Buffalo Fanatics has a point - Burrow is elite but JA is superior

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

While the last playoff game was brutal, some are putting too much stock into it (in more ways than one).
 

Playoffs:

-JA had one of the best performances by a quarterback in NFL history, going 27-of-37 for 329 yards and four TDs on the road

-In eight games, JA has thrown 17 TDs – Burrow has thrown for nine in seven games

-JA also has a higher passer rating, more yards per game, and more yards per attempt

 

Regular season (since 2020):

-JA’s Buffalo Bills are 37-12 when he starts in that span – Burrow’s Cincinnati Bengals are 24-17-1

-JA has also thrown 108 TDs to Burrow’s 82

-JA is second in adjusted EPA per play, behind only Patrick Mahomes – Burrow sits in 10th place

 

https://thebuffalofanatics.com/the-josh-allen-disrespect-needs-to-stop/?amp

 

 

I don't see a lot of disrespect for Allen, myself.

 

I mean, clearly the Cincy game was not good for him but everyone has bad games sometimes, absolutely everyone.

 

I'd take Allen over Burrow. I think most would, though Burrow will have a chance to try to change that over time.

 

 

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

Allen played himself out of the elite tier. He’s borderline top 5 at this point and needs to perform next season (with poise and consistency) to earn the hype.

 

 

Worth a double face palm, honestly. This is just a dumb take.

 

 

[SCBills]

To me, Burrow is the closest thing this generation of QB’s has to Brady.  
 

That certainly doesn’t mean he’s going to be as successful, but he just makes the right read and takes what the defense gives him 99% of the time. 
 

He doesn’t have the physical talent Mahomes and Allen have … they are in a league of their own, albeit with different skill sets, but both of them can get frustrated and force the ball down the field.   
 

Burrow will literally go the entire game throwing 0-15 yard passes if that’s what you’re giving him. 

[90sBills]

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

To me, Burrow is the closest thing this generation of QB’s has to Brady.  
 

That certainly doesn’t mean he’s going to be as successful, but he just makes the right read and takes what the defense gives him 99% of the time. 
 

He doesn’t have the physical talent Mahomes and Allen have … they are in a league of their own, albeit with different skill sets, but both of them can get frustrated and force the ball down the field.   
 

Burrow will literally go the entire game throwing 0-15 yard passes if that’s what you’re giving him. 

Not sure if you watched the AFCCG this past season. Burrow was the one forcing things deep for two ints. Mahomes was methodical.

 

Here’s hoping Allen will turn the corner as Mahomes has. Taken the short stuffs to move the chains. 

[julian]

40 minutes ago, SCBills said:

To me, Burrow is the closest thing this generation of QB’s has to Brady.  
 

That certainly doesn’t mean he’s going to be as successful, but he just makes the right read and takes what the defense gives him 99% of the time. 
 

He doesn’t have the physical talent Mahomes and Allen have … they are in a league of their own, albeit with different skill sets, but both of them can get frustrated and force the ball down the field.   
 

Burrow will literally go the entire game throwing 0-15 yard passes if that’s what you’re giving him. 

Agreed, and Burrow will make you jump outta your seat exactly zero times a game.

 

 Allen is a freak and highlight machine, much more fun to watch, It is entertainment after all.

[BigDingus]

Still disagree. Eye test shows me Burrow is slightly better, at least in the playoffs. 

 

Allen had one great, 2 game playoff stretch 2 seasons ago, and has only been average- pretty good the 3 other years. The furthest we got was a blowout in the AFCCG, while Burrow got to a close SB loss.

 

Aside from that, Burrow is just more consistent in the regular season. Allen has hot starts & some high peaks, but it's almost a guarantee he'll hit a mid-season drop-off where he turns the ball over a ton & gets in his own head. 

 

He's not far behind Burrow, but enough so that almost all non-Bills fans have cemented Burrow as the definitive #2 behind Mahomes. 

