Buffalo Fanatics has a point - Burrow is elite but JA is superior

[PBF81]

26 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The biggest knock on Allen at this point is the number of turnovers.  Due to the way he plays. he fumbles the ball and throws uncharacteristic INTs.  If he cleans up this part of his game, he will be unstoppable.  I understand that risk taking is what gives us those insane plays...but the bigger picture needs to be in place, especially when you play teams in the playoffs; those turnovers could be the difference between a W or going home for the season.

 

Consider the aspects of team play that he has to overcome however.  Perhaps he's playing that risky because he's trying to make up for obvious deficiencies elsewhere, including coaching.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

They’re both amazing in their own different way.  

“Everyone is beautiful….in their own way…..”

[Dr.Sack]

Switch QBs do they win? 

 

Burrow in Buf < Allen in Cin

Burrow in Buf < Allen in KC
Mahomes in Buf < Allen in Cin
Mahomes in Buf < Allen in KC

 

Cin and KC in 2022 had far superior weapons and elite offensive coaching. Their defensive coordinators were much better at game planning in playoffs, exploiting mismatches. 
 

 

[Beck Water]

"Superior is, as Superior does".

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

In my opinion something has gotten home to Allen. He came out and said “he has never been more focused on Football” But why say that? He doesn’t need too. We know his passion for the game, he literally has  carried the team on his back. He also said he needs to be less of a Football Player and become more of a Quarterback.

 

I am sure deep down he wants to go down as one of the greats. To this day despite the hype every season he has zero Super Bowl appearances, Zero MVPs and seemingly the team took  a step back last year. Of course I believe all the circumstances surrounding the team and his arm played a big part in that. Maybe internally he feels a bit of pressure.. I don’t know and I don’t think he should. 

I think Allen is going to come out firing on all cylinders  this year. Hopefully the arm is healthy and ready to go.

 

Good post. It prompted some thoughts.

 

If players or teams want to be better or be perceived better, then be better. We complained during the two decades that Brady’s Pats dominated the AFCE, but we never put up a competitive team otherwise during that time. A simple 10-win team would have made the playoffs often during that time.

 

If we want to be better than other teams, then be better. Be better at drafting, coaching, on-field adjustments, executing better, etc.

 

I took a look at the playoff stats for all of this year’s playoff games and noticed that defensively we’re on the low-end. We love looking at regular season rankings, but we don’t seem to want to look too deeply at our playoff metrics. All we do is cite our regular season rankings which don’t matter an iota come playoff time. I won’t list ‘em because too many people will complain, but one stood out.

 

In our last 7 playoff games over the past three seasons, we’ve allowed the following numbers of 1st-Downs which is by a country mile DFL, in our last playoff game of each season; 29, 30, and 30.

 

To add some perspective, of all 13 other playoff teams this season, of any playoff games that they’ve played over the past three seasons, not one has allowed that many 1st-Downs. We allowed 27 to the Colts in our ‘20 playoffs wild-card game, allowing nearly 500 yards and barely beating them at home as a result. Only one of those teams has allowed more than 26 1st-downs in the past three seasons in dozens of playoff games. That was Minnesota who lost to the Giants this past season, allowing 28, also in the wild-card round despite having played a very good offensive game.

 

Winners of the past divisional rounds much less Conference Championships or Super Bowl don’t allow that many 1st-downs, which are obviously correlated to yards and more indirectly to points.

 

This past season the winners of the divisional rounds allowed 20, 13, 19, and 15 1st-Downs. In the Conference Championships the winners allowed 18 and 11, and in the Super Bowl the Chiefs allowed 25 to the Eagles in a high-scoring game. We have allowed 27, 29, 30, and 30 in 4 of our 7 playoff games, and that has nothing to do with Allen.

 

In the 2021 playoffs the divisional round winners allowed 16, 14, 23 (us), and 20 1st-downs. In the CC games the winners allowed 24 and 16, and 15 in the Super Bowl. Here’s the thing, even the losing teams allowed fewer than we’ve allowed in four of our seven games.

 

We were ranked 5th in 1st-downs allowed this past season. Here are the regular season rankings for 1st-downs allowed for the other 13 playoff teams that outperformed us in spades in the playoffs;

 

2nd (SF), 3rd (Cincy), 6th, 9th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, 26th, and 30th.

