Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Einstein]

29 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

Interesting that in the same article that you cite is this:

“If the Jets had won a couple of Super Bowls in recent years like the Giants, their fans would have figured to fare similarly well. Some Giants fans can collect up to twice as much as they originally paid for PSLs.”

 

There are plenty of articles demonstrating that PSLs are not good investments. But looks like a good investment for Giants fans.

So all we need is for the Bills to win 2 Super Bowls? Sign me up for that.

 

Joking aside, that article is from 2017. Of course a PSL will rise in value directly after that.

Giants PSL’s are now down significantly as well. You can pick up a PSL for as low as $400 right now.

 

 

[Mr Info]

This is something that surprised me. The Bills had the seventh highest average resale ticket price. Bills average resale tix were more expensive than the Giants, Packers, and Steelers.
https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-ticket-prices-every-team/

[Buffalo Super Fan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

This doesn’t compute.

 

Building a brand new 8,000 square foot house in Buffalo, doesn’t mean that this new house has equal market value to the same large home in California. Or Chicago. Or NYC. etc.

 

Bringing the Bills ticket pricing up to national averages only makes sense if they’re also building the stadium in one of those larger cities that demand such exorbitant ticket prices.

 

But they’re not.

 

They’re charging big city prices, without the big city. The big city prices make sense in those cities because *everything* is more expensive there.

 

It would be akin to being told the apartments in Lackawanna are now $7.5k per month, because the landlord says the previous rent was undervalued compared to Manhattan and LA. 

Exactly you can’t give Manhattan and LA prices if your Buffalo salary isn’t Manhattan and LA salary. I have no problem paying for PSL’s Manhattan and LA prices if I getting there salaries. Again if Terry Pegula hypothetically followed through on Austin, Texas to move the Bills there. Terry Pegula isn’t getting Manhattan and LA prices in Austin, Texas regardless of the technology companies they have. Each market isn’t Manhattan and LA. Also Buffalo Bills fans that are forced out because of PSL’s prices. You might discover that watching the Buffalo Bills on television like when you were a kid isn’t so bad. It was wonderful when I gave up my Bills season tickets liberating because the Bills thought JP Losman was a better quarterback option than Drew Bledsoe and I didn’t think so. It was one of many smart things I did.
 

Also you can still see live football locally either at UB Bulls or the many Western New York high schools where football is played where the real meat and potatoes of football is. Not the fantasy land of the NFL. If you love sports like I do it doesn’t really matter you love the game the competition. But if you are into the life of the party atmosphere with tailgating and party yeah you are going to miss the Buffalo Bills games more. I never went to football because of a tailgate. I loved the competition of sports. So I wired differently than some football fans. I enjoy watching arena/indoor football in all different kind of leagues in America. Like the NAL Omaha Beef on a all Orange indoor turf field. Buffalo Super Fan would you be happy if the Buffalo Wings NAL on an Orange turf replacing the Buffalo Bills? To be honest I love sports and would follow whatever Buffalo had as a team. I want the Buffalo Bills to stay but if they choose that Buffalo isn’t for them good luck bring on the new Buffalo football team whatever it is. I am a Buffalo Bisons fan and they wear all kinds of crazy uniforms like Disco night who cares it’s baseball.
 

I love the game that is what I am saying so owners threats and PSL high prices wouldn’t work on me. I don’t even show up to the Bills experience because I think one would have to be off there rocker to pay for the right to buy a season ticket that is insane. I am different type of Buffalo fan television is wonderful today compared to when I was growing up I watched games on my family’s 12 inch black and white portable television my parents gave me as a 7 year old boy. So I could watch sports in my bedroom while the rest of the family watched television shows on our big color television set. When I was 13 years old for my birthday mom and dad surprised me with a portable 12 inch color television. I had that color television set all through college until I was done with college and got one of those big screen televisions wonderful memories. That 13th birthday was a incredible memory to be able to see games in color television of my own was just a wonderful experience going from black and white to color television back then that was big stuff in a 13 year old sports fan living in Buffalo at that time in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited March 21 by Buffalo Super Fan

[BillyBilliams]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

This was from their survey, which seems to be where your current seat is.  

