Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Buffalo Super Fan]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Yeah I DO get exactly everything you are saying and I think you’re batchit crazy. First of all, they don’t sell out 100% to capacity. They don’t currently do that now. Last I checked they had about 58k season ticket holders. They have to leave some available per the league I think. So 62k isn’t even accurate. There’s at least a 7k person waiting list as we speak. Then add in the fact that the new stadium will be 10k seats less than the current one. There’s going to be a 17k waiting list before the thing even opens. Even if 17k people now out from season tix because they don’t want to or can’t afford the PSL and ticket fees, there will be a large pool to take from for years. 
 

now, if you want to argue that eventually the PSLs will go away in some areas when the team has trouble selling games out, I’ll listen to the argument as soon as Allen is no longer a Bill and we are at the bottom of the standings for years again. Until then, it’s not going to happen. And honestly, if they suck that bad, who really cares happens to them and their PSL issues. 
 

you keep bringing up the Sabres. Hockey is like the 5th most popular sport in America. Behind Football? baseball, NASCAR, Golf. Hell, WWE has better ratings. Nobody gives a crap about hockey. I don’t care how popular it is in the city of Buffalo, it doesn’t draw people coming to the arena (other than leafs fans) from out of town ever. Bringing it up just shows how out of touch you are with it. 
 

again, they are having 100% PSLs throughout the entire stadium (minus maybe the party deck with standing room because we don’t know yet). They’ve announced it. It’s not changing. Just stop. 

No you need to stop it and wake up and smell the coffee. Just because you want something to happen as a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. I don’t think you are that old by the tone of your post. You need to live more life and study our Western New York region past and what this area has lost business wise start with Steve Cichon great blogs so you can get an idea what this area and region has lost over the past 30 to 40 years it’s sad. I lived it and saw it every year little by little our area was becoming poorer and poorer economically. I get it your same naive response just stop it it’s not NFL we can agree to disagree I think you need to read up on Western New York economics over the past 40 years would be my suggestion. And again as a Bills fan I hope you are right but I am not counting on it because my head says it’s going to be a heavy lift for Western New York regardless of there love of the Buffalo Bills in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

[QCity]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Just because you want something to happen as a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

 

 

You really need to take a step back and listen to your own advice here.

 

You are essentially for the boycott of PSLs in the cheap seats, which will eventually embarrass the owners with empty seats in the stadium, which will cause them to drop PSLs. That's what you wrote 3 posts ago. You actually see this as a possibility?

 

Just because you want something to happen as a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

No you need to stop it and wake up and smell the coffee. Just because you want something to happen as a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. I don’t think you are that old by the tone of your post. You need to live more life and study our Western New York region past and what this area has lost business wise start with Steve Cichon great blogs so you can get an idea what this area and region has lost over the past 30 to 40 years it’s sad. I lived it and saw it every year little by little our area was becoming poorer and poorer economically. I get it your same naive response just stop it it’s not NFL we can agree to disagree I think you need to read up on Western New York economics over the past 40 years would be my suggestion. And again as a Bills fan I hope you are right but I am not counting on it because my head says it’s going to be a heavy lift for Western New York regardless of there love of the Buffalo Bills in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Yeah I get it. You are special. You’ve been around long enough to see the region dwindle to nothing. Well, I am old enough to watch some of it myself. I’m not Buffalo Braves old but I’m old enough to know this town isn’t what it used to be. Regardless, that all means absolutely nothing. The town is in bed with the Bills/NFL now. They won’t be removing any PSLs at all in the near future. Bet on it. It has nothing to do with how much the fans or this town love the team. It has everything to do with the practices of the NFL and the likes of owners like Jerry Jones. I don’t think at all that it will be good for Buffalo fans. The PSLs will be bought out by brokers and they will rape and pillage their way through the Buffalo fans every game on the secondary market. You believe what you want, time will tell you that I’m right. like I said, as long as we’re not in the basement on the NFL for an extended period of time, and I don’t ever see that whole Allen is on this team. They will not be removing any PSLs. 
 

are you even a season ticket holder? Did you get the survey about the ticket prices and PSL fees? Do you even have any idea how much they are? I do. Honestly, the end zone seats aren’t that bad. But if you haven’t seen the survey you wouldn’t know. You’re only speculating and expressing your disgust in the whole process. Which honesty is falling on deaf ears. 

