Should the Bills move Milano to MLB?

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I hope that’s true, like I said earlier. I was reading up on him and watching highlights after the draft and kind’ve got excited. Then I heard the quote and got bummed, so hopefully it is a case of them not trying to pile too much on a rook.  

 

My reading of the coach speak tea leaves is that you can bank on it.

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

Zack Thomas was deemed too small and not athletic enough to play MLB coming out of Texas Tech.

Exactly. London Fletcher was 5’9” 240. He played 16 years.

[Manther]

4 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

I heard they are moving Benford from CB to S to MLB. McDermott playing his own 4D chess. 

[Bobby Hooks]

6 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

I don't believe in taking a guy whose shown to be one of the best in the league in his position and moving him where he is less effective. Now you got sub par LB play across the board. Doesn't make sense.

I feel like that’s the second time you’ve posted that now. Anything else to add, or did you just want to write it out again? 
 

And again, who’s to say he’d be less effective? What if, and this is a big what if, but what if he was MORE effective?! 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hooks said:

That’s fair, but also, and I don’t mean this as a shot at you, kinda boring. What kind of threads would we have here if all we posted on were exactly what the coach and GM have said? 
 

Just seems like it would be a board of Chris Brown fluff. 
 

Personally, I can’t wait for your thread titled 2+2 = 4 ; here are the things we know for sure. 
 

Josh Allen is QB, we have a Justin Shorter, etc. 

 

Where’s the intrigue? If we just posted the team quotes provided by every news outlet, without a little creativity, would we even need the message board? 
 

 

And I completely understand that stance as well. I've done a fair share of pondering and pontificating my opinions as well. There are still moves out there I would love to see and some of the hopes that Beane has for the way things may turn out and guys that may step up....well it's fair to question if they will to say the least.

 

At the end of the day all everyone here (well..most here) wants to see is just one Lombardi here in Buffalo before we end up in the ground. 

[Bobby Hooks]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

And I completely understand that stance as well. I've done a fair share of pondering and pontificating my opinions as well. There are still moves out there I would love to see and some of the hopes that Beane has for the way things may turn out and guys that may step up....well it's fair to question if they will to say the least.

 

At the end of the day all everyone here (well..most here) wants to see is just one Lombardi here in Buffalo before we end up in the ground. 

On that, we 100% agree my friend. 

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I feel like that’s the second time you’ve posted that now. Anything else to add, or did you just want to write it out again? 

For someone pretending to engage in “mature discussion” or however you put it, you’re awfully defensive and dismissive of counterpoints. Do you have a rebuttal for St or are you going to just do this childish stuff until this thread mercifully dies?

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

i was on record stating this almost immediately williams is not our MLB.  got roasted, too.

 

milano will move to the middle in a hybrid role. he will not be the same player he has been for us. i fear this will beat him up and age him quickly.

 

klein will fill in for the traditional mlb role on run downs. we really could use a donta hightower type for run downs. even a brandon spikes. if we had takeo spikes i'd pop a rod 6 to midnight faster than a blink of an eye.

 

regardless, the middle of this defense is now a liability and hoping that our front 3 / 4 has improved enough to cover this up. i am not sure they have.

 

I will go on record here saying your crystal ball is cracked in this instance.

 

I can't tell you if Williams will play MLB for the Bills this year or ever.  I can say that I don't think the Bills intend to take one of their best defensive players, an every-down player, and platoon him at a different position.

 

Milano is one of our best defensive players.  He plays 100% of the snaps unless the starters come off the field or he's hurt.  McDermott and Beane have both been asked about moving Milano to the middle, and have both unambiguously said no.  Beane also went on record before Milano's FA about Milano being injured more than they'd like.  He changed up his playing style at OLB the last 2 years and has been injured less.

 

So you're suggesting that they take a player who has made desired changes to minimize injury and who has been an every-down top defender at his current position, and move him to a position where his injuries are likely to rise and where he'll come off the field on run downs.

 

I think that's a Plan where you Lose Your Hat.  And a Plan where you Lose Your Hat is a Bad Plan.

 

Now mind you, I don't think Beane and McDermott speak nothing but the truth or the whole truth, but I do think they shoot straight enough that when they say, repeatedly and straight up, that they do NOT plan to move Matt Milano from his current role, and that they DO plan to have a competition at MLB between Dodson, Bernard, Spector, Klein, and now (maybe) Williams - who did say McDermott told him to learn both the OLB and MLB role - they said what they meant and they meant what they said.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Several on this board have pointed out to you that if one looks at the top 10 ILBs in the NFL today by several criteria - AAV contract (efficient market theory), rankings by several sites etc. - the average weight of these top-35 inside linebackers is literally 235.

 

So let's not write as though it's the coaching staff and "some on this board".  It's the trend in the modern NFL where in general, the passing game and stopping it are key.

 

Whether or not you're OK with what is, sounds like a "you" issue.

Yeah it is definitely a me issue.  Fully admit it.  I had the luxury of watching Bobbie Wagner play elite football for the last decade up close. He is 6-0 and 242 pounds and he has been the best LB in football and a first ballot HOF guy on one of the best defenses in the last decade of NFL football.   So yes I like the MLB to be a little more stout. 