 

Location: Lower level between 40- and 20-yard lines

Coverage: None

Heating: None

Annual price per seat: $1,900

One-time PSL: $4,850

 

 

Thanks!  I remember doing the survey, but I didn’t remember the prices, and I don’t have the email anymore.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Mr Info said:

This is something that surprised me. The Bills had the seventh highest average resale ticket price. Bills average resale tix were more expensive than the Giants, Packers, and Steelers.
https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-ticket-prices-every-team/

And we can bet that the Bills and Legends are acutely aware of this statistic as well as the fact that those are three high demand pro football markets, too. It will be very telling when we see how the demand for the clubs and other premium seating shakes out. 

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I assume the PSL you quoted is per seat? 

 

Yes, any PSL is per seat.  

 

 

2 hours ago, BillyBilliams said:

Thanks!  I remember doing the survey, but I didn’t remember the prices, and I don’t have the email anymore.

 

No doubt.  I downloaded the survey just in case.  

 

 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

$40k in an account earning 8~ish% interest over those same 10 years is close to $100k.

 

The smart play here is to let others pay the absurd retail price, and then purchase it from them in a few years for pennies on the dollar.

 

The Jets sold PSL’s for as high as $25,000. Those same PSL’s are selling for $4,500 now.

 

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/meadowlands-matters/2017/02/24/jets-psls-have-proved-bad-investments/98361042/

 

I thought that if you give up your seats, the team retains the rights to the seats and can charge another PSL to new STHs, no?  

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

This doesn’t compute.

 

Building a brand new 8,000 square foot house in Buffalo, doesn’t mean that this new house has equal market value to the same large home in California. Or Chicago. Or NYC. etc.

 

Bringing the Bills ticket pricing up to national averages only makes sense if they’re also building the stadium in one of those larger cities that demand such exorbitant ticket prices.

 

But they’re not.

 

They’re charging big city prices, without the big city. The big city prices make sense in those cities because *everything* is more expensive there.

 

It would be akin to being told the apartments in Lackawanna are now $7.5k per month, because the landlord says the previous rent was undervalued compared to Manhattan and LA. 

While all real estate markets are local, and all locales have real estate , not every city has the NFL. Only 30 cities have an NFL team - or two - that call it home. So the NFL doesn’t consider it’s product to be like real estate, and it isn’t. It’s the pinnacle of big time sports , and that brings with it a certain price tag. While there will be regional variations due to team popularity, performance etc, attending a game commands a certain market price. The average resale price of Bills tickets has been brought up in this thread, and it shows that the product has been undervalued locally. Much of this is due to the antiquated stadium. That’s changing and so is the pricing structure. The ticket game has changed greatly over the years , and brokers control much of it. They will almost certainly end up with many of these PSL’s. The Bills ticket market is going to be brought up to date with the rest of the NFL. It won’t be the same for fans, but that was inevitable. This shift has already happened with all professional sports as well as other entertainment such as concerts. 

[Einstein]

19 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I thought that if you give up your seats, the team retains the rights to the seats and can charge another PSL to new STHs, no?  

 

No you are typically allowed to sell you re-sell your PSL. Oftentimes for significantly less than you purchased it for.

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Exactly you can’t give Manhattan and LA prices if your Buffalo salary isn’t Manhattan and LA salary. I have no problem paying for PSL’s Manhattan and LA prices if I getting there salaries. Again if Terry Pegula hypothetically followed through on Austin, Texas to move the Bills there. Terry Pegula isn’t getting Manhattan and LA prices in Austin, Texas regardless of the technology companies they have. Each market isn’t Manhattan and LA.

 

It’s a fact that many fans miss when they make the argument of “We are just catching up to the average ticket sale price”.

 

Not really. 

We are only 15.9% less than the average NFL tickets. And I believe I read ticket prices are increasing another 10% this year, so that discrepancy is likely going to get smaller.

 

We are not just catching up to the rest of the league - we are almost there. And the new stadium ticket pricing will not just catch us up, it will put us into the top 5/10 for ticket pricing is my hypothesis.

 

 

 

[mrags]

41 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s a fact that many fans miss when they make the argument of “We are just catching up to the average ticket sale price”.

 

Not really. 

We are only 15.9% less than the average NFL tickets. And I believe I read ticket prices are increasing another 10% this year, so that discrepancy is likely going to get smaller.

 

We are not just catching up to the rest of the league - we are almost there. And the new stadium ticket pricing will not just catch us up, it will put us into the top 5/10 for ticket pricing is my hypothesis.

