Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, Fallser said:

That stadium is $2.1B Tennesseean dollars, in NY state, you’d have to add a billion for that monstrosity. 

Fuzzy math?   Just wild speculation on your part?  A billion more?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

54 minutes ago, wppete said:

Who cares how much they pay? Just build it and we will come. Lets them figure out how it’s payed for. The state dishes out a lot more money to nonesense then a stadium and the Pegulas will be on the hook for a lot of it. I’m sure the Pegula can afford it. 

Exactly why it should’ve been a dome. We’re going no matter what. Players wanted a dome.

[LabattBlue]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

To be fair the Jets had to adjust their prices as well when MetLife was being built. I have seats in the endzone (row 3) and initially they were charging $10,000 per seat PSL fee. Sales were so disappointing at that price in those sections that the PSL fee eventually got reduced to $5,000 per seat. The Bills will have to adjust their prices to what the demand is. They want to sell those seats so they will have to work with what the market can afford. PSL's were/are a disaster in a big market like the NYC area. It will be no different in Buffalo. 

I was being sarcastic…with the announcement of project costs already skyrocketing, the PSL price “adjustment” may be going up, not down. 

[Heitz]

TBD sure can find a way to complain about things they don't have the full picture on...  

[IronyAbounds]

All this really begs the question: why does an owner worth $6.7B need public financing for any of it? It's true, if he has to drop $2B he will only be worth $4.7B. My God, how would he be able to eat or buy other necessities of life? He'd be scrounging through trash cans looking for his next meal.

 

I love the Bills, but with everything going on in sports these days (huge stadium projects for billions, conference realignment in college sports that's destroying traditions just for tv dollars, Saudis buying golf and other sports, Yankees spending millions to construct a crap team) it's getting harder and harder to give a rat's ass about the games being played.

[BigDingus]

5 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Who is doing that and why is it disrespectful if someone likes one stadium over another?

Inflation.  A done is another billion ( give or take).  You throwing out a dollar amount assuming you can do more with it, do you have data to show how they could have had a dome for the same price?   Also there is significant debate in the dome thing.  Why do you have to be right because you are on one side of that fence?

 

Inflation is one thing, but this is absurd. 

 

Wages aren't going up. Construction costs in the state are just out of control. Spending nearly $2 billion (or even more), for an outdoor stadium, no chance of ever hosting a SB, in an area that has no shot at encouraging surrounding development, and that will only be used a handful of times a year is even more inanely wasteful than these things already are.

 

Even more crazy is that there's a chance the team could STILL be pushed out of games due to weather & be forced to fly to nearby DOMED stadiums that actually planned ahead for such things. 

 

How embarassing is it if you pay $2 billion for this shiny new stadium that will get used 8 times a year, just to lose one of those games because of bad weather & have to fly to Detroit again? Even less return on investment.. for the one city that could use a roof more than anyone else.

[Matt_In_NH]

12 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

for the one city that could use (BUT DOES NOT WANT) a roof more than anyone else.

Added bold....I understand your position but its not happening, never was.  I am not convinced your reasons reasons for a roof are legit but they are the arguments you hear over and over.   .No big development or dozens of events would happen with a roof either.....its in the middle of OP.   Wages are going up....maybe not at the same rate as inflation.  

[TheFunPolice]

If there was a dome included you can be sure the cost overruns would be even bigger

[Heitz]

7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

If there was a dome included you can be sure the cost overruns would be even bigger

 

No - the current cost overruns, would have paid for the dome because they would have been efficient with that project!  In our world of new math... 🙄  🤣  

[RobbRiddick]

I knew they shouldn't have bothered with the anti d*ldo netting they built into the design

[Buffalo Super Fan]

1 hour ago, brianthomas said:

Just think, with the news of the cost overruns, in hindsight we very well could've afforded a dome, had we just simply managed the costs more efficiently elsewhere with the project? Thats what im taking away from the AP article thats got everyone fired up.

