Allen willing to change

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

This is very wrong. 

I won’t 2nd the notion that he’s slow at processing. I don’t think that’s true. But he does seem frantic deer in headlights mode in situations where being calm and cool would probably serve him and the team better.

[Doc]

I'm sure Britt will be glad to hear this...

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just a little point that this is an article that re-hashes other articles without new information.

 

It's based on a 4-18 press conference with Allen

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2023/04/18/bills-qb-josh-allen-acknowledges-need-change-his-style-play/11688288002/

 

and Beane's 5-4 appearance on the Jim Rome show as quoted on Pro Football Talk

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/04/brandon-beane-glad-josh-allen-plans-to-be-a-little-bit-smarter-when-running-this-season/

 

What's my point, I suppose I don't really have one, but with a lot of news organizations laying off reporters and journalists who have worked hard in the industry for years, I guess I just want to say "be aware" if you're giving clicks to a site that might be parasiting off other folk's work.  I dont' think it's plagiarism, they do identify the original sources of the info.  But perhaps consider to give your clicks to the original journalists, or to local Buffalo journalists who actually attend the pressers etc.

 

Well, also it's got some very peculiar English usage, as though it's written by someone who isn't proficient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its just an article that popped up in my MSN feed so I thought it was a fun read and linked it.  I don't scour the internet or see every article on Bills stuff.  Also, just about every journalist writes stories that are based off others stories. 

 

I get your meaning but how am I supposed to determine who wrote what and took what from other articles?  You just linked me two articles after someone else already linked information about that as well.  If I never seen those two articles, which I haven't, then how am I supposed to know this?  Again, most journalists all write stories about the same information.

[Alphadawg7]

This isn’t that complicated.  Josh said this weeks ago, and he is very specifically talking about taking less hits by sliding more and getting out of bounds more on plays where he doesn’t need to fight for those extra few yards.  
 

Has nothing to do with running less.  And he said when he does need those yards or that score, he is still going to be him and do what it takes to get them.  But he recognizes there are many times where he doesn’t need to fight for a few extra yards and take unnecessary contact and it’s those moments he intends to be better about and get out of bounds or slide to avoid contact.  
 

And this is all Beane, McD and even his own teammates want.  For him to be him and play free, but just be smart and reduce the hits by eliminating the ones where it was unnecessary or inconsequential to take them.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Its just an article that popped up in my MSN feed so I thought it was a fun read and linked it.  I don't scour the internet or see every article on Bills stuff.  Also, just about every journalist writes stories that are based off others stories. 

 

I get your meaning but how am I supposed to determine who wrote what and took what from other articles?  You just linked me two articles after someone else already linked information about that as well.  If I never seen those two articles, which I haven't, then how am I supposed to know this?  Again, most journalists all write stories about the same information.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the defensive.  And it's becoming so common I don't know if it's something worthwhile asking folks to look out for

 

To me there are 3 clues:

1) news organization I've never heard of, "bolavip US"

2) non-idiomatic English

3) all the information provided references other sources

 

I don't like to see "a bird trying to fly on another bird's wings" so I'll look for the original source vs propagating what I see as a copycatter

 

This could entirely be a "me problem" though, so please don't feel you must defend yourself, it's not my intention to attack or criticize you - just to point out what I think is going on, that may hurt the journalists who actually dig up information and attend press conferences and break stories.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I won’t 2nd the notion that he’s slow at processing. I don’t think that’s true. But he does seem frantic deer in headlights mode in situations where being calm and cool would probably serve him and the team better.

 

Nobody said he was slow at processing fwiw.

[offyourocker]

I think the biggest improvement he can make is using shorts passes.  They did a fantastic job of that in 2021.  They did not last year.  He was constantly looking for the big plays.  Big plays come a lot easier when you consistently make the short ones

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

And if he doesn't, what are they going to do bench him?

 

This has been a "wish list" for Allen going on at least three years now. Believe it when I see it. 

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This isn’t that complicated.  Josh said this weeks ago, and he is very specifically talking about taking less hits by sliding more and getting out of bounds more on plays where he doesn’t need to fight for those extra few yards.  
 

Has nothing to do with running less.  And he said when he does need those yards or that score, he is still going to be him and do what it takes to get them.  But he recognizes there are many times where he doesn’t need to fight for a few extra yards and take unnecessary contact and it’s those moments he intends to be better about and get out of bounds or slide to avoid contact.  
 

And this is all Beane, McD and even his own teammates want.  For him to be him and play free, but just be smart and reduce the hits by eliminating the ones where it was unnecessary or inconsequential to take them.  

 

All of this was said by everyone before last season and none of it materialized. We will see how this season plays out. It's not easy to change how a player is wired. May take many seasons, may never happen. Knock on wood, Allen's running has not negatively affected him up to this point. But he is only a couple years away from where Cam Newton started to tail off I think. Newton was never the QB Allen was but still, I'd like to not see Allen decline at any amount for at least another 5 seasons.

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody said he was slow at processing fwiw.

so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is the best oline he has played behind too (although whether that was talent or my theory that in empty stadiums with games already feeling soulless the NFL intentionally backed off calling offensive holding is debatable). 

 

 

 

That's right.  I do remember hearing something about less holding calls IIRC. 

 

I looked up total league wide penalties (didn't find just offensive holding):

 

2015 - 4,326

2016 - 4,164

2017 - 4,166

2018 - 4,205

2019 - 4,278

2020 - 3,499

2021 - 3,909

2022 - 3,726

 

The totals for all years include playoff games played as well. Factor in, one additional game being played starting in 2021 for all teams and you see that we have pretty much stayed at the 2020 level of officiating. Drastic difference between the last three seasons and the proceeding five. Allen and the Bills offense/o-line should have about the same benefits in 2021 and 2022 that they had in 2020. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?