 

But hey, we can all look forward to arguing again about Allen's ranking being too low in the NFL Top 100 in a few months, where Burrow & Hurts will inevitably rank higher as Josh's rank slips into the 15-25 range 😅

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

I'd take Allen over Burrow. I think most would

 

I don't know how much non-Bills stuff you follow, but the general conversation on sports social media & traditional media has moved on well past the point of people taking Allen over Burrow.... like that's just not a conversation rooted in reality at this point anymore.

 

Polls, YouTube videos, Twitter, sports outlets, you name it, Josh's stock was falling before the Cincy game, and the Dolphins & Cincy game sealed it. 

 

Nick Wright & others successfully got NFL fans to focus in on Josh's turnovers, highlighting not just the sheer number, but just now bad many of them were. On top of that, they added all his fumbles together (not just LOST fumbles), to where you now see people calling him a turnover machine with 30+ fumbles & INTs combined. 

 

I know it sounds harsh, but seriously, I have not seen a single poll or video discussing QBs all off-season where ANYONE put Allen ahead of Burrow. Bills fans would, but we're the same group that still claim we'd take Allen over Mahomes, so yeah...

[CorkScrewHill]

5 hours ago, Airseven said:

Allen played himself out of the elite tier. He’s borderline top 5 at this point and needs to perform next season (with poise and consistency) to earn the hype.

It is so cute when you come up from underneath your bridge

 

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

In my opinion something has gotten home to Allen. He came out and said “he has never been more focused on Football” But why say that? He doesn’t need too. We know his passion for the game, he literally has  carried the team on his back. He also said he needs to be less of a Football Player and become more of a Quarterback.

 

I am sure deep down he wants to go down as one of the greats. To this day despite the hype every season he has zero Super Bowl appearances, Zero MVPs and seemingly the team took  a step back last year. Of course I believe all the circumstances surrounding the team and his arm played a big part in that. Maybe internally he feels a bit of pressure.. I don’t know and I don’t think he should. 

I think Allen is going to come out firing on all cylinders  this year. Hopefully the arm is healthy and ready to go.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[JGMcD2]

5 hours ago, chongli said:

These are all good points, and I agree Josh is the slightly better QB. But it's a little unfair to compare Burrow's first three seasons and not Allen's first three. Plus, Burrow led his team to a SB already with a newer coach. That's what the critics would say.

Age is a factor. They’re the same age… Burrow was a rookie at 24 and Josh was a rookie at 22. 
 

Their development has been entirely different. Burrow was at all of the elite passing camps, went to a Big Ten School and ultimately played in the SEC… he had time to work out some of the kinks before he got to the NFL.
 

He had about 300 more passing attempts in college than Josh did… that’s equivalent to another full season for Josh in college. 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I don't know how much non-Bills stuff you follow, but the general conversation on sports social media & traditional media has moved on well past the point of people taking Allen over Burrow.... like that's just not a conversation rooted in reality at this point anymore.

 

Polls, YouTube videos, Twitter, sports outlets, you name it, Josh's stock was falling before the Cincy game, and the Dolphins & Cincy game sealed it. 

 

Nick Wright & others successfully got NFL fans to focus in on Josh's turnovers, highlighting not just the sheer number, but just now bad many of them were. On top of that, they added all his fumbles together (not just LOST fumbles), to where you now see people calling him a turnover machine with 30+ fumbles & INTs combined. 

 

I know it sounds harsh, but seriously, I have not seen a single poll or video discussing QBs all off-season where ANYONE put Allen ahead of Burrow. Bills fans would, but we're the same group that still claim we'd take Allen over Mahomes, so yeah...

 

 

 

Well, first, here are three that do put Allen ahead of Burrow. Took me a 5 minute google search.

 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-qb-power-rankings/

 

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-qb-rankings/

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/rankings/qb-cheatsheets.php

 

 

I respect your post, Dingus, thoughtful and reasonable, though I disagree.