1 minute ago, QCity said:

 

You really need to take a step back and listen to your own advice here.

 

You are essentially for the boycott of PSLs in the cheap seats, which will eventually embarrass the owners with empty seats in the stadium, which will cause them to drop PSLs. That's what you wrote 3 posts ago. You actually see this as a possibility?

 

Just because you want something to happen as a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

Yeah he doesn’t get it. He’s just angry that prices are going up and he could be prices out. If he is even a STH 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Fewer sections with heated seats

But the heated seat technology is already part of the budgeted stadium design costs. Are you saying the Bills might try to have the project come in under the $1.4b budget by altering the already accepted design for heated seats or other already budgeted amenity infrastructure? If so, is it a given that the team would realize that savings or would it go to the state or county? You raise a very interesting point and I’d be interested in looking deeper into it. 

 

Are you going to have the opportunity to go to the experience in Williamsville? If so, please ask these questions because they’re worth asking. 
 

 

Edited March 11 by K-9

[eball]

16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

But I have a feeling they downgraded much of the stadium due to ballooning costs.

 

Is this “feeling” based in any way on hard facts?

 

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

But the heated seat technology is already part of the budgeted stadium design costs. Are you saying the Bills might try to have the project come in under the $1.4b budget by altering the already accepted design for heated seats or other already budgeted amenity infrastructure? If so, is it a given that the team would realize that savings or would it go to the state or county? You raise a very interesting point and I’d be interested in looking deeper into it. 

 

Are you going to have the opportunity to go to the experience in Williamsville? If so, please ask these questions because they’re worth asking. 
 

 

It’s an interesting question. In most cases this would be called a Design/Build contract in which the Owners (Pegula and the State) would stipulate design criteria to the architect/construction team. Their ‘bid’, sometimes called a guaranteed maximum price or GMP would have to include all of those stipulated criteria…like a certain number of heated seats…be part of the minimum that’s provided within that GMP. This is obviously not a typical construction project but it must have some similar checks and balances. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Chicago is building a domed stadium. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Chicago is building a domed stadium. 

 

 

I find the wording to be hilarious! “Include a dome”? Will the included dome be over the field or just somewhere in the greater Chicago area? 😉

[BillsPride12]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Chicago is building a domed stadium. 

 

 

That's kinda sad.  Soldier Field was a historical stadium.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

That's kinda sad.  Soldier Field was a historical stadium.  

We’ll get over it.

 

I want to see if KC changes plans to renovate after fans lost body parts at a football game.

[mrags]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s an interesting question. In most cases this would be called a Design/Build contract in which the Owners (Pegula and the State) would stipulate design criteria to the architect/construction team. Their ‘bid’, sometimes called a guaranteed maximum price or GMP would have to include all of those stipulated criteria…like a certain number of heated seats…be part of the minimum that’s provided within that GMP. This is obviously not a typical construction project but it must have some similar checks and balances. 

You’re a better person to ask than most. But wouldn’t the deal/contract between the state/Bills/NFL/County all have to be finalized and confirmed in regards to what is being built. Especially since the public is paying so much out of pocket for it? Like it would be tough to come out during the creation process and say “XXXX seats will be covered and heated” but not deliver. Claiming construction costs were the reason and in a way to save money it is now idk, 1/2 what was originally said. Wouldn’t the town/county/state have a field day with that? Especially since Pegula is in the hook for the overruns. We’re not talking about a few less kiosks inside, or saving on tile work here. We’re talking about specifics of the stadium that were announced. 
 

idk, just seems like the seating and coverages, along with heating elements aren’t something that could be changed legally in the building of the stadium. 
 

again, you’d know better than most. 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, K-9 said:

But the heated seat technology is already part of the budgeted stadium design costs. Are you saying the Bills might try to have the project come in under the $1.4b budget by altering the already accepted design for heated seats or other already budgeted amenity infrastructure? If so, is it a given that the team would realize that savings or would it go to the state or county? You raise a very interesting point and I’d be interested in looking deeper into it. 