This cost excuse was likely never the reason why we didnt decide on a dome, its Pegula's belief we should be outdoors, simple as that. Everything else seems just a supporting rationalization for Pegula's wishes. Whether one believes them or not, its up for debate i guess. Football "purists" aside, in a troubled economy where the slices of pie to go around are fewer & fewer, it doesnt make financial sense to spend $2B on a building used 12 times a year. It just doesnt & no amount of attempts to rationalize this will ever succeed, because at its core its simply irrational. But hey, now that im likely priced out of going to the games, maybe i can watch the games on TV hopefully going forward, so i guess i shouldnt complain? The BILLS are staying here for years to come.

Whole thing literally makes me facepalm whenever i think of it. Guess i shouldnt haha.

I will add because this Western New York area leaders are so poor with planning and development we have to be on our knees to PSE that basically is what has happened. The only way we get off our knees in the future is planning projects without PSE involvement. The Buffalo Bills are going to do what they are going to do good or bad whatever what is done is done. As a Buffalo community we need to figure out how to get UB Bulls football there own 25,000 seats football stadium over looking the Buffalo Waterfront that the Buffalo Bills passed on. Build a horse shoe style college football stadium 25,000 seats expandable if need be in the future. With the open end overlooking our Buffalo Waterfront. Build on the Buffalo Outer Harbor where there is plenty of open and cheap land looking for development. So you aren’t looking at residents being effected at all so there will be few problems or lawsuits. The Buffalo Waterfront Stadium can be used for the Buffalo Bulls football team, summer concerts and events at the Buffalo Waterfront in the summer. Traffic won’t be a problem with 25,000 seats for the Buffalo Bills fan terrified about traffic. The cost won’t be high because of the smaller scale of a college football stadium. Push for outer harbor development without the Buffalo Bills let the Bills just be in Orchard Park since that is what they wanted. PSE leaders are dumber than a Pet Rock in my own opinion.
 

The Western New York community needs to move forward with a Buffalo Waterfront Stadium for UB Bulls without the Buffalo Bills and PSE involvement at all. Can we do that Buffalo Super Fan? Yes we can do that the world doesn’t evolve around PSE even though some think it does it doesn’t. Yes it is going to take awhile but that is what needs to be done to start having some progress in our Buffalo Waterfront area. As Buffalo fans know I want more amusement rides and board walks built down there at Canalside with more development forget about the Buffalo Bills there not interested. You can’t be a growing big city without a major university in the heart of the city being a driver it can’t be done. That is why Buffalo needs to get this Buffalo Waterfront Stadium built for UB Bulls football it makes UB more visible downtown where eventually they need most of the UB campus to be over decades of time to correct that mistake. What Buffalo Super Fan? Building UB North Campus in Amherst over Buffalo was a major mistake. I live in Amherst UB for the best opportunity for growth in Buffalo needs to be in the city. But that means it is a further drive for you and not in your best interest Buffalo Super Fan? It’s called sacrifice and doing what is best for the overall Western New York economic development. It’s not about what is best for me it is what is best for the Western New York community. Yes sharing a football stadium would have been nice but the Buffalo Bills weren’t really interested in a Buffalo Waterfront Stadium it doesn’t mean we still can’t do that on a smaller scale without the Buffalo Bills in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited August 10, 2023 by I am leaving for good

[SoCal Deek]

I come to this thread to see news on the construction and it seems to inevitably end up unraveling into complaints about “how much is a seat going to cost”. 

[JoPoy88]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I come to this thread to see news on the construction and it seems to inevitably end up unraveling into complaints about “how much is a seat going to cost”. 

And that whining will be never ending. 

[eball]

If you watched the "Built for Buffalo" production and didn't come away excited as hell by what this new stadium will be like, I don't know what to tell you.

 

It's gonna be friggin' awesome.

 

[Einstein]

On 8/9/2023 at 4:47 PM, teef said:

it's the shape of many other stadiums.  we get you think you're clever by calling it a toilet bowl, but it looks fine. 

