Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You have absolutely ZERO experience in construction. Just stop! 

You don’t seem to understand basic economics.  If inflation is 7% when a project is initially conceived and a budget is created, it will certainly assume that prices will continue to increase annually at the same rate throughout the life of the project.

 

if the rate of increase turns out to be less than half that, it makes no sense at all to blame cost overruns in a lower rate of price increases 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

You don’t seem to understand basic economics.  If inflation is 7% when a project is initially conceived and a budget is created, it will certainly assume that prices will continue to increase annually at the same rate throughout the life of the project.

 

if the rate of increase turns out to be less than half that, it makes no sense at all to blame cost overruns in a lower rate of price increases 

Mr Weo….. I never said cost increases were due to inflation. Maybe others did….but I didn’t! And I actually know something about construction. 

Edited November 17 by SoCal Deek

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Mr Weo….. I never said cost increases were due to inflation. Maybe others did….but I didn’t! And I actually know something about construction. 

I know you do.  I respect your knowledge of construction/design. It’s always on point with this thread about the stadium. 

 

Several others have mentioned several times  inflation  is a reason for overruns (not you).  I stated why I thought it wasn’t possible  by pointing out that inflation has decreased  significantly.  You jumped in to say inflation was not decreasing but “it’s just slowed the rate it’s going up”.  “it” in the context of your post, is “prices”.  The rate of price increase (inflation defined)  is going down. Prices alway go up. 

I was going to ask you upstream how steel purchase works for such a project.  Do you buy it all at once (as much as you can accurately predict you will need) and store it somewhere? Do you buy it in bunches as you build? Do you buy some sort of futures contract to lock in a price for the duration of the project, no matter how much you end up needing? 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

I know you do.  I respect your knowledge of construction/design. It’s always on point with this thread about the stadium. 

 

Several others have mentioned several times  inflation  is a reason for overruns (not you).  I stated why I thought it wasn’t possible  by pointing out that inflation has decreased  significantly.  You jumped in to say inflation was not decreasing but “it’s just slowed the rate it’s going up”.  “it” in the context of your post, is “prices”.  The rate of price increase (inflation defined)  is going down. Prices alway go up. 

I was going to ask you upstream how steel purchase works for such a project.  Do you buy it all at once (as much as you can accurately predict you will need) and store it somewhere? Do you buy it in bunches as you build? Do you buy some sort of futures contract to lock in a price for the duration of the project, no matter how much you end up needing? 

In most construction projects it makes no difference when the raw tonnage of steel is purchased. It’s a risk either way for the subcontractor. The price could go up or go down months after their bid. They cannot fabricate the steel into columns and beams until foundation work is complete and final measurements are taken. I hope that helps. 
 

As I’ve tried to communicate many times within this thread, I have no idea how the various clauses of this contract work. I can see it being possible that with the rate of inflation being what it was at the start of construction, the builders may have negotiated a clause protecting them against ANY increases. Again, I’m not saying they did. 
 

It is FAR MORE likely that price increases are due to the Bills Ownership decided to upgrade amenities, not inflation at all.

[WotAGuy]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

In most construction projects it makes no difference when the raw tonnage of steel is purchased. It’s a risk either way for the subcontractor. The price could go up or go down months after their bid. They cannot fabricate the steel into columns and beams until foundation work is complete and final measurements are taken. I hope that helps. 
 

As I’ve tried to communicate many times within this thread, I have no idea how the various clauses of this contract work. I can see it being possible that with the rate of inflation being what it was at the start of construction, the builders may have negotiated a clause protecting them against ANY increases. Again, I’m not saying they did. 
 

It is FAR MORE likely that price increases are due to the Bills Ownership decided to upgrade amenities, not inflation at all.

Isn’t it fair to say the cost of construction materials, specifically specialized items, have a market value that moves over time independent of the typical inflation measures which is often applied to household and private consumer goods?

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

Isn’t it fair to say the cost of construction materials, specifically specialized items, have a market value that moves over time independent of the typical inflation measures which is often applied to household and private consumer goods?

It is….however it generally doesn’t impact the cost of a specific construction project. Most people don’t understand that the contractors lock their prices in at the time of bid, before ground is ever broken. It makes no difference what’s happening to the price of bread. Make sense? 

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

In most construction projects it makes no difference when the raw tonnage of steel is purchased. It’s a risk either way for the subcontractor. The price could go up or go down months after their bid. They cannot fabricate the steel into columns and beams until foundation work is complete and final measurements are taken. I hope that helps. 
 