 

So how come we rank 5th in the regular season, but over the past three years of playoffs we play, easily, to a 32nd ranking. That’s on average, it’s a country mile worse in our divisional games or AFC CG.

 

We tout our own regular season stats, but come playoff time we ignore how we underachieve those in huge ways. There are reasons for it an it’s not Allen generally speaking. If it weren’t for Beane drafting Allen neither Beane nor McD would be here right now and both would have joined the trash heap of former coaches and GMs that we’ve had.

 

If we want to be better or be perceived better than our top competitors, then how about drafting better, coaching better, making better in-game adjustments, utilizing our RBs better, allowing fewer 1st-downs, yards, and points than they do.

 

There’s a reason why Allen has to do everything and the other aspects of our game are behind weighed down, and why our draftees in general are not as good as those on other teams. We just don’t want to consider it generally speaking.

 

So if we want to be better, then be better, make yourself better. That’s what our opponents are doing, is it not. If we cannot do that, then it’s time to ask the tough questions that few posting here seem to want to ask.  

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Bills fans think Allen is better

 

Bengals fans think Burrow is better

[90sBills]

5 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

In my opinion something has gotten home to Allen. He came out and said “he has never been more focused on Football” But why say that? He doesn’t need too. We know his passion for the game, he literally has  carried the team on his back. He also said he needs to be less of a Football Player and become more of a Quarterback.

 

I am sure deep down he wants to go down as one of the greats. To this day despite the hype every season he has zero Super Bowl appearances, Zero MVPs and seemingly the team took  a step back last year. Of course I believe all the circumstances surrounding the team and his arm played a big part in that. Maybe internally he feels a bit of pressure.. I don’t know and I don’t think he should. 

I think Allen is going to come out firing on all cylinders  this year. Hopefully the arm is healthy and ready to go.

 

 

 

Unlike most here I didn’t like this comment from Allen. It screams a teenager trying to convince his parents that he’ll do better this coming semester because he’s very focused now. I’d prefer he’d just say we didn’t get it done this last season and will have to be better next season. Then work his butt off and do it. No need to try and convince people you’re focused now. What were you doing these last few years if you’re just now focusing?

[Shaw66]

Who knows?  Camp fodder?  Yeah, maybe, but what camp fodder really means is let's bring in some guys who are still trying to develop their games so that they can catch on with a team.   So, the Bills are the next team to help him develop, and if they succeed, they may end up with a marginal rotational player. 

 

Someone to fill a gap while we wait for Miller to return?  Well, he could end up filling that gap, but it's more likely that will be filled by guys who were on the team last week.  

 

I do find it interesting that the Bills seem to have a range of these guys who aren't true edge players, and aren't true DTs, either.  Shaq is an edge, but he can flip inside.  They play Basham that way, too.  It's that position versatility that McDermott likes.  Cline seems like another one. 

 

The problem with guys like that (similar to the problem of offensive linemen who are multiple) is that they are versatile because they aren't really good at either of the two positions they play, so they aren't the guy you want starting.  You want Miller, not Shaq.  You want Torrence, not Bates.   I get why McDermott likes these guys, because as the season wears on, you need help because of injuries, and McDermott would rather have guys who have been playing in his systems than guys who are added off the street.  That's great, but sometimes you just need talent.  

 

In Cline's case, I know it doesn't matter all that much, because he isn't likely to make the 53, but he's another example of a player philosophy that McBeane believe in that continues to give me some doubts.  

 

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Unlike most here I didn’t like this comment from Allen. It screams a teenager trying to convince his parents that he’ll do better this coming semester because he’s very focused now. I’d prefer he’d just say we didn’t get it done this last season and will have to be better next season. Then work his butt off and do it. No need to try and convince people you’re focused now. What were you doing these last few years if you’re just now focusing?

 

Well, again, it could be because all eyes are on him, and he takes the collective heat for all of our failures despite being the reason for whatever limited success that we've had.  I mean how much help has he gotten offensively from Beane?  (this draft and season waiting to see that is)  

 

Has coaching helped him out, to win games and advance to the SB?  

 

Has the D exceled in the playoffs?  

 

Has the coaching staff done everything that it can to utilize our RBs effectively to take as much heat as possible off of him?  

 

Meanwhile, McD never says anything in pressers and speaks in riddles, while Beane speaks in typical generalities.  

 

If Allen could focus on not having to put up 35+ points to guarantee wins, not have to overcome coaching blunders, on defense too, and could focus on purely his pocket passing, maybe he wouldn't feel the need to take 90% of the heat.  