 

I follow a lot of non-Bills stuff, but I'm choosy, and offseason nonsense like who's the best at whatever position doesn't have a lot of interest for me. I'm much more interested in how teams are looking like they will perform next year. So I do miss a lot of the stuff you're talking about.

 

As for the people who do put Burrow ahead of Allen, IMO an awful lot of them are talking about right now. Kind of the same way you have to put the SB winning team first in your power rankings in Week 1 the next year. Allen's throwing arm was injured for most of the last half of the year. He wasn't himself, and I think a lot of the rankings reflect that. They're looking at right now, not expected future performance.

 

Among people concerned with future performance, I believe Allen at least holds his own. Probably the biggest group of people specifically looking at future performance is the fantasy folks. And lots of them are putting Allen over Burrow, I learned with another very quick search. Some of that has to do with running probably, though I am very much not a fantasy guy. But probably a lot also is simply that they think he had a bad end of the season and will be better. It seems likely.

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/rankings/qb-cheatsheets.php

https://www.draftsharks.com/dynasty-rankings/qb/all-players/one-ppr

https://www.rotostreetjournal.com/2023-fantasy-football-rankings-and-big-board/

https://www.espn.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/36312955/nfl-fantasy-football-rankings-2023-qb-quarterback

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/dynasty-fantasy-football-quarterback-rankings-uncertainty-grows-around-lamar-jackson-and-trey-lance/

 

 

The part of the post I originally replied to with such derision was where the guy said Allen was "borderline top five," and "out of the elite tier". That's utter nonsense.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Thurman#1

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I suspect you're right.

 

For years I used to hope for primetime games for the Bills.  Now I'd love to just have 1 pm starts on Sunday.  I think as long as we have Josh that's not going to be in the cards.  The Bills are a victim of their own success.

The Bills also now have a 700M+ bill for the stadium that they need to recover.  More prime time games gives them and the neighboring areas the business required to recover that debt.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 hours ago, Airseven said:

Allen played himself out of the elite tier. He’s borderline top 5 at this point and needs to perform next season (with poise and consistency) to earn the hype.

You're literally mentally handicapped 

[ddaryl]

Allens kryptonite is relying on the long ball too much. He needs to channel his inner Burrow and take what the D is giving him more often...

The problem as I see it is Allen doesn't have the outlet he had with Beasley before the injury and this is my hope for Kincaid to kind of fill that roll.


When the Bills show they can run the ball with consistency and Allen can force the D to realize he will take the underneath stuff more regulalry the long stuff should have more room IMO.



 

[PBF81]

Why do so many have the need to compare QBs and have "the best one."  Can't they all be good but different, isn't that what makes each special. 

 

The reason we haven't won a Super Bowl isn't because of Allen v. Burrow or Mahomes or any other QB, it's because of other reasons that there shouldn't be any need to explain.  

 

If we want more, it's pretty simple, then the rest of our team, including coaching, is going to have to be better than the rest of their teams, not just during the regular season, but during the playoffs.  Better drafting than those teams is part of it also.  

 

Put Allen on the Chiefs, Bengals, or Eagles this past season and I'm pretty sure his team plays better than ours did in the playoffs.  

 

All those QBs make the league and games better and more fun to watch, which is what the NFL needs.  

 

Kinda reminds me of the friend of mine that got married and at his wedding reception he comes over and asks me, do you think that [my wife] is attractive?  

[BuffaloBillyG]

Here's my thought process about Allen, Burrow and Mahomes.

 

Mahomes: 

If you put Allen or Burrow on the Chiefs instead of Mahomes...where do they finish last year? My opinion is with Allen they still win the Super Bowl. With Burrow I don't know that he elevates JuJu and Toney to be viable weapons. 

 

Allen:

Put Burrow or Mahomes on the Bills last year. Same question. I think with Mahomes we make it at least to the AFCCG. With Burrow MAYBE make it past the Wild Card round with the injuries this team had. 

