Mr. WEO Posted September 9 Posted September 9 1 hour ago, Doc said: Doubtful. In 40 states in the country, like NYS, 17 is legal and we never would have even known about this incident. In several of the states where the age of consent is 18, there exist exceptions for mistake in age or close in age ("Romeo and Juliet"), likely because the age of consent is so high. He was in (his home state of) California where mistake in age is a valid defense, so... Bottom line, the law wasn't mean to protect someone like her. Just because she's 17 doesn't mean she gets excused for her actions. You said I made up his defense, yet you just re-iterated it. He said she lied (i.e., he was tricked) about being of age. She left little doubt that's what she did. Had she not, he would have been arrested, as legally, she is not competent to consent. If she was 16, would you say she is still not someone to be protected? 15? What if she was 14 and is on tape telling everyone she is 18 and was looking to run up "her numbers"? What's your cutoff here? The "Model Penal Code" allows this defense with victims as young as 10 years old. Quote
Doc Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You said I made up his defense, yet you just re-iterated it. He said she lied (i.e., he was tricked) about being of age. She left little doubt that's what she did. Had she not, he would have been arrested, as legally, she is not competent to consent. If she was 16, would you say she is still not someone to be protected? 15? What if she was 14 and is on tape telling everyone she is 18 and was looking to run up "her numbers"? What's your cutoff here? The "Model Penal Code" allows this defense with victims as young as 10 years old. You said "his side of the story" like it was just his word and nothing else. When the truth is they investigated fully and found the story (his, hers and everyone else's) to be that she lied about her age in order to have sex consensual with college guys. I don't think her original motive was to get them into legal trouble and I doubt any of them knew she was 17. It was basically kids looking to hook up. Then she went and fabricated at least Araiza's part in the whole thing, likely because she got caught by her parents and Araiza was an NFL prospect and had deep pockets when they went public since he had just made the team. And if she had been 15 or 16 and still did what she did, no, she still shouldn't be protected. Again being young shouldn't excuse you from the consequences of your bad decisions. The only thing I'll say is that if she had been 15 or 16 years old, I think it would be easier to spot. But if you say you can tell the difference between a 17 year old and an 18 year old, especially at a college party where they're saying they're 18, you're lying. Edited September 9 by Doc 1 Quote
Mr. WEO Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Doc said: You said "his side of the story" like it was just his word and nothing else. When the truth is they investigated fully and found the story (his, hers and everyone else's) to be that she lied about her age in order to have sex consensual with college guys. I don't think her original motive was to get them into legal trouble and I doubt any of them knew she was 17. It was basically kids looking to hook up. Then she went and fabricated at least Araiza's part in the whole thing, likely because she got caught by her parents and Araiza was an NFL prospect and had deep pockets when they went public since he had just made the team. And if she had been 15 or 16 and still did what she did, no, she still shouldn't be protected. Again being young shouldn't excuse you from the consequences of your bad decisions. The only thing I'll say is that if she had been 15 or 16 years old, I think it would be easier to spot. But if you say you can tell the difference between a 17 year old and an 18 year old, especially at a college party where they're saying they're 18, you're lying. by law, there was no consensual sex between them. yes his side of the story is that she lied to him about her age when he agreed to have sex with her on the spot against the wall of a strangers house. That admission is what got him off the Bills roster, as I said. just to get you on record, if a 15 year old is seen on camera telling a college man on the prowl that she is 18, she doesn’t deserve protection? Edited September 9 by Mr. WEO Quote
boyst Posted September 9 Posted September 9 On 9/8/2024 at 10:42 AM, gjv said: I'm not asuming anything, nor am I trying to read Matts mind. The Bills didn't have to cut him. The outcry was too much and even the fat prediabetic goofball who talks like he has jouls and an alcohol problem on wgr was running him out of town. Quote
Doc Posted September 10 Posted September 10 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: by law, there was no consensual sex between them. yes his side of the story is that she lied to him about her age when he agreed to have sex with her on the spot against the wall of a strangers house. That admission is what got him off the Bills roster, as I said. just to get you on record, if a 15 year old is seen on camera telling a college man on the prowl that she is 18, she doesn’t deserve protection? Consensual meaning it was mutually agreed upon and no one was forced. What got him off the roster was the public outcry because of the way it was framed and the timing of it, all of which was intentional. Six months later the accuser and her lawyer and everyone who vilified him has egg on their faces. And I doubt any 15 year old would pass for 18. That's the point: she looked like she could be 18. Quote