 

It's difficult to respect McD while he hides behind lame statements made following bad or inexplicable losses without rendering any explanations whatsoever much less genuinely accepting responsibility, while Allen's hung out to dry and take the predominance of the heat for why this team has issues.  

 

Put Allen on the Eagles, Bengals, Chiefs, and even several other teams and IMO we see a different Allen.  Meanwhile, he says what he has to in order to try to keep the attitudes re: the team positive.  

 

JMHO  

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

12 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I suspect you're right.

 

For years I used to hope for primetime games for the Bills.  Now I'd love to just have 1 pm starts on Sunday.  I think as long as we have Josh that's not going to be in the cards.  The Bills are a victim of their own success.

But typically Allen has shown out for the Primetime games—maybe I’m wrong as I’m just going off tve the top of my head, but I feel like the majority of our reg season losses since 2020 have come in the 1pm window games? 

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Unlike most here I didn’t like this comment from Allen. It screams a teenager trying to convince his parents that he’ll do better this coming semester because he’s very focused now. I’d prefer he’d just say we didn’t get it done this last season and will have to be better next season. Then work his butt off and do it. No need to try and convince people you’re focused now. What were you doing these last few years if you’re just now focusing?

I didn't bother to stop and figure out why I reacted negatively to what Allen said, and you hit it on the head.   But I don't think it means he wasn't focused earlier.   I think it just means that he isn't a truly mature and precise speaker.  He understands that there's been a lot of talk about how the season ended and the fact that Bills seemed to have lost their focus by the time they hit the playoffs (I don't think they "seemed" to; I think they did), and he wanted to respond to what seems like a criticism out there.   I think he's a little thin-skinned.   He hasn't grown up enough yet to do what Brady and Rodgers did/do in their 30s, which is to say, "Look, we're fine.  There always are rough patches along the way, and we stay focused on the goal and get back to it."  In other words, R-E-L-A-X.   I don't think Allen has the maturity yet to say those kinds of things to the press, so instead we get I've "never been more focused on Football."

[90sBills]

18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't bother to stop and figure out why I reacted negatively to what Allen said, and you hit it on the head.   But I don't think it means he wasn't focused earlier.   I think it just means that he isn't a truly mature and precise speaker.  He understands that there's been a lot of talk about how the season ended and the fact that Bills seemed to have lost their focus by the time they hit the playoffs (I don't think they "seemed" to; I think they did), and he wanted to respond to what seems like a criticism out there.   I think he's a little thin-skinned.   He hasn't grown up enough yet to do what Brady and Rodgers did/do in their 30s, which is to say, "Look, we're fine.  There always are rough patches along the way, and we stay focused on the goal and get back to it."  In other words, R-E-L-A-X.   I don't think Allen has the maturity yet to say those kinds of things to the press, so instead we get I've "never been more focused on Football."

You’re absolutely right! I have no doubt that when he matures his game will be elevated as well. 

[78thealltimegreat]

15 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

While the last playoff game was brutal, some are putting too much stock into it (in more ways than one).
 

Playoffs:

-JA had one of the best performances by a quarterback in NFL history, going 27-of-37 for 329 yards and four TDs on the road

-In eight games, JA has thrown 17 TDs – Burrow has thrown for nine in seven games

-JA also has a higher passer rating, more yards per game, and more yards per attempt

 

Regular season (since 2020):

-JA’s Buffalo Bills are 37-12 when he starts in that span – Burrow’s Cincinnati Bengals are 24-17-1

-JA has also thrown 108 TDs to Burrow’s 82

-JA is second in adjusted EPA per play, behind only Patrick Mahomes – Burrow sits in 10th place

 

https://thebuffalofanatics.com/the-josh-allen-disrespect-needs-to-stop/?amp

Allen has been asked to do much more than Burrow throughout his career. If Burrow got in trouble he could always hang his hat on Mixon and the running game. In Buffalo Josh Allen was the running game.

[Shaw66]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, again, it could be because all eyes are on him, and he takes the collective heat for all of our failures despite being the reason for whatever limited success that we've had.  I mean how much help has he gotten offensively from Beane?  (this draft and season waiting to see that is)  

 

Has coaching helped him out, to win games and advance to the SB?  

 

Has the D exceled in the playoffs?  

