Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

well i am confused...or maybe  you are.  I do not follow what you are getting at.  My point was with a PSL here you get access to tickets to other events....and maybe buffalo doesn't care about soccer or college football but I assure it is huge in this market.  So if you were a cowboys season ticket holder you would have first dibs at tickets for these big events.  

 

There are like 9 million people in this market.  If you have a psl you can recoup some of your money by buying tickets to events like the cotton bowl, other college games, taylor swift concerts...etc....and selling them on the secondary market which is what everyone does.  Personally I think that sucks completely but that is what happens.

 

anyway.  The original point was having to pay these high PSL costs in Buffalo makes zero sense while in other markets like DFW, NYC, Los Angeles etc. at least there is some other perk to having the psl.

Long day I forgot about that original point

 

And regardless on if there would be more events at the new stadium or not... And if they got first dibs at a ticket

 

PSL is certainly part of every single new stadium now

 

Whether it's Los Angeles or Buffalo... 

 

Point of the psls was for owners to recoup money at the end of the day... I don't think they care if the fan gets more chances or not to another event

 

Every new stadium will have psls because the owner wants to get some of his money back

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Buffalo716

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Long day I forgot about that original point

 

And regardless on if there would be more events at the new stadium or not... And if they got first dibs at a ticket

 

PSL is certainly part of every single new stadium now

 

Whether it's Los Angeles or Buffalo... 

 

Point of the psls was for owners to recoup money at the end of the day

 

 

 

Yes but I think a bigger reason for them is it guarantees sell outs.  If all the PSL's are sold they can declare the games sold out sans a few seats they keep for the general public long before the season even starts...

 

there was a time when home teams would get blacked out because they had not sold out the game and teams would lose money. The PSL guarantees this never happens again.

 

They suck, they are anti fan and in a city like Buffalo it's an incredibly unfair ask.  It is going to change the fanbase in the stadium for the worse.  One of the great things about buffalo is that it is filled with blue collar real people.  When the cocaine and boob job crowd (as they are called in LA and Dallas) show up that is when your home games go to crap.  

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Yes but I think a bigger reason for them is it guarantees sell outs.  If all the PSL's are sold they can declare the games sold out sans a few seats they keep for the general public long before the season even starts...

 

there was a time when home teams would get blacked out because they had not sold out the game and teams would lose money. The PSL guarantees this never happens again.

 

They suck, they are anti fan and in a city like Buffalo it's an incredibly unfair ask.  It is going to change the fanbase in the stadium for the worse.  One of the great things about buffalo is that it is filled with blue collar real people.  When the cocaine and boob job crowd (as they are called in LA and Dallas) show up that is when your home games go to crap.  

I have lived in Buffalo my entire life I understand the people here... Buffalo certainly creates more of an SEC football atmosphere... We understand football we love it and we love to party

 

The league did change the blackout rules though.. you don't need to sell out anymore

 

I do remember games back in the day that were not on TV

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I have lived in Buffalo my entire life I understand the people here... Buffalo certainly creates more of an SEC football atmosphere... We understand football we love it and we love to party

 

The league did change the blackout rules though.. you don't need to sell out anymore

 

I do remember games back in the day that were not on TV

Those days are over. 

[MikePJ76]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I have lived in Buffalo my entire life I understand the people here... Buffalo certainly creates more of an SEC football atmosphere... We understand football we love it and we love to party

 

The league did change the blackout rules though.. you don't need to sell out anymore

 

I do remember games back in the day that were not on TV

I hear ya and that is what I am saying, what makes buffalo unique is the people.  Its always been the people.  Embracing the weather, the under dog role etc.   Its all great.

 

I have some great memories tailgating there.  Watching my drunk friend climb the rock climbing wall and ring the bell in order to get one of those giant Flutie Bars that was like a big nestle candy bar was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.  That was the bills jets december 13, 1998.  That season was so much fun.  Pulling into the neighborhood the week they played the dolphins and seeing Dan Marino dummies hanging from peoples trees was pretty funny!  

 

You don't really get those atmospheres in most places. Once the PSL's change the fans in the seats there is no going back.  

