Allen willing to change

[Billz4ever]

28 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

It’s not totally crazy.  Brady made a second career of simply killing plays that weren’t there from the snap.

 

thd ball would hit his hands…know the play was a bust…and kill it.

 

no scrambling. No getting hit.  No wild throws that were intercepted or getting sacked and fumbled.

 

just an immediate fire it into the ground.

 

and everyone made okay.

 

the Qb States clean and healthy and the game continued on with many more opportunities to score and win in the remainder of the game.

 

not every third down as equal you don’t have to risk everything in the first quarter of a scoreless game or the second quarter of the game when you are down by a field goal.

 

What would need, is to realize the situation that you’re in.  And understand that every play is not “life and death”.

 

Something our current bills squad for several years has not really shown an understanding of.

 

If Josh Allen just killed every play where it looked like there was nothing there, the Bills would've lost every close game they played.

 

Part of Josh Allen's game is his mobility and it has been an integral part of his toolbox since he started playing QB.  It looks like you want to have the Bills QB play like someone who is not on this team.  As I said before, Steve Young is a HOF QB and SB Champion by being a mobile QB.  The 49ers didn't force him to try and be something he wasn't and he played in an era where it was open season on QBs. 

 

You bringing up QBs who are/were not mobile QBs is completely irrelevant to this discussion and is an apples and oranges comparison.  I can guarantee you if any of those guys could move like Josh moves, it would've been a part of their game.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Billz4ever

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

6 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

stop bringing up QB's that were not great scramblers.  you can not compare. I agree with throwing it away and not getting hurt... you go back to your original message and say Josh Allen should not scramble? thats still crazy.

Let’s split the difference (disagreement)

 

don’t scramble at meaningless points in games.

[Freddie's Dead]

Josh is willing to learn....

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Unlike some I dont mind Allen running and think the designed QB run is fine. I'm in the camp that QB injuries are more likely in the pocket anyways. 

I want the hero ball to stop. Allen was far too careless with the ball last season and it made winning games harder. 

When its 3rd and 6 dump the ball off and let your RB take the hit making the first down. When it is 3 and 14 get 8 yards and kick the FG. There's only two opponents that you need to go all out to beat and that is KC and Cinci. Save the heroics for them.

[97bills]

Look up that hit from Jonathan Jones from NE. That’s what everyone is talking about. And there’s been plenty of those hits. 

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, Westside said:

Hopefully that means throwing the open short pass rather then playing hero ball.

Time in the pocket, a big new release valve and 2 speedy new WRs will help 

 

Picture Kincaid in the slot, knox on the line, but 5 can block so he can run a route too 🍆💦

Edited May 6, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[BillsM@fia]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Makes sense. The only 2 times he has been hurt in his career have been getting hit in the pocket.

 

I think if you do an injury comparison, the vast majority of QBs get hurt on hits in the pocket.

 

Murray tore an ACL while running out of the pocket...Tannehill tore an ACL while running out of bounds, but most injuries are from in the pocket hits.

QBs getting hurt in the pocket doesn't excuse exposing yourself to more/unnecessary contact.

 

I think it would be a terrible idea if we tried to make Josh into something he is not.  The running threat he bring makes Allen so dynamic.  What concerns me are things like not sliding, not stepping out of bonds and lack of situational awareness of times when it is necessary to make contact with a defender(s).

 

The coaching staff/front office have not done Allen a lot of favors in regards to the run game/offensive line as well.  He is basically are short yardage back.  To their credit, it seems we finally invested in the interior line.   We have also gotten bigger in the trenches and added some North/South type of running backs. 

 

 

[Gugny]

RUN HIM TILL HE PUKES!!

 

[John from Riverside]

To be clear, I don’t want Josh to change who he is the threat of him running out of the pocket when nobody is open as part of his game.
 

But these designed runs the ones where they plan to run him. These need to stop put players around him to carry this load.

[Goin Breakdown]

The only thing he needs to do in my opinion is slide. What the COACHES need to do is design plays where Allen doesn't have to be the whole freeking offense. 

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He isn't an elite processor.

This is very wrong. 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Let’s split the difference (disagreement)

 

don’t scramble at meaningless points in games.