 

Are you going to have the opportunity to go to the experience in Williamsville? If so, please ask these questions because they’re worth asking. 
 

 

 

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

Is this “feeling” based in any way on hard facts?

 

 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s an interesting question. In most cases this would be called a Design/Build contract in which the Owners (Pegula and the State) would stipulate design criteria to the architect/construction team. Their ‘bid’, sometimes called a guaranteed maximum price or GMP would have to include all of those stipulated criteria…like a certain number of heated seats…be part of the minimum that’s provided within that GMP. This is obviously not a typical construction project but it must have some similar checks and balances. 

 

No hard facts @eball. Just a sneaking suspicion based on my initial conversation with my Legends rep. When I said ideally I wanted coverage and heat, she said something to the effect of "well some club owners might not renew so there could be some of those left."  Uh no. I'm not buying clubs. And I recall the survey describing non-club heated and covered seats at a certain price point that I was definitely interested in.

 

My memory isn't the best but I could swear when they started talking about this stadium it was supposed to be 85% covered. Now it's 60-something%, right? And @SoCal Deek if prices are ballooning (and overruns are 100% on Terry) they can easily take out things like heat in certain sections. It wouldn't require a redesign. Just don't wire and install them.  Maybe the thought is they'll do it later.

[SoCal Deek]

50 minutes ago, mrags said:

You’re a better person to ask than most. But wouldn’t the deal/contract between the state/Bills/NFL/County all have to be finalized and confirmed in regards to what is being built. Especially since the public is paying so much out of pocket for it? Like it would be tough to come out during the creation process and say “XXXX seats will be covered and heated” but not deliver. Claiming construction costs were the reason and in a way to save money it is now idk, 1/2 what was originally said. Wouldn’t the town/county/state have a field day with that? Especially since Pegula is in the hook for the overruns. We’re not talking about a few less kiosks inside, or saving on tile work here. We’re talking about specifics of the stadium that were announced. 
 

idk, just seems like the seating and coverages, along with heating elements aren’t something that could be changed legally in the building of the stadium. 
 

again, you’d know better than most. 

It’s complicated and every Contract is worded differently but in general the basic design criteria (things that matter to the Owners) are stipulated in the basic performance documents. For example, the total number of seats or even those that are heated, but things like the size of particular beams are left up to the Design/Build team to work out. In most instances cost overruns do NOT come from the Contractor. They’re generally caused by the Owner asking for additional amenities that they failed to stipulate in the original scoping documents. And most construction contracts protect the Owner from increases due to inflation and weather…unless it can be proven that either are beyond the norm thru no fault of the contractor.

 

I hope that helps. 

[QCity]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

My memory isn't the best but I could swear when they started talking about this stadium it was supposed to be 85% covered. Now it's 60-something%, right? 

Quote

 

Q: How much of the stadium is covered by the canopy?

Raccuia: "Right now the renderings with the canopy covers 65% of all seats. Which is right in line with what we've been saying from day one, and we're really excited about that."

 

 

[Just Jack]

20 hours ago, K-9 said:

But the heated seat technology is already part of the budgeted stadium design costs. Are you saying the Bills might try to have the project come in under the $1.4b budget by altering the already accepted design for heated seats or other already budgeted amenity infrastructure? If so, is it a given that the team would realize that savings or would it go to the state or county? You raise a very interesting point and I’d be interested in looking deeper into it. 

 

Are you going to have the opportunity to go to the experience in Williamsville? If so, please ask these questions because they’re worth asking. 
 

 

 

I wonder what technology they will go with, the current heat lamp style or try the heated individual seats again.  

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

I wonder what technology they will go with, the current heat lamp style or try the heated individual seats again.  

