Should the Bills move Milano to MLB?

[LABILLBACKER]

If it were me I would leave Milano alone on the outside.  I'd also play a base 4-3 with AJ as the Mike and Williams on the other side. You could choose your blitzer from Milano/Williams. 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Oh nice! That actually makes me feel a lot better about the situation. 
 

I do wonder why they couldn’t have said that earlier. I mean, you draft a mlb and you have a need at mlb. Seems like it could’ve been pretty easy to say, you drafted him to be a mlb but plan to take it slowly. 

I agree.   It sounded like a subtle change in the message.   

 

I think all that happened was that after the draft, Beane was choosing his words carefully, because he knew the press was going to jump on the Edmunds-replacement angle.   So, he was trying to shut down that talk, but the words he chose were more conservative than he actually meant.   

 

People should listen to him on Rome.   Maybe I'm imagining it, but after the draft I understood Beane to say Williams will be an OLB and the Bills eventually will give him a chance to play the middle.   On Rome, it sounded like they want Williams to be the mlb, but they're going to work up to it at a pace that works for Williams.  

 

It made me feel better, too, although not perfect.   No one knows if Williams actually can do it, but it's comforting at least to hear what sound like "we think Williams can do, and we'll take our time figuring it out."

[Bobby Hooks]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.   It sounded like a subtle change in the message.   

 

I think all that happened was that after the draft, Beane was choosing his words carefully, because he knew the press was going to jump on the Edmunds-replacement angle.   So, he was trying to shut down that talk, but the words he chose were more conservative than he actually meant.   

 

People should listen to him on Rome.   Maybe I'm imagining it, but after the draft I understood Beane to say Williams will be an OLB and the Bills eventually will give him a chance to play the middle.   On Rome, it sounded like they want Williams to be the mlb, but they're going to work up to it at a pace that works for Williams.  

 

It made me feel better, too, although not perfect.   No one knows if Williams actually can do it, but it's comforting at least to hear what sound like "we think Williams can do, and we'll take our time figuring it out."

That actually makes a lot of sense. A rookie already feels tons of pressure. A third round pick doesn’t need the added pressure of feeling like they’re the instant replacement for a five year starter at a very important position on a team with Super Bowl aspirations. 
 

I agree it could have been done better, but it’s pretty tricky trying to walk the media tightrope of giving just enough. 
 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[Beck Water]

 

45 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Not disagreeing with what you are saying Beane said.  It just doesn't make any sense.  Why not avoid overloading hi by just teaching him MLB?  What's  the point of starting him at OLB and then move to MLB.  I think this is all GM speak to save face on the atrocity that was the Bernard pick and buys him a little time before he is labelled a bust.  As of now Bernard is my choice for surprise training camp cut.  

 

This, combined with other things you've posted (that Milano was playing MLB because of where Edmunds lined up, for example) makes me feel you don't completely understand the role of MLB in McDermott's defense.

 

Give the Rome show a listen.  Beane actually spells out super-clearly what he implied in his interviews post-draft and what McDermott has said.

 

The MLB is the "QB of the defense".  His responsibilities go beyond what he's supposed to do after the snap.  He has to understand the role of 10 other players in each defensive call and how they vary depending on what the offense does pre- and post- snap.  He has to get all the other players lined up correctly and adjusted if the offense adjusts pre-snap.

 

McDermott earlier and Beane in the Rome show explictly pointed this out.  Beane said that Williams, in their view, has the physical tools to play MLB, but he needs to understand the defensive scheme, not only his role but the other players' roles, so that he can fulfill the mental responsibilities, and that they aren't going to put pressure on him to do that right off the bat.

 

This isn't some kind of GM-speak, it's the reality of NFL football.  The point of starting him at OLB and having him master that, is he'll need to understand that role intimately to play MLB successfully in McDermott's scheme and it might give him a path to the field in case of injury while he adjusts to a more complicated defense.  I think, though, that McDermott must have been favorably impressed with what he already knew or how quickly he grasped stuff when he came through OBD because that's when talk started about him "learning both".

 

56 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I got the impression from that presser that the question of Williams position has to do with how much of our defense he can absorb as a rookie.  He played in a 2 LB system at Tulane, but the defense was very basic.  If Williams can grasp the complexity of the Bills defense quickly, he could very well factor in as Edmund's replacement.