We can agree to disagree but I am not "splitting the difference"   Its simple. If josh has scrambled and nothing there then YES he should throw the rock away, but you could not take the scramble out of Good ole Young, Current Mahomes and won't take it out of JA. 

[Matt_In_NH]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:45 PM, Big Turk said:

Makes sense. The only 2 times he has been hurt in his career have been getting hit in the pocket.

Chargers game he sprained his knee wrestling Joey bosa for half an inch at the LOS.   He also got turf toe vs the bucs running down the field. He got concussed vs ne running the ball and could not complete the game.  There is data that says a qb is more likely to get injured in the pocket but that does not mean they and he should not be smart about when to run and when to slide/go out of bounds/ throw an incomplete pass or take a sack.  

Edited May 10, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

 The majority of Josh's runs should come from scrambling with a few designed runs sprinkled in. But he needs to do a better job of getting down or out of bounds.

 

 Obviously there will be big moments in games where you can understand if he does take a hit or two to pick up a 1st down, but there's plenty times he takes defenders on when there's no reason to. One that comes to mind is in the 1st game of 2022 against the Rams. We're up 31-10 when Basham intercepts Stafford. After the return and taunting penalty against us we start inside the Rams 40 with 7 minutes to go in the 4th. Allen runs the ball on 1st down, takes on a couple of defenders at the end of the play and picks up 13 yards.  He could've very easily picked up about 10 yards and got down. Absolutely no reason to invite contact there, the game is already over.

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

the only time Allen should be running is on those few designed runs.

 

spiking the ball at the feet of your Blocking RB is not intentional Grounding at all.  It’s the move all Super Bowl Winnibg QBs who know how to fight another day have been doing for decades.

 

Scrambling is silly and pointless in unnecessary situations.  Just kill the play.  Save your body.  You’ll have plenty of more opportunities to win the game before the clock strikes 00:00.

 

Mahomes will scramble when the play breaks down too.  Wilson was an out of pocket passer.  Even Big Ben scrambled.  About the only one who didn't was Brady.

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Decent article about how Allen is willing to change his approach to the game.  

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-news-bills-gm-glad-with-josh-allen-willing-to-make-major-change-in-2023/ar-AA1aNByo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=febbd7a84f9243298cf8730389c79025&ei=13

 

Just a little point that this is an article that re-hashes other articles without new information.

 

It's based on a 4-18 press conference with Allen

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2023/04/18/bills-qb-josh-allen-acknowledges-need-change-his-style-play/11688288002/

 

and Beane's 5-4 appearance on the Jim Rome show as quoted on Pro Football Talk

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/04/brandon-beane-glad-josh-allen-plans-to-be-a-little-bit-smarter-when-running-this-season/

 

What's my point, I suppose I don't really have one, but with a lot of news organizations laying off reporters and journalists who have worked hard in the industry for years, I guess I just want to say "be aware" if you're giving clicks to a site that might be parasiting off other folk's work.  I dont' think it's plagiarism, they do identify the original sources of the info.  But perhaps consider to give your clicks to the original journalists, or to local Buffalo journalists who actually attend the pressers etc.

 

Well, also it's got some very peculiar English usage, as though it's written by someone who isn't proficient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Makes sense. The only 2 times he has been hurt in his career have been getting hit in the pocket.

 

I don't think this is correct. 

Allen has missed game time for 2 injuries:

1) UCL injury as rookie in 2018 - helmet to elbow in pocket.  Missed 4 games

2) concussion due to hit while running - Sept 2019.  out for the game.  did not miss more than 1 game, but that may be luck

So of the game-time-lost injury, 1 was in pocket, 1 was outside pocket.  50-50.

 

Allen has had other injuries but has not missed game time:

1) UCL tear 2022.  No missed time but admitted after season it was a tear and it affected his throwing motion.  Hit was in pocket

2) Turf toe 2021.  While running

3) Knee injury 2020.  While running; corkscrewed into the ground by Joey Bosa while trying to evade a tackle outside pocket.

4) "shoulder injury" 2020 trying to throw while being tackled vs. Raiders; outside pocket, trying to extend play.  No time missed but quality of his play declined for about 4 weeks, and he was seen wearing a "linebacker brace" then tape on his shoulder.