 

I know you’ll say you don’t care what other fans think, but it’s not just me who feels this way:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I know you’ll say you don’t care what other fans think, but it’s not just me who feels this way:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, there's other idiots on the internet. Who knew.

6 hours ago, I am leaving for good said:

I will add because this Western New York area leaders are so poor with planning and development we have to be on our knees to PSE that basically is what has happened. The only way we get off our knees in the future is planning projects without PSE involvement. The Buffalo Bills are going to do what they are going to do good or bad whatever what is done is done. As a Buffalo community we need to figure out how to get UB Bulls football there own 25,000 seats football stadium over looking the Buffalo Waterfront that the Buffalo Bills passed on. Build a horse shoe style college football stadium 25,000 seats expandable if need be in the future. With the open end overlooking our Buffalo Waterfront. Build on the Buffalo Outer Harbor where there is plenty of open and cheap land looking for development. So you aren’t looking at residents being effected at all so there will be few problems or lawsuits. The Buffalo Waterfront Stadium can be used for the Buffalo Bulls football team, summer concerts and events at the Buffalo Waterfront in the summer. Traffic won’t be a problem with 25,000 seats for the Buffalo Bills fan terrified about traffic. The cost won’t be high because of the smaller scale of a college football stadium. Push for outer harbor development without the Buffalo Bills let the Bills just be in Orchard Park since that is what they wanted. PSE leaders are dumber than a Pet Rock in my own opinion.
 

The Western New York community needs to move forward with a Buffalo Waterfront Stadium for UB Bulls without the Buffalo Bills and PSE involvement at all. Can we do that Buffalo Super Fan? Yes we can do that the world doesn’t evolve around PSE even though some think it does it doesn’t. Yes it is going to take awhile but that is what needs to be done to start having some progress in our Buffalo Waterfront area. As Buffalo fans know I want more amusement rides and board walks built down there at Canalside with more development forget about the Buffalo Bills there not interested. You can’t be a growing big city without a major university in the heart of the city being a driver it can’t be done. That is why Buffalo needs to get this Buffalo Waterfront Stadium built for UB Bulls football it makes UB more visible downtown where eventually they need most of the UB campus to be over decades of time to correct that mistake. What Buffalo Super Fan? Building UB North Campus in Amherst over Buffalo was a major mistake. I live in Amherst UB for the best opportunity for growth in Buffalo needs to be in the city. But that means it is a further drive for you and not in your best interest Buffalo Super Fan? It’s called sacrifice and doing what is best for the overall Western New York economic development. It’s not about what is best for me it is what is best for the Western New York community. Yes sharing a football stadium would have been nice but the Buffalo Bills weren’t really interested in a Buffalo Waterfront Stadium it doesn’t mean we still can’t do that on a smaller scale without the Buffalo Bills in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I thought you were leaving for good

7 hours ago, IronyAbounds said:

All this really begs the question: why does an owner worth $6.7B need public financing for any of it? It's true, if he has to drop $2B he will only be worth $4.7B. My God, how would he be able to eat or buy other necessities of life? He'd be scrounging through trash cans looking for his next meal.

 

I love the Bills, but with everything going on in sports these days (huge stadium projects for billions, conference realignment in college sports that's destroying traditions just for tv dollars, Saudis buying golf and other sports, Yankees spending millions to construct a crap team) it's getting harder and harder to give a rat's ass about the games being played.

Growing up sucks. Wish we could be kids forever.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Growing up sucks. Wish we could be kids forever.

 

If only I could have told my young self to enjoy the good times when I had them... it seems like life got to be ridiculous after 9/11. I'd trade all of this internet and cell phones and cable and streaming for those days!

[LeGOATski]

8 hours ago, brianthomas said:

Just think, with the news of the cost overruns, in hindsight we very well could've afforded a dome, had we just simply managed the costs more efficiently elsewhere with the project? Thats what im taking away from the AP article thats got everyone fired up.