 

That's exactly what I heard.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Freddie's Dead]

How shall I put this?  ***** NO!!!

 

[Beck Water]

27 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.   It sounded like a subtle change in the message.   

 

I think all that happened was that after the draft, Beane was choosing his words carefully, because he knew the press was going to jump on the Edmunds-replacement angle.   So, he was trying to shut down that talk, but the words he chose were more conservative than he actually meant.   

 

People should listen to him on Rome.   Maybe I'm imagining it, but after the draft I understood Beane to say Williams will be an OLB and the Bills eventually will give him a chance to play the middle.   On Rome, it sounded like they want Williams to be the mlb, but they're going to work up to it at a pace that works for Williams.  

 

It made me feel better, too, although not perfect.   No one knows if Williams actually can do it, but it's comforting at least to hear what sound like "we think Williams can do, and we'll take our time figuring it out."

 

See, I kind of heard the post-draft talk a bit differently, maybe because I was mentally filling in the gaps.  Beane said something post draft like "he was the team captain in a simpler scheme, he'll have to adjust to the NFL and learn our scheme, we're going to start him out at OLB for now" and I heard "they expect him to take a minute to master our defense so they're worried about overloading him by plugging him in at MLB right away, but they expect him to play MLB eventually"

 

I think a lot of people missed the "he'll have to adjust to the NFL and learn our scheme" and "for now" and just heard "start him out at OLB" or missed the Team Captain/MLB "QB of the defense" in college part.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[boyst]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Playing 80% nickel like we’ve done the past 2 seasons 

 

Both linebackers are basically inside backers in a 3-4… milano has also played strong side the last few years in 43 and started at weak side when he was young

 

McDermott’s defense basically leaves them both at inside Backer …. One would be the Mike in a 34 the other Will

 

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I will go on record here saying your crystal ball is cracked in this instance.

 

I can't tell you if Williams will play MLB for the Bills this year or ever.  I can say that I don't think the Bills intend to take one of their best defensive players, an every-down player, and platoon him at a different position.

 

Milano is one of our best defensive players.  He plays 100% of the snaps unless the starters come off the field or he's hurt.  McDermott and Beane have both been asked about moving Milano to the middle, and have both unambiguously said no.  Beane also went on record before Milano's FA about Milano being injured more than they'd like.  He changed up his playing style at OLB the last 2 years and has been injured less.

 

So you're suggesting that they take a player who has made desired changes to minimize injury and who has been an every-down top defender at his current position, and move him to a position where his injuries are likely to rise and where he'll come off the field on run downs.

 

I think that's a Plan where you Lose Your Hat.  And a Plan where you Lose Your Hat is a Bad Plan.

 

Now mind you, I don't think Beane and McDermott speak nothing but the truth or the whole truth, but I do think they shoot straight enough that when they say, repeatedly and straight up, that they do NOT plan to move Matt Milano from his current role, and that they DO plan to have a competition at MLB between Dodson, Bernard, Spector, Klein, and now (maybe) Williams - who did say McDermott told him to learn both the OLB and MLB role - they said what they meant and they meant what they said.

see above

 

milano doesn't play olb. he plays an interior role. whats interesting is that klein played an outside role he lost to shaq thompson in carolina. klein went to new orleans and moved inside. 

 

milano will play more inside responsibilities. i think that may not be by design as much as it could be by circumstance. i do not agree with this premise but i see it as a result of poor planning at linebacker, poor scheming by mcdermott, and the only way to keep from getting our tail whipped in the middle. milano is going to be sucked into the middle of hte field a lot more.

 

milano is going to have a rough '23.

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

See, I kind of heard the post-draft talk a bit differently, maybe because I was mentally filling in the gaps.  Beane said something post draft like "he was the team captain in a simpler scheme, he'll have to adjust to the NFL and learn our scheme, we're going to start him out at OLB for now" and I heard "they expect him to take a minute to master our defense so they're worried about overloading him by plugging him in at MLB right away, but they expect him to play MLB eventually"

 

I think a lot of people missed the "he'll have to adjust to the NFL and learn our scheme" and "for now" and just heard "start him out at OLB" or missed the Team Captain/MLB "QB of the defense" in college part.