 

I believe that would be 3 injuries outside the pocket (75%), 1 injury inside the pocket; if you want to go by "while running vs while throwing", again 50-50.

 

Fortunately he didn't miss time for these injuries but his abilities as a QB were impacted by at least 2 of them.  Our new WR Harty missed most of last season with a turf toe so those can be serious, and there's an element of luck that the knee injury was minor

 

In addition, a character in a book I like has a quote "no one told me my body would add up all the injuries and bruises I took in my 20s and send me a bill in my 30s".  It's not just the reported injuries or observed injuries that are of concern; it's all the contusions and bruises and strains and minor sprains that add up over time.

 

To maintain his efficiency as a QB over a long season, Allen has got to be smarter about how he runs (Slide!  Get out of bounds!) and how he extends plays.  If nothing else, some of his worst strip-sacks leading to points for the other team have been the result of trying too hard to extend plays.  Check it down, throw it away, live to play another down.

 

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I think if you do an injury comparison, the vast majority of QBs get hurt on hits in the pocket.

 

That's sort of like Willie Sutton's alleged answer when he was asked why he robs banks, isn't it?  "That's where the money is"

The vast majority of QBs spend most of their time in the pocket.

 

Anyway, I'm 100% with Gunnerbill on this: to reduce the wear and tear on Allen, he needs better protection first and foremost.

 

7 hours ago, Westside said:

Hopefully that means throwing the open short pass rather then playing hero ball.

 

Ba da BING, @Westside for the win

Beane has been stockpiling guys with YAC potential.  Throw the ball to them and let them earn their salt.

 

And, while we're at it, run if you wanna run, Josh, just SLIDE.

 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Answer? Protect Josh. I actually think that is more important than weapons. He isn't an elite processor. So he does need half a second longer than Joe Burrow or Mahomes but his arm and accuracy when he is set mean if you can give him that extra half second he is more capable than both of making chicken salad with chicken sh*t at receiver.

 

What is your evidence for this?  Or, while we're at it, for the notion that Allen needs a half-second longer than Burrow or Mahomes? 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Beck Water

[Patrick Duffy]

15 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 The majority of Josh's runs should come from scrambling with a few designed runs sprinkled in. But he needs to do a better job of getting down or out of bounds.

 

 Obviously there will be big moments in games where you can understand if he does take a hit or two to pick up a 1st down, but there's plenty times he takes defenders on when there's no reason to. One that comes to mind is in the 1st game of 2022 against the Rams. We're up 31-10 when Basham intercepts Stafford. After the return and taunting penalty against us we start inside the Rams 40 with 7 minutes to go in the 4th. Allen runs the ball on 1st down, takes on a couple of defenders at the end of the play and picks up 13 yards.  He could've very easily picked up about 10 yards and got down. Absolutely no reason to invite contact there, the game is already over.

 

 

 

 

Yup that's what one of the main changes they want from him.

[Jerome007]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Makes sense. The only 2 times he has been hurt in his career have been getting hit in the pocket.

He was KOed by the Cheats in a long run, trying to get the extra yard for the 1st down. But indeed, most of the time, QBs get injured while trying to pass. 

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

What is your evidence for this?  Or, while we're at it, for the notion that Allen needs a half-second longer than Burrow or Mahomes? 

 

I think Allen is good as a processor, but I don't think it is one of the elite traits that separates him. Burrow is the best processor in the league IMO. You don't have to be an elite processor to be an elite Quarterback. I don't think Rodgers has ever been an elite processor either, but his physical talent and elite throwing mechanics have always more than made up for it. And the Green Bay Packers model has been to always prioritise his protection over his weapons (to his own frustration at times, clearly). Of course you want to give Josh both - protection and weapons - I said before last season I didn't think wr had done enough in either camp and so it proved, but I think protection is the most important. 

 

My evidence is the film. It's subjective, there is no simple metric that proves or disproves - but not for nothing his most consistent season was 2020 (highest passing yards, best completion %, highest ypa, most touchdown passes) and it was also the year per pro football reference he had his longest in the pocket pre-pressure. I think it is the best oline he has played behind too (although whether that was talent or my theory that in empty stadiums with games already feeling soulless the NFL intentionally backed off calling offensive holding is debatable).