 

and the worst part is the people who will have to justify the price increases by selling half their games which means you will have huge portions of visiting fans in the stadium which really isn't a thing I am aware of there.  It is in all the PSL stadiums though.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I hear ya and that is what I am saying, what makes buffalo unique is the people.  Its always been the people.  Embracing the weather, the under dog role etc.   Its all great.

 

I have some great memories tailgating there.  Watching my drunk friend climb the rock climbing wall and ring the bell in order to get one of those giant Flutie Bars that was like a big nestle candy bar was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.  That was the bills jets december 13, 1998.  That season was so much fun.  Pulling into the neighborhood the week they played the dolphins and seeing Dan Marino dummies hanging from peoples trees was pretty funny!  

 

You don't really get those atmospheres in most places. Once the PSL's change the fans in the seats there is no going back.  

 

and the worst part is the people who will have to justify the price increases by selling half their games which means you will have huge portions of visiting fans in the stadium which really isn't a thing I am aware of there.  It is in all the PSL stadiums though.

What you might get is 70,000 DieHard fans tailgating in private lots

 

While only some of them go to the games with all the people who bought psls

 

But the private lots will probably party for the entire game while playing it on TV

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

They suck, they are anti fan and in a city like Buffalo it's an incredibly unfair ask.  It is going to change the fanbase in the stadium for the worse.  One of the great things about buffalo is that it is filled with blue collar real people.  When the cocaine and boob job crowd (as they are called in LA and Dallas) show up that is when your home games go to crap.  

PSL's are an absolute SCAM. In every city, but especially Buffalo.

At least if you are in LA or Dallas or NYC, you can theoretically justify spreading the expense among other events. Concerts, college games, monster truck rally's, whatever. 

In Buffalo, it's just the Bills. There is no apple-to-apple comparison to other cities that have PSL's.  You are paying an extra $5k, $10k, $15k, $20k, for absolutely NOTHING more than you were receiving with the price of a single ticket before.

AND it makes wayyyyy more sense in a situation like the Rams or Chargers or Patriots or Jets or Giants or Carolina where the owner(s) footed the entire bill. But here, in Western New York, the FANS footed more than half the bill AND then have to pay for PSL's. It's insane. Absolutely insane. 

 

Edited March 22 by Einstein

[MikePJ76]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

PSL's are an absolute SCAM. In every city, but especially Buffalo.

At least if you are in LA or Dallas or NYC, you can theoretically justify spreading the expense among other events. Concerts, college games, monster truck rally's, whatever. 

In Buffalo, it's just the Bills. There is no apple-to-apple comparison to other cities that have PSL's.  You are paying an extra $5k, $10k, $15k, $20k, for absolutely NOTHING more than you were receiving with tbe price of a single ticket before. In fact, they're REMOVING features. For example, club seats come with parking in the current stadium. In the new stadium your $20K PSL gets you permission to PAY for parking.

AND it makes wayyyyy more sense in a situation like the Rams or Chargers or Patriots or Jets or Giants or Carolina where the owner(s) footed the entire bill. But here, in Western New York, the FANS footed more than half the bill AND then have to pay for PSL's. It's insane. Absolutely insane. 

 

Yep.

 

I remember my friend getting tickets before the cowboys stadium opened in arlington, he had great seats at Texas Stadium in Irving...but in 08 when he went to the virtual sales pitch which visualized your seat...he realized his seat had a 35k psl and the price per seat for every game plus the two pre season games was 350.  Then to top it off the cheapest parking pass you could buy was 50 dollars to park in a secluded lot like a half a mile away.   The closer lots were 75 to 100.  

 

at least there you could finance the PSL over a 30 year period and just make a small yearl payment.   If what I am reading is correct and the bills are asking fans to pay up front that is crazy.

 

total insanity but that place in Arlington is sold out all the time, usually with 25k or so opposing fans however.

[Bob Jones]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Point of the psls was for owners to recoup money at the end of the day... I don't think they care if the fan gets more chances or not to another event

 

Every new stadium will have psls because the owner wants to get some of his money back

This part is sort of mind boggling, and also maddening. So the owners want to make tens of millions in profit every year, and have their team increase by many millions in value every year, and not have to pay one dime for capital costs, such as a new stadium every 30-40 years!? They want to “get their money back”, and never have to have any cost for their business, like 99% of all other businesses?!
 

