ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 11:44 AM, ChiGoose said: Probably because Trump planned to withdraw the US from NATO (either severely weakening or ending the alliance), which would be a bigger victory for Putin than taking Ukraine. Since he lost the election instead because everyone was tired of his crap, Putin decided to continue trying to reconstitute the Russian Empire as consolation. Had Trump won, he probably would have waited until the US had withdrawn from NATO and then invaded. Expand The source on that? Anti-Trump 'journalists' from the Post and NYT... via 'anonymous sources' who were 'supposedly' White House aides. That's what we call... hearsay. 2 1
ChiGoose Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 12:49 PM, ArdmoreRyno said: The source on that? Anti-Trump 'journalists' from the Post and NYT... via 'anonymous sources' who were 'supposedly' White House aides. That's what we call... hearsay. Expand Didn’t realize John Bolton was anonymous and didn’t work in the White House. Also, Trump criticized NATO and his America First philosophy involved withdrawing the US from the world stage. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to expect that he would do something that he clearly wanted to do. 1
SoCal Deek Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 12:52 PM, ChiGoose said: Also, Trump criticized NATO and his America First philosophy involved withdrawing the US from the world stage. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to expect that he would do something that he clearly wanted to do. Expand You have got to be kidding me. Trump criticized our NATO allies for not "paying their fair share". I thought you liked that sort of rhetoric. 3
ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 12:52 PM, ChiGoose said: Didn’t realize John Bolton was anonymous and didn’t work in the White House. Also, Trump criticized NATO and his America First philosophy involved withdrawing the US from the world stage. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to expect that he would do something that he clearly wanted to do. Expand He criticized, maybe you disagree with his argument, that we were fitting most of the bill for NATO while other nations did very little and reaped the rewards of our military and $$$$ Germany and the US now pay around 16% of the operating costs. That's because Trump called out the BS. Before that, 3.3% of the GDP went to NATO (from the US). Germany was giving 1.2% (less than the agreed 2% for NATO nations). Of all 29 NATO allies at the time, the U.S. defense budget accounts for about two-thirds of that total. 3
ChiGoose Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 12:57 PM, SoCal Deek said: You have got to be kidding me. Trump criticized our NATO allies for not "paying their fair share". I thought you liked that sort of rhetoric. Expand And refused to commit to abiding by Article V. Come on, you cannot possibly believe that Trump didn’t want to pull out of NATO. His whole thing was about withdrawing the US from global hegemony and getting rid of multilateral deals in favor of transactional one-on-one relationships. Our allies were publicly worried he would withdraw from NATO and there’s no way Putin wasn’t aware of that. 1
SoCal Deek Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 1:05 PM, ArdmoreRyno said: He criticized, maybe you disagree with his argument, that we were fitting most of the bill for NATO while other nations did very little and reaped the rewards of our military and $$$$ Germany and the US now pay around 16% of the operating costs. That's because Trump called out the BS. Before that, 3.3% of the GDP went to NATO (from the US). Germany was giving 1.2% (less than the agreed 2% for NATO nations). Of all 29 NATO allies at the time, the U.S. defense budget accounts for about two-thirds of that total. Expand He also warned Germany about putting all of their energy eggs in Russia's pipeline basket. They, of course, laughed at him. Fools! 3 1
ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/8/2023 at 11:35 PM, BillsFanNC said: RFK nails it. Wait, don't tell me, he's a right wing Putin lover right? Expand He's 1000% right. This is a US v Russia proxy war and we could have helped prevent it... but Biden wants a war. He wants Putin gone and he doesn't care how many lives it costs. This is W. x 1000 because despite how many people died in the war vs Iraq, we get into a direct war with Russia due to NATO and Biden, we could see billions die. 1
SoCal Deek Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) On 5/9/2023 at 1:06 PM, ChiGoose said: And refused to commit to abiding by Article V. Come on, you cannot possibly believe that Trump didn’t want to pull out of NATO. His whole thing was about withdrawing the US from global hegemony and getting rid of multilateral deals in favor of transactional one-on-one relationships. Our allies were publicly worried he would withdraw from NATO and there’s no way Putin wasn’t aware of that. Expand Sure! That sounds about right. I'm going to use it three times in a sentence until I know that it's true. Edited May 9, 2023 by SoCal Deek 1 1
ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 It's pretty astonishing how some people on here think we didn't play a huge part in Russia invading. Proxy war. Proxy war. Proxy war. War = $$$$$ 2
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 12:49 PM, ArdmoreRyno said: The source on that? Anti-Trump 'journalists' from the Post and NYT... via 'anonymous sources' who were 'supposedly' White House aides. That's what we call... hearsay. Expand Ever hear of General John Kelly? John Bolton?