Mr. WEO Posted September 10 Posted September 10 10 hours ago, Doc said: Consensual meaning it was mutually agreed upon and no one was forced. What got him off the roster was the public outcry because of the way it was framed and the timing of it, all of which was intentional. Six months later the accuser and her lawyer and everyone who vilified him has egg on their faces. And I doubt any 15 year old would pass for 18. That's the point: she looked like she could be 18. That's not a legal definition. The law doesn't account for your doubts. just answer the question. Quote
Doc Posted September 10 Posted September 10 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: That's not a legal definition. The law doesn't account for your doubts. just answer the question. True, but if there had been any evidence she was forced into having sex, he'd have been charged with rape. And despite her age, she was held responsible for her actions in trying to portray herself as being legal. She couldn't hide behind "I'm just a child, I don't know any better and am therefore not responsible." Sure the law accounts for my doubts. If a 15 year old doesn't look like an 18 year old, the "mistake in age" wouldn't apply now, would it? Quote
Mr. WEO Posted September 10 Posted September 10 1 minute ago, Doc said: True, but if there had been any evidence she was forced into having sex, he'd have been charged with rape. And despite her age, she was held responsible for her actions in trying to portray herself as being legal. She couldn't hide behind "I'm just a child, I don't know any better and am therefore not responsible." Sure the law accounts for my doubts. If a 15 year old doesn't look like an 18 year old, the "mistake in age" wouldn't apply now, would it? You keep saying no 15 year old look like they are 18--that's bizarre on its face. But also beside the point. What if a 15 year old (or 14, or 13) says on camera, and tells all of her friends she did so...and they make statements to authorities to that effect? Is it still ok then for a 21 year old man to have sex with her, in your opinion. Quote
Doc Posted September 10 Posted September 10 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You keep saying no 15 year old look like they are 18--that's bizarre on its face. But also beside the point. What if a 15 year old (or 14, or 13) says on camera, and tells all of her friends she did so...and they make statements to authorities to that effect? Is it still ok then for a 21 year old man to have sex with her, in your opinion. Why? How many 15 year olds have you seen that look like they could be 18? None. And if a 15 year old looks 15, can you use "mistake in age" as a defense? No, you can't. An adult knowingly having sex with a child isn't OK. Again the law wasn't mean to protect someone like her. Quote
boyst Posted September 10 Posted September 10 Can we start a go fund me for these two to take a romantic trip to Paris or Toledo? 1 Quote
Doc Posted September 10 Posted September 10 1 hour ago, boyst said: Can we start a go fund me for these two to take a romantic trip to Paris or Toledo? Why? What happened to Araiza can happen to anyone, right? Quote
Mr. WEO Posted September 10 Posted September 10 2 hours ago, Doc said: Why? How many 15 year olds have you seen that look like they could be 18? None. And if a 15 year old looks 15, can you use "mistake in age" as a defense? No, you can't. An adult knowingly having sex with a child isn't OK. Again the law wasn't mean to protect someone like her. what if her claim of 18 is on tape? How do you know you’ve never seen a 15 year old you assumed was 18? Quote
Simon Posted September 10 Posted September 10 1 hour ago, boyst said: Can we start a go fund me for these two to take a romantic trip to Paris or Toledo? It's nowhere near the first time it's happened and they are about 5 seconds from being told they are never to interact with one another ever again in this forum. 1 Quote
boyst Posted September 10 Posted September 10 30 minutes ago, Doc said: Why? What happened to Araiza can happen to anyone, right? i don't disagree but i neither of oyu are going to get anywhere with changing the others mind. Quote
Augie Posted September 10 Posted September 10 1 hour ago, boyst said: i don't disagree but i neither of oyu are going to get anywhere with changing the others mind. Are you SURE? I mean, in 6 months and another hundred pages…..who knows? 😂 1 Quote
Just Jack Posted September 11 Posted September 11 19 hours ago, Doc said: How many 15 year olds have you seen that look like they could be 18? 16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: How do you know you’ve never seen a 15 year old you assumed was 18? I think we just invited a new party game. 15 or 18? 1 Quote
Doc Posted September 11 Posted September 11 (edited) 8 hours ago, Just Jack said: I think we just invited a new party game. 15 or 18? It would be an easy game... Edited September 11 by Doc Quote
Mr. WEO Posted September 11 Posted September 11 3 hours ago, Just Jack said: I think we just invited a new party game. 15 or 18? History has never known a 15 year old who could pass for 18! It's just impossible. Quote
Doc Posted September 12 Posted September 12 On 9/10/2024 at 4:03 PM, boyst said: i don't disagree but i neither of oyu are going to get anywhere with changing the others mind. It seems his has been. I mean if history is littered with 15 year olds who look 18... Quote
unbillievable Posted September 12 Posted September 12 I don't hang out with teenagers enough to correctly identify the difference between a high school or college girl. I grew up watching 30yr olds playing high schoolers on TV. 1 Quote
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