 

Burrow:

Put Allen or Mahomes on the Bengals...with those weapons outside? I feel like the Bengals would win the Super Bowl by 20 at least. 

 

While I believe Burrow may be talented and cool under pressure...does he elevate the talent around him on offense or do they elevate him? Both Allen and Mahomes 1 elite receiving talent and then some nice complimentary pieces...Burrow has far more around him on offense. 

 

Mahomes had the best OL of the 3 blocking for him. Not an elite line, but better than what Burrow or Allen had. Both Burrow and Mahomes were supported by an offensive minded HC (and in Mahomes case he's had the benefit of not only Andy, but EB, Nagy who is a bad HC but good offensive mind and Mike Kafka....who killed it as a 1st year OC with the talent depleted Giants). Allen has had far less in the coaching ranks on offense.Heck the first QB coach they gave Allen was Dave Culley...who wasn't a QB coach.

 

So, when I talk all of the above into consideration I'm left with this:

 

Mahomes is the king. But he was built that way with the support of an excellent offensive staff. Given every opportunity to be a success. But he's like that rich kid that gets a Mercedes for his birthday and cries because it's blue and not red. He's had every advantage since entering the league and to his credit has taken advantage of it.

 

Burrow is a darn good player. He has been handed the keys to a Corvette and he looks really Cool driving it. But I personally think it's the car that makes him popular. Put him in a clunker and he just doesn't have enough to shine on his own.

 

Allen is the epitomy of that blue collar farm kid. He's given a rusty old truck for his 16th birthday.  It's his talent and drive that rebuild that clunker into a custom  truck that can compete with the flashy rides that Mahomes and Burrow drive. 

 

 

[SCBills]

If we’re talking public perception, nobody should be getting mad that certain pundits/publications will rank Burrow over Allen. 
 

Nobody cares that Allen played with a torn UCL for half the season and had a bottom tier OL with mediocre weapons and a team that ran out of gas heading into the playoffs…

 

He played poorly in the final game anyone remembers from him.   Against Burrow, who played well.  
 

Going into the season, Allen was viewed by many as the best QB in the league.  Their last glimpse of him was the 13 seconds game.  
 

I’d take Allen over anyone. He’s the most physically gifted QB in the league.   He’s never had the weapons Burrow has had or the coaching/protection Mahomes has.   My sincere hope is that Beane finally came through for his QB so that we can see his talent shine through without being let down by those around him.   
 

Edited May 6, 2023 by SCBills

[ProcessTruster]

ah offseason power ranking debates, now by position

 

didn't think we'd see these until June; things must really be slow

 

 

[ganesh]

The biggest knock on Allen at this point is the number of turnovers.  Due to the way he plays. he fumbles the ball and throws uncharacteristic INTs.  If he cleans up this part of his game, he will be unstoppable.  I understand that risk taking is what gives us those insane plays...but the bigger picture needs to be in place, especially when you play teams in the playoffs; those turnovers could be the difference between a W or going home for the season.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Allen is the better Football Player.

Burrow is the better Quarterback.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, SCBills said:

To me, Burrow is the closest thing this generation of QB’s has to Brady.  
 

That certainly doesn’t mean he’s going to be as successful, but he just makes the right read and takes what the defense gives him 99% of the time. 
 

He doesn’t have the physical talent Mahomes and Allen have … they are in a league of their own, albeit with different skill sets, but both of them can get frustrated and force the ball down the field.   
 

Burrow will literally go the entire game throwing 0-15 yard passes if that’s what you’re giving him. 

 

 

I think that is his nature,  he was a pocket passer without much run ability and though he has a good arm he wasn't able to excel without getting the ball out and throwing with anticipation.

 

But he also has the best WR corps in the NFL...........so we will see if they have some mis-steps at the position like the Bills have after the 2020 season.