we got better because history and statistics have proven that neither of these guys is better than what we had last year. I’ll hope we will be better. I just think it’s a little premature to expect it. 

[PBF81]

51 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If he’s “all that”?  Wth are you talking about?   I’m not saying he’s a great-  I’m saying he’s a definite upgrade over Kumerow.  
 

If he’s so bad, how did he beat out 8M aav investment Cedrick Wilson for the slot?  He played 57% of the dolphins offensive snaps.  I don’t think he’ll get that many with us, but he’s surely an upgrade and can wear many hats between outside flex, slot flex and all the ST units.  
 

thanks for pointing out 2 lame stats that aren’t even listed on pro football reference.    TD rate?  3rd down conversion rate?  Come on man.  Kumerow has 46 targets and 19 1st downs.  119 and 42 for Sherfield.  slightly higher rate…. Based on his whopping 46 targets.  Kumerow is so good that he has 14 targets in the last 3 years.  No TDs in the last 2. Sherfield had more targets last season than Kumerow does in his career.  
 

I’ve said my peace multiple times on this subject and stand by it.  Sherfield is a nice upgrade over Kumerow.  We shall wait and see.  Care to place a wager on who has a more successful career from here on out?

 

I know you didn't, don't get spun up, but you did make that comment comparing him to Kumerow, which yeah, is about right, LOL.  But when he signed most people here were much bigger on him than I'm reading in this thread.  It's interesting how the subsequent drafting of Kincaid has lowered the rhetoric on Sherfield.  

 

Kumerow's nothing either, he won't be around come fall, he was another nothing signing just like Sherfield.  Is he even still on the roster?  I've never touted him, only others here did last and when we signed him.  Not sure why the comparison there.  As to Kumerow, I have no idea how one even compares a WR that has 7 catches in three seasons.  

 

I also contrasted Sherfield to McKenzie whom no one here thinks is good, and he still falls short of McKenzie as pointed out.  Why not compare him to McK then?  

 

As to the math, it's easy to calculate, 5th grade math,you can't be serious about that.  That's exactly where I got the data, it's my go-to data site although there are others also depending upon categories, some do it better than others.  For raw data nothing beats pfr.  What, you can only evaluate what's spoon-fed you?  You can't possibly be serious there.  But since you mention 3rd-down-conversion rate, let's talk about that, and a few others. 

 

pfr provides all the data needed for anyone to calculate pretty much anything, but  we can use straight splits there and simple math (division of two simple numbers) to draw our comps.  

 

To start, and go look for yourself, but did you notice Sherfield's 2nd-H numbers last season?  ... contrasted with is 1st-Half numbers that is?  If you had, you should have noticed that his 3rd & 4th Q stats plummet into next to worthlessness.  In short, he sucks in the 2nd halves of games.  Why, do you think, that may be?   

 

On 3rd-downs last season all 13 of McKenzie's catches went for 1st-Downs, and 13 of 19 targets, with a 68.4% catch%.

 

In contrast, Sherfield had the same 19 targets, only 9 receptions, and 7 went for 1st-Downs, with a 47.4% catch%.  

 

McKenzie was a subpar WR and wasn't good enough for us.  I fail to see how Sherfield is any better than a WR we just cast off when his performance(s) don't even match McK's.  

 

You can be right, I really don't care, but I simply fail to see how Sherfield makes the team at this point, his contract is nowhere near suggestive that he's beyond getting cut, and since Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Harty, and now Shorter and a few others, not to mention Kincaid whom most seem to believe that he'll more fill a Slot-WR role than that of TE, and Sherfield's fighting with all the others to make it as a 6th WR and/or STs player.  I mean honestly, if someone can't beat out Sherfield ... 

 

Sure, great story, but until we sign players to do Traveler's MOTY documentaries, ... 

 

I'm not quite sure what there is to argue about there, which is essentially all I said earlier.   That's all.  

 

 

[Augie]

24 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Because Josh is inaccurate

 

Was this supposed to be serious? I’m honestly not sure. 

 

My son’s high school team ran better screens. Just the right amount of tricking them into thinking it’s for real, while still allowing the blocking to set up. We run screens like my wife throws a frisbee. That is NOT a compliment. ANYTHING could happen, but it’s rarely good.  The problem is not just the delivery of the ball. We are tipping it off, or are in some other way completely incompetent.  I can be like watching a car wreck.