But as I also posted I think instincts outweigh size - full pun intended.  Edmunds has none. Milano has elite instincts.  Hopefully one of these other LBs on the roster will step up.

For the record I also was early to point out that Edmunds was overrated while others said I was crazy. And look what happened, they let him walk.  

Also for the record, I really don't think it matters.  Bills have an elite secondary when healthy and with Miller, Rousseau, and Oliver have the ability to rush the passer.  A barely competent MLB to go with Milano and McD calling the defense should be good enough.  It's mostly all about Allen and the offense.  

 

[Bobby Hooks]

18 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

For someone pretending to engage in “mature discussion” or however you put it, you’re awfully defensive and dismissive of counterpoints. Do you have a rebuttal for St or are you going to just do this childish stuff until this thread mercifully dies?

As I’ve said, I respond in kind. That will not change. And I’ve already responded to him if you’d actually pay attention,  It’s only his opinion that Milano couldnt bring that level of play to the mlb spot. I feel differently. He’s already the mouthpiece of the D, he’s excellent in coverage, and has great instincts. Im not going to battle over whose opinion is right or wrong, that’s obviously a losing battle for both sides. 
 

Have you noticed there’s an actual conversation happening here, or do you only read your own posts? 
 

Much like the Goonies of Astoria, this thread will NEVER die! 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I will go on record here saying your crystal ball is cracked in this instance.

 

I can't tell you if Williams will play MLB for the Bills this year or ever.  I can say that I don't think the Bills intend to take one of their best defensive players, an every-down player, and platoon him at a different position.

 

Milano is one of our best defensive players.  He plays 100% of the snaps unless the starters come off the field or he's hurt.  McDermott and Beane have both been asked about moving Milano to the middle, and have both unambiguously said no.  Beane also went on record before Milano's FA about Milano being injured more than they'd like.  He changed up his playing style at OLB the last 2 years and has been injured less.

 

So you're suggesting that they take a player who has made desired changes to minimize injury and who has been an every-down top defender at his current position, and move him to a position where his injuries are likely to rise and where he'll come off the field on run downs.

 

I think that's a Plan where you Lose Your Hat.  And a Plan where you Lose Your Hat is a Bad Plan.

 

Now mind you, I don't think Beane and McDermott speak nothing but the truth or the whole truth, but I do think they shoot straight enough that when they say, repeatedly and straight up, that they do NOT plan to move Matt Milano from his current role, and that they DO plan to have a competition at MLB between Dodson, Bernard, Spector, Klein, and now (maybe) Williams - who did say McDermott told him to learn both the OLB and MLB role - they said what they meant and they meant what they said.

I agree. Leave Milano where he is.  That said Milano played MLB about 2-5 plays a game.  It was not frequent but it was regular enough that they would switch him to MLB and let Edmunds fail to rush the passer from an OLB spot. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

As someone posted the other day, how is there really a true middle LB when there are only two of them on the field to start with? 

 

It has to do with roles and responsibilities.

 

The MLB has the responsibility of making defensive calls to react to offensive formation changes.  He gets a speaker in his helmet and a green dot.  He has those responsibilities (and is playing MLB) if he lines up outside to blitz.

 

Also, one of the reasons the Bills have been a predominantly 4-2-5 team over the last years has been because Taron Johnson is really a "lite linebacker" on the field when needed, enabling them to keep him on the field (or occasionally subbing Siran Neal) on downs where other teams might go to base D. 

 

8 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

As I’ve said, I respond in kind. That will not change. And I’ve already responded to him if you’d actually pay attention,  It’s only his opinion that Milano couldnt bring that level of play to the mlb spot. I feel differently. He’s already the mouthpiece of the D, he’s excellent in coverage, and has great instincts. Im not going to battle over whose opinion is right or wrong, that’s obviously a losing battle for both sides.

 

Except it's not "only his opinion".  If the Bills coaches and FO thought that Milano could bring his level of play to the MLB spot, I think they shoot straight enough that they'd just say "we plan to move Milano to MLB and hold an open competition in camp between every other LB on the roster to fill Milano's current role"

 

Instead, they've said the opposite, clearly and unambiguously and multiple times.  When asked how they can go into the season without someone who has proven they can play MLB, they don't say "hey, in a pinch, Milano at MLB is our fall back option".  They say "we have someone on the roster who has proven they can play MLB, AJ Klein can do it.".

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[1ManRaid]

I instantly downvote any post that starts with "hear me out", regardless of the content.

[HappyDays]

Not surprised by the negative reaction, but I had the same thought. I can't think of any LB combination that makes sense using our existing players unless Milano is the MLB. He is the only one that we know for sure has the necessary processing skills to play the position in McDermott's defense.

 

I could see a world where Spector wins the job but that's only because I haven't seen him fail at it yet like I have with Bernard and Dodson. It's a lot to ask for a 7th rounder that was inactive for most of his rookie season, but that would be my dark horse candidate.