You probably are correct.  I heard it differently. On Rome it was like you just said.  

[BigDingus]

Nah... who needs LBs anyway? Just  eliminate the LB position entirely & throw out a bunch of safeties instead!

 

It's so stupid that it just might work!

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, boyst said:

 

see above

 

milano doesn't play olb. he plays an interior role. whats interesting is that klein played an outside role he lost to shaq thompson in carolina. klein went to new orleans and moved inside. 

 

milano will play more inside responsibilities. i think that may not be by design as much as it could be by circumstance. i do not agree with this premise but i see it as a result of poor planning at linebacker, poor scheming by mcdermott, and the only way to keep from getting our tail whipped in the middle. milano is going to be sucked into the middle of hte field a lot more.

 

milano is going to have a rough '23.

 

I think Milano plays sideline to sideline in our D.  I could be misinterpreting @Buffalo716, but I think he's saying that the role of the LB in McDermott's predominantly 3-2-5 D "maps", or is more equivalent to, the role of the middle backers in a 3-4 where the OLBs take on more of an "edge" role in pass rush and run defense - not that both our LB are playing equivalent roles or playing the inside of the field.

 

If you mean Milano's role may change with changes to the D, that may be - I don't have any insight into how McDermott may adjust the D to compensate for losing Edmunds.  I know when they had Klein playing for Milano for 4 games while Milano was on IR, they changed up the roles and responsibilities some.  Frazier talked about it in a presser, and it's one of the reasons Klein went from "zero to hero" in about a month (horrible looking play to DPOW).  If I were guessing, though, I'd guess that changes to Milano's role will be slight and there will be other changes such as playing more base D or "heavy nickel" or rotating one of the safeties (or all of the aforementioned)

 

But if you mean he actually changes roles and takes on the MLB role for the Bills (which is what I understood you to say in the post to which I responded) and rotates off the field for Klein in running situations - Nah. You can mark my post and I'll take my receipts if it goes down like that.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 hours ago, boyst said:

i was on record stating this almost immediately williams is not our MLB.  got roasted, too.

 

milano will move to the middle in a hybrid role. he will not be the same player he has been for us. i fear this will beat him up and age him quickly.

 

klein will fill in for the traditional mlb role on run downs. we really could use a donta hightower type for run downs. even a brandon spikes. if we had takeo spikes i'd pop a rod 6 to midnight faster than a blink of an eye.

 

regardless, the middle of this defense is now a liability and hoping that our front 3 / 4 has improved enough to cover this up. i am not sure they have.

You keep repeating you repeating  Williams is terrible pick etc, we get it already and moving Milano to MLB is a massive mistake, as ST Husle wrote, why move an all pro out of his position.  There was a reason Milano was put at WLB, take about putting a square hole in a round peg.

[RoyBatty is alive]

49 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.   It sounded like a subtle change in the message.   

 

I think all that happened was that after the draft, Beane was choosing his words carefully, because he knew the press was going to jump on the Edmunds-replacement angle.   So, he was trying to shut down that talk, but the words he chose were more conservative than he actually meant.   

 

People should listen to him on Rome.   Maybe I'm imagining it, but after the draft I understood Beane to say Williams will be an OLB and the Bills eventually will give him a chance to play the middle.   On Rome, it sounded like they want Williams to be the mlb, but they're going to work up to it at a pace that works for Williams.  

 

It made me feel better, too, although not perfect.   No one knows if Williams actually can do it, but it's comforting at least to hear what sound like "we think Williams can do, and we'll take our time figuring it out."

I agree.  Beane explained the MLB for the Bills "calls the plays" or helps set up adjustments which he said was an awful lot of responsibility for a rookie which makes total sense.

[jkeerie]

27 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

See, I kind of heard the post-draft talk a bit differently, maybe because I was mentally filling in the gaps.  Beane said something post draft like "he was the team captain in a simpler scheme, he'll have to adjust to the NFL and learn our scheme, we're going to start him out at OLB for now" and I heard "they expect him to take a minute to master our defense so they're worried about overloading him by plugging him in at MLB right away, but they expect him to play MLB eventually"

 

I think a lot of people missed the "he'll have to adjust to the NFL and learn our scheme" and "for now" and just heard "start him out at OLB" or missed the Team Captain/MLB "QB of the defense" in college part.