I guess if there’s enough suckers to keep feeding them money, and paying ALL the costs for their businesses…..even though they’re billionaires who can afford it way more than everybody else…..they will happily take it, and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Honestly, it makes me sick, and makes me come very close to just say I’m done with it, and never watch the NFL again. As it  is, I’ve cut way back on how many games I watch every week, when I used to watch about 3x as many per week.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

This part is sort of mind boggling, and also maddening. So the owners want to make tens of millions in profit every year, and have their team increase by many millions in value every year, and not have to pay one dime for capital costs, such as a new stadium every 30-40 years!? They want to “get their money back”, and never have to have any cost for their business, like 99% of all other businesses?!
 

I guess if there’s enough suckers to keep feeding them money, and paying ALL the costs for their businesses…..even though they’re billionaires who can afford it way more than everybody else…..they will happily take it, and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Honestly, it makes me sick, and makes me come very close to just say I’m done with it, and never watch the NFL again. As it  is, I’ve cut way back on how many games I watch every week, when I used to watch about 3x as many per week.

I'm just calling it like I see it

 

It's billionaires who want more money at the end of the day...

 

But if you're playing hardball... And this is what it takes to keep the bills in Buffalo

 

I would rather do that than not have them

[Mr Info]

Having been to the experience, I will make a couple of comments per feedback & perspective.

-The new stadium will be so much better than the current stadium. Imo, there is no comparison as far as the club seats. Have not had the opportunity to evaluate stadium seating yet.

-There are plenty of STHs outside of the Buffalo area so they are selling to a wider swath than the local area. I have had season tix for 30+ years and live about 400 miles away.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

 

 

 

These clubs seats are not meant for a person with an average salary that would need a 20-year loan (and certainly not an 11-year old as mentioned above). They are catered to companies and clientele that have 5-figure spending money (not savings) on hand.

 

The high-end club PSLs will almost assuredly lose value. Could you imagine the average person taking out a 20-year loan and now the year is 2036, he still owes $10K+ and meanwhile similar PSLs to his are now selling on the market for $8K? It would be akin to being underwater on a mortgage.

Yes I’m fully aware these clubs are not meant for most fans. They are meant for businesses. I’ve been saying that for years now. It’s why u says everyone in the new stadium will be stepping down a peg or 2 as far as seating in the new stadium. Because even club seats in the current stadium are reasonable to a career individual. Of course if you’re working at McDonald’s you likely can’t afford them. But if your someone who has a career emolloyment then you likely can if you wanted to. But in the new stadium the career professional isn’t likely to be able to afford those seats. But you better believe the law firm or the dr that employs him will have those seats. 
 

im not arguing what should be happening, in a perfect world we wouldn’t even have PSLs. I’m arguing what is. In fact. Happening. 
 

im just saying if a 20-30 year option was there, some of those people that would have no shot at them, might actually do it. Other stadiums have 30 year options. Pretty sure Dallas and NYC. There’s really no reason why it should be possible here. 

44 minutes ago, Einstein said:

PSL's are an absolute SCAM. In every city, but especially Buffalo.

At least if you are in LA or Dallas or NYC, you can theoretically justify spreading the expense among other events. Concerts, college games, monster truck rally's, whatever. 

In Buffalo, it's just the Bills. There is no apple-to-apple comparison to other cities that have PSL's.  You are paying an extra $5k, $10k, $15k, $20k, for absolutely NOTHING more than you were receiving with tbe price of a single ticket before. In fact, they're REMOVING features. For example, club seats come with parking in the current stadium. In the new stadium your $20K PSL gets you permission to PAY for parking.

AND it makes wayyyyy more sense in a situation like the Rams or Chargers or Patriots or Jets or Giants or Carolina where the owner(s) footed the entire bill. But here, in Western New York, the FANS footed more than half the bill AND then have to pay for PSL's. It's insane. Absolutely insane. 