 

Beane did shut down the idea of Milano playing MLB in his post season presser but things change very quickly in the NFL. It may be that after seeing how free agency and the draft went they will recognize that they have no other choice.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by HappyDays

[Bobby Hooks]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It has to do with roles and responsibilities.

 

The MLB has the responsibility of making defensive calls to react to offensive formation changes.  He gets a speaker in his helmet and a green dot.  He has those responsibilities (and is playing MLB) if he lines up outside to blitz.

 

Also, one of the reasons the Bills have been a predominantly 4-2-5 team over the last years has been because Taron Johnson is really a "lite linebacker" on the field when needed, enabling them to keep him on the field (or occasionally subbing Siran Neal) on downs where other teams might go to base D. 

 

 

Except it's not "only his opinion".  If the Bills coaches and FO thought that Milano could bring his level of play to the MLB spot, I think they shoot straight enough that they'd just say "we plan to move Milano to MLB and hold an open competition in camp between every other LB on the roster to fill Milano's current role"

 

Instead, they've said the opposite, clearly and unambiguously and multiple times.  When asked how they can go into the season without someone who has proven they can play MLB, they don't say "hey, in a pinch, Milano at MLB is our fall back option".  They say "we have someone on the roster who has proven they can play MLB, AJ Klein can do it.".

I don’t believe for a second they’d tell us that. Because it would leave him open to criticism if he didn’t have the job come September. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

It would be very nice to have a good base 4-3 personnel group for when teams employ 2 TE sets or 21 personnel. I don’t know that we even have a LB other than Milano that I really want on the field right now though. Maybe Williams can be one of those guys and maybe Bernard develops. Klein and Dodson know their responsibilities but are otherwise limited.

 

One further thought on Williams: He’s light and is likely to have issues in the run game - especially taking on blocks - but we just added Poona Ford. If you’re going to have light LBers, then you want to put them behind big DTs - like Ford and Jones - to keep the OL busy. That is actually a pretty nice combo they put together. I hope it works out. 

Williams is only a few pounds lighter than Dodson and Specter, who are the penciled in starters right now for Mike. Kid was a MLB in college. 
 

Bernard and Milano will be the OLBs, Dodson starts the year at MLB and Williams takes over at some point.

 

Bills need to evolve from their base nickel defense, I believe they will. 

[Jay_Fixit]

19 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

I instantly downvote any post that starts with "hear me out", regardless of the content.

Thanks for letting us know.

[StHustle]

43 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I feel like that’s the second time you’ve posted that now. Anything else to add, or did you just want to write it out again? 
 

And again, who’s to say he’d be less effective? What if, and this is a big what if, but what if he was MORE effective?! 

 

Lol you sound stupid. You new to football? Smh this is where I make my exit. I don't debate with fools.

[Haslett_Stomp]

It will be interesting to see how things shake out during training camp.  I have only seen Williams play once, in the 2023 Cotton Bowl.  The kid was all over the field and was voted the game's defensive MVP against a USC team that was touted as one of the 4 NCAA playoff teams before losing to Utah in their last game of the regular season.

[Beck Water]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Not surprised by the negative reaction, but I had the same thought.I can't think of any LB combination that makes sense using our existing players unless Milano is the MLB. He is the only one that we know for sure has the necessary processing skills to play the position in McDermott's defense. I could see a world where Spector wins the job but that's only because I haven't seen him fail at it yet like I have with Bernard and Dodson. It's a lot to ask for a 7th rounder that was inactive for most of his rookie season, but that would be my dark horse candidate.

 

Beane did shut down the idea of Milano playing MLB in his post season presser but things change very quickly in the NFL. It may be that after seeing how free agency and the draft went they will recognize that they have no other choice.

 

Questions:

1) when did you see Bernard fail at playing MLB?  (The only game he started last season, he played for Milano)

2) when did you see Dodson fail at playing MLB?  Strengths/weaknesses?  (spoiler: Dodson has played for Milano at times, and also played base D)

3) can you explain the apparent belief that how a player plays, in one game their rookie year or their first game with a team, is predictive of their entire career?  (if it were, Josh Allen would not be Josh Allen)

 

I disagree that Milano is the only one with the necessary processing skills.  Klein has the processing skills - possibly better processing skills than Milano, from what the players say about him.  Whether he has the physical abilities to match the processing skills, or whether they can design a D that will mask them, I can't tell you.  Am I mis-remembering, or are you the one who pointed out that the first time you saw Klein on the field for the Bills, you thought he was the worst player in the league and then a month or so later he was FSU and won Defensive Player of the Week?  Part of that was how he was used, but part of that was gaining understanding of the scheme so that he could put his processing skills to use to overcome his physical shortcomings.

 

I'll help with Q2.  Dodson has played the majority of the snaps at MLB 4 times.

2020 9/20 vs Miami, W 31-28. (next to AJ Klein playing for Milano)

2022 10/9 vs Pitt, W 38-3 (11 tackles, 1 QB hit, 1 sack)

          11/13 vs Minn OT L 30-33 (3 tackles)

           11/20 vs Browns W 31-23 (13 tackles)

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water