 

Has the coaching staff done everything that it can to utilize our RBs effectively to take as much heat as possible off of him?  

 

Meanwhile, McD never says anything in pressers and speaks in riddles, while Beane speaks in typical generalities.  

 

If Allen could focus on not having to put up 35+ points to guarantee wins, not have to overcome coaching blunders, on defense too, and could focus on purely his pocket passing, maybe he wouldn't feel the need to take 90% of the heat.  

 

It's difficult to respect McD while he hides behind lame statements made following bad or inexplicable losses without rendering any explanations whatsoever much less genuinely accepting responsibility, while Allen's hung out to dry and take the predominance of the heat for why this team has issues.  

 

Put Allen on the Eagles, Bengals, Chiefs, and even several other teams and IMO we see a different Allen.  Meanwhile, he says what he has to in order to try to keep the attitudes re: the team positive.  

 

JMHO  

 

 

You know, I agree with parts of a lot of what you say, and a bit I disagree with pretty strongly.  Please don't take this personally - I'm not criticizing what you say as bad; I'm just saying there's an interesting discussion to be had about what you're saying.  

 

I disagree with this take you have that part of the problem is that McDermott doesn't say much of anything in his press conferences.  That's true; he doesn't.   And I'd say "get over it."   Some coaches say more than others.   McDermott obviously doesn't think it's very important to say much to the press, so he doesn't.   Belichick didn't, either.   As fans, we might not like it, but it has nothing to do with whether he's running the team the right way.  

 

I think you're right that Allen feels the need to do it all in part because the guys around him aren't doing enough.  And there's some truth in that, and it would be understandable if Allen actually felt that way.  The Bills have been tooling and retooling the offense from year to year, looking for the right players.  There has been a parade of receivers - every season the receiving corps looks different, because they're trying to improve it.  Same with the running backs.  Same with the offensive linemen, actually. (Defensive backfield is the exception.)   At some point, they should be a team where the same guys are back for two or three years and just get better.   I'm sure all teams have this problem to some extent, but the point is to get the right guys and hold on to them.  

 

To be honest, I don't know if that's a good way to run the team or not.  Time will tell, and some fans will have more patience with it than others.   

 

On the other hand, when you say Allen would be different (and would be winning Super Bowls) if he were on the Chiefs, the Bengals, or Eagles.  I'll grant you Reid.  Fine.  He's got it going, from a coaching and team perspective in a way that is sustainable, and Reid would do it with Allen as well or maybe even better than Mahomes.   But I'm not willing to crown the Bengals or Eagles yet.   Before last season the Rams would have been high on your list, too.  I'm not sure McVay is the genius everyone thought he was.   The fact is that it's simply very hard to have a team that goes for ten years during which they win one or two Super Bowls and makes the playoffs every year.   That's what Reid is trying to do, and that's what McVay is trying to do.   What about boy-wonder Shanahan?  Somehow, he isn't able to replicate that kind of success.   He's still trying.   Point is, McDermott and Beane are still trying, too.  They're among 32 GMs and HCs trying, it's just very hard to do it.  

 

What's McBeane's system?   It's versatility.  It's finding the right guys so the Bills can play well as many different styles as they can.  And because trends in the league keep changing from year to year, the players you need to play the way you want keep changing.   Maybe they're a rabbit chasing its tail.  

 

In any case, I don't see much reason to criticize them for not having won yet or not getting more out of Allen or whatever.  Not that there can't be discussions about whether other ways may be better, but the reality is that the Pegulas are believers in what McBeane are doing and they give McBeane more or less free rein to build as they want.  So, that's the team Bills fans have.  I have some confidence in them; I think they are building to success and they will get there.   Others aren't so optimistic.  

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

14 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

One has Tee Higgins and Jamar Chase and Joe Mixon.  
 

 

The other has Stefon Diggs Gabe Davis and Devin Singletary.  
 

 

 

Its Mahomes - Allen - everyone else.   

I think football fans need to be reminded that wins are a team effort not just the QB.

 

Otherwise Dan Marino would have 5 superbowls or Jim Kelly at least 2

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

52 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, again, it could be because all eyes are on him, and he takes the collective heat for all of our failures despite being the reason for whatever limited success that we've had.  I mean how much help has he gotten offensively from Beane?  (this draft and season waiting to see that is)  

 

Has coaching helped him out, to win games and advance to the SB?  