I’m sure someone else does it now. But a few years ago I spoke with Bills reps about the old “heated seats” and they said they had to scrap them because the company that made them went out of business and they couldn’t keep up with issues and fixing them. 
 

like I said, I’m sure technology has changed and there’s other ways now. But we’ll see. You’ve been there long enough to witness both have you not? What’s your opinion on which is better. The actual heated seat, or the overhead fry stations that we have now? 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

On 3/10/2024 at 8:36 PM, Buffalo Super Fan said:

No you need to stop it and wake up and smell the coffee. Just because you want something to happen as a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. I don’t think you are that old by the tone of your post. You need to live more life and study our Western New York region past and what this area has lost business wise start with Steve Cichon great blogs so you can get an idea what this area and region has lost over the past 30 to 40 years it’s sad. I lived it and saw it every year little by little our area was becoming poorer and poorer economically. I get it your same naive response just stop it it’s not NFL we can agree to disagree I think you need to read up on Western New York economics over the past 40 years would be my suggestion. And again as a Bills fan I hope you are right but I am not counting on it because my head says it’s going to be a heavy lift for Western New York regardless of there love of the Buffalo Bills in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Huh? 

[Buffalo716]

On 3/10/2024 at 11:52 PM, mrags said:

Yeah I get it. You are special. You’ve been around long enough to see the region dwindle to nothing. Well, I am old enough to watch some of it myself. I’m not Buffalo Braves old but I’m old enough to know this town isn’t what it used to be. Regardless, that all means absolutely nothing. The town is in bed with the Bills/NFL now. They won’t be removing any PSLs at all in the near future. Bet on it. It has nothing to do with how much the fans or this town love the team. It has everything to do with the practices of the NFL and the likes of owners like Jerry Jones. I don’t think at all that it will be good for Buffalo fans. The PSLs will be bought out by brokers and they will rape and pillage their way through the Buffalo fans every game on the secondary market. You believe what you want, time will tell you that I’m right. like I said, as long as we’re not in the basement on the NFL for an extended period of time, and I don’t ever see that whole Allen is on this team. They will not be removing any PSLs. 
 

are you even a season ticket holder? Did you get the survey about the ticket prices and PSL fees? Do you even have any idea how much they are? I do. Honestly, the end zone seats aren’t that bad. But if you haven’t seen the survey you wouldn’t know. You’re only speculating and expressing your disgust in the whole process. Which honesty is falling on deaf ears. 

Yeah he doesn’t get it. He’s just angry that prices are going up and he could be prices out. If he is even a STH 

 Buffalo superfan is a unique gentleman

 

Look at his ranting in my UB football thread... He still won't let the Buffalo braves go

[Just Jack]

20 minutes ago, mrags said:

like I said, I’m sure technology has changed and there’s other ways now. But we’ll see. You’ve been there long enough to witness both have you not? What’s your opinion on which is better. The actual heated seat, or the overhead fry stations that we have now? 

 

The overhead fry station is better.  The seats, when they worked, had a built-in contact/switch, so they were off until you lowered your seat to sit in it.  So, you'd be sitting on cold plastic until it warmed up.  If you kept standing during a game (stand/sit/stand/sit/etc.) your seat kept "turning off" every time you stood. 

 

Plus, I've had people say to me how cool the stadium looks at the night games on TV with the red glow from the club seats.  

[mrags]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 Buffalo superfan is a unique gentleman

 

Look at his ranting in my UB football thread... He still won't let the Buffalo braves go

Yeah he just seems like he’s upset that the Bills and the NFL, with the help of the county, State are proving out real Bills fans. I tried to tell people this from the start. When we all started arguing about building the stadium downtown for where it is. From a dome to open air. I tried to tell people in the beginning it won’t matter because the average fan won’t be attending the games anyway. Just comical to me that everyone was annoyed that I was complaining for months and now all the sudden everyone is jumping on the bandwagon that I tried to drive for so long. Welcome to the suck is all I have to say. 

9 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

The overhead fry station is better.  The seats, when they worked, had a built-in contact/switch, so they were off until you lowered your seat to sit in it.  So, you'd be sitting on cold plastic until it warmed up.  If you kept standing during a game (stand/sit/stand/sit/etc.) your seat kept "turning off" every time you stood. 

 

Plus, I've had people say to me how cool the stadium looks at the night games on TV with the red glow from the club seats.  

I think even if the seats stayed on the fry stations would be better. Seems like it heats everything around the area vs just your butt and back. Maybe there could be a mix of both in the new stadium but I just think the covered sections will have heat and nothing else will. Pretty obvious really. But the new stadium will have some. 100s, 200s, 300s and even some 400s that will be covered. 3-4 levels/tiers of covered and heated seats.