 

I currently have club seats and I’m almost positive I don’t get free parking included. 

[QCity]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

im just saying if a 20-30 year option was there, some of those people that would have no shot at them, might actually do it.

 

I mean I thought I did a pretty good job of explaining why they don't have that option. No?

[Jrb1979]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yes I’m fully aware these clubs are not meant for most fans. They are meant for businesses. I’ve been saying that for years now. It’s why u says everyone in the new stadium will be stepping down a peg or 2 as far as seating in the new stadium. Because even club seats in the current stadium are reasonable to a career individual. Of course if you’re working at McDonald’s you likely can’t afford them. But if your someone who has a career emolloyment then you likely can if you wanted to. But in the new stadium the career professional isn’t likely to be able to afford those seats. But you better believe the law firm or the dr that employs him will have those seats. 
 

im not arguing what should be happening, in a perfect world we wouldn’t even have PSLs. I’m arguing what is. In fact. Happening. 
 

im just saying if a 20-30 year option was there, some of those people that would have no shot at them, might actually do it. Other stadiums have 30 year options. Pretty sure Dallas and NYC. There’s really no reason why it should be possible here. 

IMO the reason they are doing it this way is this their way of pricing out the riff raff that go to games. By charging what they are charging, the table slamming, condiment guys and drunks will no longer be at the games. It's there way of making Bills games more corporate and less college 

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

IMO the reason they are doing it this way is this their way of pricing out the riff raff that go to games. By charging what they are charging, the table slamming, condiment guys and drunks will no longer be at the games. It's there way of making Bills games more corporate and less college 

Been saying this for years. The nfl. The bills. The town of OP. The county. The state. We make a fool of ourselves on national tv every single Sunday 

9 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

I mean I thought I did a pretty good job of explaining why they don't have that option. No?

You explained that they don’t. You didn’t explain why it’s not an Option. All you did was state they are not meant for every day people. I’m simply stating that if they wanted to they could make it so that everyday people could afford them. Which would help their profitability in the long run if they did 

[Einstein]

 

14 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

I currently have club seats and I’m almost positive I don’t get free parking included. 

 

The indoor club seats did. Guess they changed it.

[Einstein]

40 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

Having been to the experience, I will make a couple of comments per feedback & perspective.

-The new stadium will be so much better than the current stadium. Imo, there is no comparison as far as the club seats. Have not had the opportunity to evaluate stadium seating yet.

-There are plenty of STHs outside of the Buffalo area so they are selling to a wider swath than the local area. I have had season tix for 30+ years and live about 400 miles away.

 

Can you give some more information on the features that will make the new stadium better?

 

I know there will be views of the field from the indoor club, which is nice.

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Can you give some more information on the features that will make the new stadium better?

 

I know there will be views of the field from the indoor club, which is nice.

Following this. I’m sure it’ll be better also. But I’d like to hear about what is going to be better. For one, I’m almost positive there will be no outdoor concourses. Which should help 

20 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

The indoor club seats did. Guess they changed it.

Maybe the indoor clubs still do. Idk. But mine in the outdoor clubs do not. I could buy it extra.  But not included 

[BillsPride12]

37 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

IMO the reason they are doing it this way is this their way of pricing out the riff raff that go to games. By charging what they are charging, the table slamming, condiment guys and drunks will no longer be at the games. It's there way of making Bills games more corporate and less college 

I mean sure this will come with it but their main objective in all of this is to make more $$$$$$$$$$$.  The Rich always need to get richer.  It's never enough for those greedy MFer's!  

[QCity]

33 minutes ago, mrags said:

You explained that they don’t. You didn’t explain why it’s not an Option. All you did was state they are not meant for every day people. I’m simply stating that if they wanted to they could make it so that everyday people could afford them. Which would help their profitability in the long run if they did 

 

The PSLs are going to depreciate. If, in 10 years, Josh retires and the team goes back to the Doug Marrone / EJ Manuel 6-11 days they will sink like an absolute brick. You can't have half your STHs underwater and possibly defaulting on their loans. They want their money now.

 

I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you have to take out a 20-year loan to afford club tickets, you can't afford club tickets.