This cost excuse was likely never the reason why we didnt decide on a dome, its Pegula's belief we should be outdoors, simple as that. Everything else seems just a supporting rationalization for Pegula's wishes. Whether one believes them or not, its up for debate i guess. Football "purists" aside, in a troubled economy where the slices of pie to go around are fewer & fewer, it doesnt make financial sense to spend $2B on a building used 12 times a year. It just doesnt & no amount of attempts to rationalize this will ever succeed, because at its core its simply irrational. But hey, now that im likely priced out of going to the games, maybe i can watch the games on TV hopefully going forward, so i guess i shouldnt complain? The BILLS are staying here for years to come.

Whole thing literally makes me facepalm whenever i think of it. Guess i shouldnt haha.

It's easily justified once you realize that we live in a free market economy.

[LeGOATski]

8 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

If only I could have told my young self to enjoy the good times when I had them... it seems like life got to be ridiculous after 9/11. I'd trade all of this internet and cell phones and cable and streaming for those days!

It's weird that you associate the onset of the internet age with 9/11.

 

I get what you're saying about technology, though.

[mrags]

22 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

It's funny you say that.  I'm one of those types that distrusts everything until it happens, or in this case there's an actual point-of-no-return.  Here's my issue, we know that Pegula was going to move if he didn't get public funds, that's been made clear.  But he's only in for what he gets from the public, namely the combined $850M.  Very little of that has been spent, negligibly.  

 

We have a new dig housing project going on near where we live, several hundred homes, and the amount of equipment they have for the excavation and earthmoving is ten times what we've seen on the videos from the team.  I questioned in that video that I linked a few pages back, on the team's youtube channel, that there's not very much equipment there.  That has me scratching my head.  I've seen more equipment in building small strip malls or townhome tracks of 20 homes.  I would think that they'd be moving on this as fast as they can, and the digging it would seem has to be the most finalized part of the entire shebang.  So why isn't it further along is the question.  If you could see how much they've done in that housing community, it doesn't even approach being a comparison.  

 

I'm skeptical as we speak.  

 

At the current rate there's no chance on earth that they finish in three years, it'll be a miracle.  Until at least half of that money is spent with Pegula on the hook, I'm not going to be at ease.  I know this post will get slammed, and call me paranoid, but something's amiss.  Maybe it is simply that they really aren't as far along in planning as they wanted to be, but again, that's odd too as you say, like they're hiding something.  I mean what, one single excavator and one big Titan truck?  Seriously?  There's a good dozen of each in the housing community being built near me, plus earthmovers, D8 dozers and a bunch of other stuff.  But think about it, right now, with the suspect cost increase so soon after inking the deal on the stadium, and what, already almost 40% of the total expense, Pegula's already on the hook for what he's getting from the state & county.  He could cut now and save himself nearly a billion dollars.  If it escalates anymore, even more.  

 

I know this is going to get red x's and thumbs down, but just sayin'.  

 

 

I can confirm from my experience of driving by the stadium that you are in prefect on many of your arguments. Just because you see in the video there’s one excavator and one truck doesn’t make it so. They have a lot of them on site. I’ve personally driven down southwestern and witnessed a half a dozen trucks full of earth in the matter of 1 minute exiting the stadium lot for the ECC campus. 
 

they also IMO seem to be moving rather quickly. The hike in the ground is massive. Absolutely massive. Looks to be about 30ft deep and I’d say it’s about 100x200 yards.  The video clips you are seeing don’t show it but I think they are very far along. 
 

I’ve been there at least 6-8 times since they broke ground. There really is some significant progress imo. 

13 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

To be fair the Jets had to adjust their prices as well when MetLife was being built. I have seats in the endzone (row 3) and initially they were charging $10,000 per seat PSL fee. Sales were so disappointing at that price in those sections that the PSL fee eventually got reduced to $5,000 per seat. The Bills will have to adjust their prices to what the demand is. They want to sell those seats so they will have to work with what the market can afford. PSL's were/are a disaster in a big market like the NYC area. It will be no different in Buffalo. 

Just curious what happened if you already paid your 10k PSL. Did they refund you 5k at a later time?