 

It means it isn't an elite trait of his. Elite Quarterbacks are not built out of 100% elite traits. Each one has 3 or 4 things that are elite that separate them. I don't think processing is among them for Josh. His elite traits are arm, athleticism, ability to create outside structure and competitive fire. It doesn't mean he is a slow processor relative to the cadre of NFL starting Quarterbacks. He clearly isn't. But I think protection matters to Josh more than weapons. Because every receiver who plays with him has a career year regardless.

26 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

That's right.  I do remember hearing something about less holding calls IIRC. 

 

I looked up total league wide penalties (didn't find just offensive holding):

 

2015 - 4,326

2016 - 4,164

2017 - 4,166

2018 - 4,205

2019 - 4,278

2020 - 3,499

2021 - 3,909

2022 - 3,726

 

The totals for all years include playoff games played as well. Factor in, one additional game being played starting in 2021 for all teams and you see that we have pretty much stayed at the 2020 level of officiating. Drastic difference between the last three seasons and the proceeding five. Allen and the Bills offense/o-line should have about the same benefits in 2021 and 2022 that they had in 2020. 

 

Interesting, thanks. They definitely backed off in 2020, my perception was it had gone back up... but that might be the Bills oline playing worse in 21 and 22.

Edited May 7, 2023 by GunnerBill

[PrimeTime101]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It means it isn't an elite trait of his. Elite Quarterbacks are not built out of 100% elite traits. Each one has 3 or 4 things that are elite that separate them. I don't think processing is among them for Josh. His elite traits are arm, athleticism, ability to create outside structure and competitive fire. It doesn't mean he is a slow processor relative to the cadre of NFL starting Quarterbacks. He clearly isn't. But I think protection matters to Josh more than weapons. Because every receiver who plays with him has a career year regardless.

your ignoring my question based on what you said to someone else. You say that he is not an elite processor and another dude said so he is slow at processing and you said "I didn't say he was slow"   Then I asked so "so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?"  and you completely ignored the question. IF he is not elite at processing then he is slower.. what else would that mean?

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

your ignoring my question based on what you said to someone else. You say that he is not an elite processor and another dude said so he is slow at processing and you said "I didn't say he was slow"   Then I asked so "so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?"  and you completely ignored the question. IF he is not elite at processing then he is slower.. what else would that mean?

 

I did not ignore the question, at all. It is about what your baseline is. Compared to the average NFL QB Josh is a good processor. Compared to the very best processors he is a tick below. There is a big gap between "elite" and "slow". I never said slow. Nor did I dispute "slower" because compared to a Joe Burrow, yea he is slower... but he isn't slow.

[BarleyNY]

21 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

 

That's not what Beane and McD are talking about.  They said they're fine with him running, but he needs to not take unnecessary hits like where he lowers his shoulder and delivers a hit when just running out of bounds or sliding is the better option.

 

Beane was on Green Light with Chris Long and specifically mentioned the Vikings game after he injured his elbow against the Jets.  Docs said he'd likely miss 1-3 weeks.  Josh said he could play that week and the Doc said he'd only clear him if Josh agreed to protect himself.  Beane said 2nd quarter he's running, already had the first down at midfield and instead of sliding, lowers his shoulder against an oncoming Safety.

 

Those are the unnecessary hits they're talking about.

 

I agree. It’s also on the coaching staff to rein him in. They should’ve pulled him from that Vikings game, at least long enough to get the message through. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree. It’s also on the coaching staff to rein him in. They should’ve pulled him from that Vikings game, at least long enough to get the message through. 

 

The thing is it is a bit incumbent on Josh. He has to know he is the freaking franchise. 

[BarleyNY]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is it is a bit incumbent on Josh. He has to know he is the freaking franchise. 

Absolutely. But in a situation like what was discussed - Allen agreed to protect himself as a condition of getting cleared to play, but didn’t do so. Watching a couple series from the sideline could’ve reinforced the importance of protecting himself, especially in those circumstances. 

[Tanoros]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?

How many players are truly elite at any one trait? Not everyone can be elite, or else it diminishes the value. For instance, Allen is an elite runner. No one will deny that. Burrow on the other hand isn’t an elite runner. However, one can still be better than average at a trait while not being elite. Burrow certainly appears to be an elite processor, and better than Allen. If Allen is elite, then what do you call Burrow who is better? See what I mean by diminishing the value? 

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody said he was slow at processing fwiw.

Right on. 🍺

[Tanoros]

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Absolutely. But in a situation like what was discussed - Allen agreed to protect himself as a condition of getting cleared to play, but didn’t do so. Watching a couple series from the sideline could’ve reinforced the importance of protecting himself, especially in those circumstances. 

I agree with you. If McDermott and Beane really want Allen to protect himself more, they need to be willing to make a point when/if the opportunity presents itself and that Vikings game as referenced in the article was that time. He does against what he agreed to as a condition of continued play. Allen’s long term health is more important than any one game or season. However, in the moment of a game/season I can understand how that can be a hard perspective to maintain, but the coach/GM need to hold that perspective (especially the GM). 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did not ignore the question, at all. It is about what your baseline is. Compared to the average NFL QB Josh is a good processor. Compared to the very best processors he is a tick below. There is a big gap between "elite" and "slow". I never said slow. Nor did I dispute "slower" because compared to a Joe Burrow, yea he is slower... but he isn't slow.

ok, and this is fair.. its all i asked lol. Some feel he is slow... and it drives me NUTS! that is why I wanted the bottom line from you.

 

Thank You!