 

Has the D exceled in the playoffs?  

 

Has the coaching staff done everything that it can to utilize our RBs effectively to take as much heat as possible off of him?  

 

Meanwhile, McD never says anything in pressers and speaks in riddles, while Beane speaks in typical generalities.  

 

If Allen could focus on not having to put up 35+ points to guarantee wins, not have to overcome coaching blunders, on defense too, and could focus on purely his pocket passing, maybe he wouldn't feel the need to take 90% of the heat.  

 

It's difficult to respect McD while he hides behind lame statements made following bad or inexplicable losses without rendering any explanations whatsoever much less genuinely accepting responsibility, while Allen's hung out to dry and take the predominance of the heat for why this team has issues.  

 

Put Allen on the Eagles, Bengals, Chiefs, and even several other teams and IMO we see a different Allen.  Meanwhile, he says what he has to in order to try to keep the attitudes re: the team positive.  

 

JMHO  

 

 

I think your spot on and something else I was thinking about this morning.

 

Allen is the face of this Franchise. His Legacy will be decided by Rings and Super Bowl appearances. Diggs needs that as well… like these are 2 Elite players. 
 

 

From the outside I think Mcd and Beane get a lot praise because we have been a 10 plus win playoff team year after year. 

Other than this board,  this might be the the first offseason where I heard  1-3 media types begin to actually question if Mcd is the best coach for this team..I still believe the majority back him. 
 

I also think this correlates to him taking over the D. Leslie was not coming back and I don’t think he will ever will as a D coordinator…Even if it’s the same scheme I think it will look different..more mixup, pressure whatever. I am pretty excited he has taken this on.

Edited May 6, 2023 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Allen has been asked to do much more than Burrow throughout his career. If Burrow got in trouble he could always hang his hat on Mixon and the running game. In Buffalo Josh Allen was the running game.

Great comment.  I think you're correct. 

 

Charles Barkley said something the other night that I thought was interesting.  He was talking about being the star on a basketball team, but the same thing applies in football and particularly to Allen.  He said if you're a real star, like Embiid, you're better than just about all the players, and everybody knows that.  That causes your teammates to have a tendency to change how they play, to rely on you often.  The star and the coach have to get everyone to play THEIR game and to stop feeling like they're just the supporting cast to the star.   The star essentially has to be saying to his teammates, "look, you have to do the things we need to win so that I don't have to do it for the whole game.  My job is to win the game in the fourth quarter, if we haven't already won it."   None of the successful QBs is carrying their offense like Allen.  Not Burrow, not Rodgers, I'd say not even Mahomes.   Mahomes is great, and he's making star-quality plays (like Allen) throughout the game, but it never feels like the Chiefs really NEED him to do it.  

 

And that's not just on the coach.   It's on Allen, too.  There are great NBA players, incredible dominant talents, like Lebron, who just somehow demand the attention, rather than just being the guy who plays with the team until the fourth quarter and then takes over.  Lebron's been very difficult that way, and Curry has been able to lead but not dominate.   Mahomes is Curry, and Allen needs to become more like Curry and less like Lebron. 

[Airseven]

Allen is an elite athlete but he’s yet to become an elite QB. He’s capable of dominating games…he’s also capable of losing his focus, his mechanics, his poise, and can struggle to complete a pass for long stretches of games. Mahomes and Burrow aren’t infallible, but their floor - their relative consistency of execution from game to game - is so far beyond Allen.
 

The need for Bills fans to manufacture so many outside influences, so many hypotheticals, so much context in order to pretend Allen is the best is unnecessary. Just allow him to improve and perform and earn it.

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I agree with parts of a lot of what you say, and a bit I disagree with pretty strongly.  Please don't take this personally - I'm not criticizing what you say as bad; I'm just saying there's an interesting discussion to be had about what you're saying.  

 

Please, I enjoy a good and respectful back-n-forth, I wish there were more of it, not at all taken personally like so many others.  Allow me to respond to some of your comments in that same vein.  And please, feel free to respond back again.  

 

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I disagree with this take you have that part of the problem is that McDermott doesn't say much of anything in his press conferences.  That's true; he doesn't.   And I'd say "get over it."   Some coaches say more than others.   McDermott obviously doesn't think it's very important to say much to the press, so he doesn't.   Belichick didn't, either.   As fans, we might not like it, but it has nothing to do with whether he's running the team the right way.  