 

 

 

I saw you post before that we are not so far behind the rest of the league. As you stated that we are actually quite high on the list. I’m just curious where you got this information from. Is it based on organization ticket prices? Is it based on secondary market prices? 
 

regardless, the NFL and the Bills don’t care. They could play in empty stadiums and still make money. So anything they get is just the cherry on top of the pie at this point. They are likely tripling down with PSL, increased ticket prices, on top of “catching up to the rest of the league”. 
 

 

 

 

on another note, I spoke with my new ticket rep the other day. He told me I would probably be a few months away from getting my stadium experience. He answered a few questions for me regarding the process but nothing that would be considered new info here. Just an fyi @SoCal Deek I did get a feeling of timeshare presentation in the phone conversation. Of course he didn’t provide any info on ticket prices. At one point he started asking me questions and actually asked if I was interested in buying MORE than my current 2 club seats. I found that odd especially since it was previously stated they are having 70% success rate. 

[Einstein]

41 minutes ago, mrags said:

I saw you post before that we are not so far behind the rest of the league. As you stated that we are actually quite high on the list. I’m just curious where you got this information from. Is it based on organization ticket prices? Is it based on secondary market prices? 
 

regardless, the NFL and the Bills don’t care. They could play in empty stadiums and still make money. So anything they get is just the cherry on top of the pie at this point. They are likely tripling down with PSL, increased ticket prices, on top of “catching up to the rest of the league”. 
 

 

 

 

on another note, I spoke with my new ticket rep the other day. He told me I would probably be a few months away from getting my stadium experience. He answered a few questions for me regarding the process but nothing that would be considered new info here. Just an fyi @SoCal Deek I did get a feeling of timeshare presentation in the phone conversation. Of course he didn’t provide any info on ticket prices. At one point he started asking me questions and actually asked if I was interested in buying MORE than my current 2 club seats. I found that odd especially since it was previously stated they are having 70% success rate. 

 

It was average ticket prices - each team vs the league average.

 

Ps: 

 

 

[billsfan89]

PSL’s are a scam and given the anti trust exemption that many leagues get they shouldn’t exist.

[mrags]

52 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It was average ticket prices - each team vs the league average.

 

Ps: 

 

 

That still doesn’t tell me of its posted ticket prices by the teams or secondary prices. 
 

And I think that the general assumptions by fans and STHs of how the sales will be done for the new stadium are just that. Assumptions. If @SoCal Deek is correct in that it feels like a timeshare experience, then the reps could very well be pressuring people right out of the gate to get them locked in asap and get some confirmations with payments. 
 

I generally think people’s assumptions are incorrect on the ticket options overall. I’m of the impression from my conversations with 3 different reps now. That suite and club members will have their options first in similar sections (other suites or clubs). If they however chose to downgrade and not chose club seats in the new stadium they will then be batched in with the remaining STHs based on seniority for the general admission for the stadium. I DO NOT believe they are batching in everyone by seniority specifically by section and making you chose something in a similar section. I believe after the clubs and suite members are done with their experiences, everyone else will be done by seniority for the remaining ticket holders. Giving everyone by seniority to chose which ever tickets they like at that point. But time will tell. We’re only a week into this process and there is still much to be revealed. 

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve seen a couple of people reference my comments about timeshare presentations. Please note that I didn’t say those presentations were either good or bad. What I’ve said is that the Bills appear to using the STRATEGIES and TACTICS of timeshare presentations to sell seats in the new stadium. It obviously works for timeshares, or there wouldn’t be any. 

 

PS: I’ve been ‘invested’ in a timeshare for over a decade. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

And some people cried over $7 to stream a game from the comfort of their own home last year.

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, mrags said:

That still doesn’t tell me of its posted ticket prices by the teams or secondary prices. 

 

Sorry, I thought that was obvious. Its original retail prices (by the team). I wouldn’t post resale prices because that wouldn’t make sense in this context.

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Sorry, I thought that was obvious. Its original retail prices (by the team). I wouldn’t post resale prices because that wouldn’t make sense in this context.

Well. I didn’t think it was obvious. I have doubts about those numbers honestly. If you were talking resale I would believe it. Where did you say you got that info from again? 

[BillsPride12]

Not sure how accurate this is but I have now seen at least a couple people on Twitter today post that 100 level 50 yard line seats will have a PSL of $15,000.  Once again I'm not saying this as a concrete statement but just reporting back on what I am seeing today.

[Gregg]

Now that the reality of PSL pricing is hitting Bills fans everyone can understand why so many Jets and Giants fans dropped their seasons and just purchase tickets on a game-by-game basis.