That's because people stop listening if they hear something they don't like or don't want to hear.  They immediately get reactionary.

 

You exactly captured what Beane said in his presser.

[Big Blitz]

Milano switched positions in college from safety to OLB right?

 

Yea he isn’t moving to MLB

 

He’s pushing 30 (28). 
 

 

I said it when we picked him I 100% believe they picked him to be Milano’s initial back up and go from there.  If Milano had to miss time they like this kid better then any other LB on the team.  
 

MLB is not a premium position.  

Edited May 5, 2023 by Big Blitz

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I listened to Beane on Jim Rome.  There's a thread about it, with the link.  

 

I think Beane said something about Williams that is a little different from what I've understood up to now.   It seemed to me that Beane said to Rome that they drafted Williams to play mlb.   The olb talk is just that they don't want to overload him with too much too soon.   So, they plan to teach him olb first and then move him as he develops and learns the whole defense, so that he can be a true mike.  Beane said something like he isn't ruling out Williams winning the mlb job earlier; it's just that they don't want to overload him.  

 

There are limits to the time coaches can spend with players.   I wouldn't be surprised if the team talked to Milano and Klein and Bernard and asked them to run a little informal linebackers camp to start Williams up the learning curve.  

 

I caught the Jim Rome interview, and was going to post the same thing.

 

At this point, I think Bills fans just need to accept that our coaching staff just sees the that position in a different light.  The days of Mike Singletary, Junior Seau and Ray Lewis are long-gone.  We have no interest in that kind of player in our defensive system.

 

The big complaint with Tremaine Edmunds was that (despite his large size), he wasn't really great at taking on blockers and plugging the run.  His greatest value always came in coverage and preventing throws over the short/middle of the field.  He always played more like an OLB.

 

It was always going to be tough to get a replacement with Edmunds physical characteristics.  But with us drafting Terrell Bernard last year and Dorian Williams this year, I think it's pretty clear that we are still more concerned with stopping the pass.  If that means being undersized compared to the traditional MLBs around the league, then so be it.  For now, I think the plan is for Tyrell Dodson to start.  Hopefully Bernard or Williams eventually takes the job.  If everyone sucks, we have AJ Klein as a fallback.

 

 

 

[Captain_Quint]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I had a similar though but Beane ruled it out the other day and walked back the idea that Williams could only play outside.

Yeah, he's been pretty upfront about leaving Milano where he is, too. I think we see Dodson and Klein at the beginning of the year. After that, teams will adjust, and we will need to plug someone else in as the season goes on. Williams may get some MLB reps later in the year (or maybe Bernard?) but I think he will be special teams for the most part. 

[Arkady Renko]

Remember when they moved Matt Darby to MLB? “43 is the mike!”

Brady would shout.  

[frostbitmic]

Milano - 6'0"... 223

Williams - 6'2"... 230

 

Spector - 6'0" ... 233

Klein - 6'1" ... 240

Dodson - 6'0" ... 237

Bernard - 6'1" ... 224

 

Williams would be the tallest LB, a few dozen wings and he'll be right up there with Klein as the heaviest LB on the team. There's no reason Williams won't be part of the mix for the 2nd LB job. Playing a base 42 the MLB role is a little different from teams playing a base 43.

 

Milano being the smallest LB on the team surprised me, he plays big.

[djp14150]

6 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

when it do it is

 

OLB

MLB

Nickel

 

We exchange size for the nickel

What’s the exchange? 2 nickels= MLB?

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Milano - 6'0"... 223

Williams - 6'2"... 230

 

Spector - 6'0" ... 233

Klein - 6'1" ... 240

Dodson - 6'0" ... 237

Bernard - 6'1" ... 224

 

Williams would be the tallest LB, a few dozen wings and he'll be right up there with Klein as the heaviest LB on the team. There's no reason Williams won't be part of the mix for the 2nd LB job. Playing a base 42 the MLB role is a little different from teams playing a base 43.

 

Milano being the smallest LB on the team surprised me, he plays big.

 

If Milano still weighs only 223, I'll eat my hair - starting at the roots.  I don't think that's what 6'0" 223 looks like.

But I don't think a few dozen wings would effect the type of physique change in Williams (or Bernard) we'd like to see.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beck Water