 

There's nothing for me to "get over," I have no dog in the fight.  It is what it is.  I do analyze it though, objectively.   From an analytical perspective I do find it a little discouraging to see that the things most negatively impacting this team generally continue to remain unaddressed.  But in deflecting heat from oneself while allowing it to settle on another under your charge, and someone that's essentially made you what you are, I do have a difficult time disrespecting, anyone and at any level, even employees.  This was about Allen however, not me.  I was defending him.  I don't care if I'm 100% wrong on everything that flows from my pen if we go 17-0 or 8-9, slip into the playoffs as a wild-card, and win the Super Bowl.  I'll be the happiest person on the planet at that time.  If we continue to "make the playoffs" with Allen at QB, and continue to underachieve and get ousted in the WC or D rounds, then I will be incredibly disappointed like most other fans.  But there's nothing personal on my end.  At the end of the day absolutely nothing that you or I do or say changes anything.  

 

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

On the other hand, when you say Allen would be different (and would be winning Super Bowls) if he were on the Chiefs, the Bengals, or Eagles.  I'll grant you Reid.  Fine.  He's got it going, from a coaching and team perspective in a way that is sustainable, and Reid would do it with Allen as well or maybe even better than Mahomes.   But I'm not willing to crown the Bengals or Eagles yet.   Before last season the Rams would have been high on your list, too.  I'm not sure McVay is the genius everyone thought he was.   The fact is that it's simply very hard to have a team that goes for ten years during which they win one or two Super Bowls and makes the playoffs every year.   That's what Reid is trying to do, and that's what McVay is trying to do.   What about boy-wonder Shanahan?  Somehow, he isn't able to replicate that kind of success.   He's still trying.   Point is, McDermott and Beane are still trying, too.  They're among 32 GMs and HCs trying, it's just very hard to do it.  

 

I didn't say that Allen would be winning Super Bowls, I said we'd be seeing a different Allen, for sure a more efficient Allen.  I firmly believe that we would be, and no, I didn't elaborate because I didn't want to deal with the backlash and tangents, but I will briefly here.  IMO he'd be more of a pocket-passer while using his athleticism only to escape trouble when absolutely necessry, which he wouldn't be facing with nearly the frequency on any of those three teams because their OLs are better, ... because their GMs have done a notably better job at doing that among other things.  

 

I was not all that high on the Rams and have even took heat here for stating that their success was largely hinged upon a soft schedule that year and some good fortune and peaking in the playoffs.  Not that that matters, your thoughts on McVay aside, IMO Allen would be different anywhere that has a significantly better OL than we've had, and that's a good number of teams.  

 

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

In any case, I don't see much reason to criticize them for not having won yet or not getting more out of Allen or whatever.  Not that there can't be discussions about whether other ways may be better, but the reality is that the Pegulas are believers in what McBeane are doing and they give McBeane more or less free rein to build as they want.  So, that's the team Bills fans have.  I have some confidence in them; I think they are building to success and they will get there.   Others aren't so optimistic.  

 

Beane's had 6 drafts now, so I'm not sure "how much time" he needs.  Others have done it in far less.  As to the Pegulas, who cares, Kim's entirely out of the picture now and Terry has implied if not all but admitted that he's not a football guy like that and he takes no active role in overseeing the team.   The Pegulas are not germane to the discussion.  How many owners have supported underachieving GMs and HCs in the past, and even now, today.  

 

My biggest issue, since apparently it wasn't clear, was that Allen's taking more heat than he should be, and much of that has to do with McD.  Your supportive statements re: McD above aside, what does it say for a coach that preaches character and integrity, that refuses to address the biggest reasons why his team loses games, and coaching related, not QB related, and leaves his QB out there to address the media on the topic?  In my book it doesn't say very much and is hypocritical.  You validated that McD has done that, so do you support it?  Do you think that it's good form for someone that preaches (almost literally) integrity and character?  Because I don't, I think it sends a poor message to be frank.  