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 1:20 PM, Tiberius said: Ever hear of General John Kelly? John Bolton? Expand I have heard of Bolton. He's a big neocon war instigator and advocate most recently seen in Taiwan meeting with government officials there to stir up trouble with mainland China. Why engage in supporting one unwinnable war when you can have two or three? What I can't figure is how anyone assessing the current situation can conclude the war in Ukraine has provided any positive outcomes for our country. Our standing with allies and enemies alike has declined. Our leader is a feeble old fool fronting as President for some person(s) behind the scenes setting policy. A palace coup in progress. Every policy initiate domestic and international is a failure. Russia, China, Iran, India, and others have formed solid alliances. Both economic and military. Many countries are contemplating an exit from the dollar system because of concerns with sanctions and asset seizures if they anger Washington. Something they would have never entertained before. I can't think of a single country where our strategic relations are better. 1 1
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 1:46 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: I have heard of Bolton. He's a big neocon war instigator and advocate most recently seen in Taiwan meeting with government officials there to stir up trouble with mainland China. Why engage in supporting one unwinnable war when you can have two or three? What I can't figure is how anyone assessing the current situation can conclude the war in Ukraine has provided any positive outcomes for our country. Our standing with allies and enemies alike has declined. Our leader is a feeble old fool fronting as President for some person(s) behind the scenes setting policy. A palace coup in progress. Every policy initiate domestic and international is a failure. Russia, China, Iran, India, and others have formed solid alliances. Both economic and military. Many countries are contemplating an exit from the dollar system because of concerns with sanctions and asset seizures if they anger Washington. Something they would have never entertained before. I can't think of a single country where our strategic relations are better. Expand Investing in democracy pays out in the long run big time. Increases the human capital of the world, the peace and good order and promotes more human rights. 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 1:49 PM, Tiberius said: Investing in democracy pays out in the long run big time. Increases the human capital of the world, the peace and good order and promotes more human rights. Expand Peace through constant engagement in warfare. Yes! Thank you for that public service announcement. We now return our audience to reality. 2 1
Tommy Callahan Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 1:07 PM, SoCal Deek said: He also warned Germany about putting all of their energy eggs in Russia's pipeline basket. They, of course, laughed at him. Fools! On 5/9/2023 at 2:16 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: Peace through constant engagement in warfare. Yes! Thank you for that public service announcement. We now return our audience to reality. Expand That's their agenda. If we have constant small wars, it prevents the big world wars. Expand The mic loves it
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 2:16 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: Peace through constant engagement in warfare. Yes! Thank you for that public service announcement. We now return our audience to reality. Expand This republic was forged during war. Putin’s n hopes you guys let a republic fall, Yes, you and Putin
Doc Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 10:50 AM, Irv said: He’s got some rare throat disorder. Not dementia though. Hi. It’s the sand here. Bring your head back down in here again. What a mess. Expand On 5/9/2023 at 11:15 AM, ALF said: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. suffers from a voice disorder called spasmodic dysphonia, also referred to as laryngeal dystonia. It is a disorder where a person's voice muscles contract involuntary, leading to a distorted voice. Expand Ooops, my bad. I could have sworn I've heard him talk normally. On 5/9/2023 at 11:44 AM, ChiGoose said: Probably because Trump planned to withdraw the US from NATO (either severely weakening or ending the alliance), which would be a bigger victory for Putin than taking Ukraine. Since he lost the election instead because everyone was tired of his crap, Putin decided to continue trying to reconstitute the Russian Empire as consolation. Had Trump won, he probably would have waited until the US had withdrawn from NATO and then invaded. Expand What does NATO have to do with Ukraine? The answer: nothing. They weren't a member so even if we were to believe that Trump was going to disband NATO (he couldn't even if he wanted to) wouldn't have meant a damn thing. And Bolton's "Trump might have pulled the US out of NATO" is about as worthless and the paper it was printed in. 1 1
Irv Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 6:37 PM, Doc said: Ooops, my bad. I could have sworn I've heard him talk normally. What does NATO have to do with Ukraine? The answer: nothing. They weren't a member so even if we were to believe that Trump was going to disband NATO (he couldn't even if he wanted to) wouldn't have meant a damn thing. And Bolton's "Trump might have pulled the US out of NATO" is about as worthless and the paper it was printed in. Expand Bolton is a hack. He's always been a hack. He made up lies to sell his crappy book. Dude will say anything. What a mess. 1
ChiGoose Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 6:37 PM, Doc said: Ooops, my bad. I could have sworn I've heard him talk normally. What does NATO have to do with Ukraine? The answer: nothing. They weren't a member so even if we were to believe that Trump was going to disband NATO (he couldn't even if he wanted to) wouldn't have meant a damn thing. And Bolton's "Trump might have pulled the US out of NATO" is about as worthless and the paper it was printed in. Expand Glad you agree that NATO had nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s clearly not why Putin invaded. 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) On 5/9/2023 at 2:24 PM, Tiberius said: This republic was forged during war. Putin’s n hopes you guys let a republic fall, Yes, you and Putin Expand If you're paying attention you might notice what a fine and outstanding job the Biden administration is doing to "let the republic fail" all by themselves. No help is required. And what you and the rest of the warmongers don't get is that in the current version of that historical 1776 event most of the world views us as the British. Seeing and speaking the truth and reality is not supporting some foreign adversary, its called self-awareness. Edited May 9, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills
Doc Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 7:23 PM, ChiGoose said: Glad you agree that NATO had nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s clearly not why Putin invaded. Expand Glad you can read.
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