 

Allen's trying to be the consummate "team player" in the proverbial sense in this regard, but taking far more heat and responsibility than he should be, and taking it for both Beane's and McD's errors, shortcomings, and mistakes.  I mean seriously, allowing an average of 393 yards and over 24 1st-downs in 7 playoff games over the past three seasons is hardly Allen's fault.  It is unarguably horrific defensive performance however.  We can disagree on all that, but I will say this, if that continues, I'm worried about Allen exercising his out in a couple of seasons.  It's nice to think that he'd never leave Buffalo, but if he continues to take a beating because Beane's neglect and/or judgment about building enough protection for him, thereby threatening the longevity of his career not to mention his ability to take his team to the promised land, and if McD keeps fudging up our defensive performances in the playoffs, like with those ridiculous alignments in the Cincy game, and do we need to even discuss "13 Seconds," something that McD has never come clean on, then Allen may opt to leave.  

 

In finishing this post, you said the following ... 

 

Quote

I have some confidence in them; I think they are building to success and they will get there.   Others aren't so optimistic.  

 

Beane has now had 6 drafts and McD's heading into his 7th season.  Defensively we've been tops in the NFL in the regular season, but in the playoffs we have regularly performed to the opposite end of the rankings.  The offense has essentially been all Allen, even for running the ball.  

 

Now it's commonly held that we're trending downward, and that both the Fins and Jets are trending upward.  What if one of them wins the division, or heaven forbid NE?  We have better talent on paper than all three teams.  And as to McD, to this date we still don't know why "13 Seconds" happened, or whom was specifically to blame for some of our ridiculous defensive alignments in the playoffs.  Why?  Because he, McD, hasn't come clean on it.  That's all fine and dandy, but then it leaves people to speculate and leaves the likely assumption that he was responsible.  Right?  But if refuses to clear things up, then he should expect people to put things on him, question him, and expect that if it continues, as it has, that it may end up costing him his job.  I don't think that's unreasonable in the least.  

 

So the question is, how much longer do you give both Beane and McD to "build success"?  8 years?  10?  15?  I ask in all earnestness btw.  

 

The issues we have continue.  So either we're hoping for a leopard to change its spots, or for enough time to pass for McD to learn in OJT fashion, how not to make mistakes that even the average football fan understands the basis for.  At some point, whether it's after this season, two more, five more, or 20 more, the plug needs to be pulled.  But here's the rub, if we wait too long, we forfeit the advantage of having Allen here, which is 100% of the current basis for hope on this team.  

 

Right now there's a stigma held by many, a good chunk of Bills fans as well as a majority of the national media and fans now from what I'm reading, that McD's merely another Marty Schottenheimer or Marvin Lewis, and neither of those coaches had a Josh Allen.  And speaking of Lewis, what if Cincy hadn't ditched Lewis and gotten Taylor, who's obviously a better coach?  Are you content to ride Allen's career out like that if that's the case?  I and many others view it as a tragedy if it shakes out like that.  That's essentially what we're talking about here.  

 

At the end of the day we have obvious flaws that are preventing us from winning it all.  The question must be which of those flaws are more responsible than others, and then let's address those first.  What much of the talk of Allen is about these days is his (personal) failure to take us to the promised land, when the reality is that he's that absolute last one that should be taking heat while parties more responsible take less than he does.  No?  

 

Parting thought ... pick ANY of our QBs during our playoff drought years, put them on this team over the past 6 seasons.  What kind of record do you think that McD would have had with those QBs of your choosing?  

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

Allen is an elite athlete but he’s yet to become an elite QB. He’s capable of dominating games…he’s also capable of losing his focus, his mechanics, his poise, and can struggle to complete a pass for long stretches of games. Mahomes and Burrow aren’t infallible, but their floor - their relative consistency of execution from game to game - is so far beyond Allen.

That's interesting.  And I'd add to that leadership.  No necessarily rah-rah-type leadership, but the kind of leadership that brings out the best in his teammates.   The leadership that causes everyone to execute in the biggest moments.  It says "We're going to win this.   WE."

 

It seems odd to hear myself saying it, but Allen has to become more than he is.  The guys who's asked to do everything has to do more.  He has to be part of the team, not THE team, and he has to lead the others to be better. 

 

I've often said that Allen reminds me of Elway - big arm, fierce competitor, great natural athlete.  Elway had the same problem.  He had to get beyond being THE team, like he had to turn down his pure athletic superiority before he could win.  It took him ten years.  Maybe what Allen needs is to dial it all back a bit, at least until the final drive.   I heard a story about Sandy Koufax stuck in the minors because he had a killer fastball and an unhittable curveball but somewhat out of control.  Some coach finally said to him, "Stop throwing it so hard all the time.  Just dial it back and throw it."  When Koufax learned to do that, he became an immortal.