As I’ve tried to communicate many times within this thread, I have no idea how the various clauses of this contract work. I can see it being possible that with the rate of inflation being what it was at the start of construction, the builders may have negotiated a clause protecting them against ANY increases. Again, I’m not saying they did. 
 

It is FAR MORE likely that price increases are due to the Bills Ownership decided to upgrade amenities, not inflation at all.

 

Agree 100%.

 

And thanks for the info--waiting to fabricate the finished steel parts makes sense.  I guess I always assumed some or much of it would be constructed form standard length/size I beams or what not.  But it's not Lincoln Logs! lol

 

  Is the raw steel supplier also the fabricator of the columns/beams?

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Agree 100%.

 

And thanks for the info--waiting to fabricate the finished steel parts makes sense.  I guess I always assumed some or much of it would be constructed form standard length/size I beams or what not.  But it's not Lincoln Logs! lol

 

  Is the raw steel supplier also the fabricator of the columns/beams?

No. The steel supplier isn’t the fabricator. Just like the lumber yard isn’t the framer….and the concrete plant isn’t the concrete subcontractor. One supplies the material and the other cuts it to length and installs it. 
 

And interesting tidbit is the metal deck contractor (you can see deck being installed on the roof canopy) isn’t the same trade as the steel contractor. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

No. The steel supplier isn’t the fabricator. Just like the lumber yard isn’t the framer….and the concrete plant isn’t the concrete subcontractor. One supplies the material and the other cuts it to length and installs it. 
 

And interesting tidbit is the metal deck contractor (you can see deck being installed on the roof canopy) isn’t the same trade as the steel contractor. 

 

 a different steel fabrication trade?  are the tasks that different, re: the fabrication?  I know it's a different "part", but why different trades?

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 a different steel fabrication trade?  are the tasks that different, re: the fabrication?  I know it's a different "part", but why different trades?

The steel contractor takes the raw steel from the supplier and turns it into beams, posts, and columns. For example, a simple “I” beam is made by welding together two flanges and a web. The original three pieces are simple flat stock. Likewise a simple steel tube post, first has to have a top and bottom plate welded to it before it’s delivered and installed. Make sense? Different companies do different things. The farmer grows the wheat, the grain company processes it, and the baker turns it into bread. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The steel contractor takes the raw steel from the supplier and turns it into beams, posts, and columns. For example, a simple “I” beam is made by welding together two flanges and a web. The original three pieces are simple flat stock. Likewise a simple steel tube post, first has to have a top and bottom plate welded to it before it’s delivered and installed. Make sense? Different companies do different things. The farmer grows the wheat, the grain company processes it, and the baker turns it into bread. 

interesting-thanks. The more I ask the more I know!

[Don Otreply]

Just a little old 7 minute and 53 seconds drive, would be nice, 😁👍🍸🚬

Wtf Brady, run a different play once in a while, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Mack shoeless Joe Hollins!!! 

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Just a little old 7 minute and 53 seconds drive, would be nice, 😁👍🍸🚬

Wtf Brady, run a different play once in a while, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Mack shoeless Joe Hollins!!! 

Hey! Get out of our construction thread! 😂😂😂😂

[Neo]

To the learned …. has anyone read anything about the new stadium, its design, and noise?

 

Lungs and enthusiasm matter.   So does architecture.    Any design notes?

[Tierlifer]

Wish The Pegulas would’ve hired Mike Brady to do the new stadium. He could’ve whipped up something badass in that den of his. As long as Greg or Marsha didn’t interrupt him with some bullsh*t problem. 

[Saxum]

8 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

So what you should be saying is thank god there are unions for these guys out there so grown adults aren’t getting paid $9-$15 per hour to do highly skilled work 

 

Seems like he is unhappy not being paid union wages.

[ddaryl]

We all saw this coming, and I believe the Pegula's are responsible for cost over runs

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-new-stadium-costs-balloon-to-2-1-billion-560-million-over-initial-estimate-team-tells-ap

 

Quote

Taxpayers are committing a combined $850 million to the project — $600 million from the state and $250 million from the county. At the time of the deal reached two years ago, that represented more than half the cost of construction, but now, taxpayers will be responsible for about 40%. The Bills are responsible for any overruns beyond $1.54 billion.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I think a lot of cold weather teams will be watching this stadium closely. Can they save a lot of money going with the soccer stadium canopy construction or do they need the dome.
 

Im getting more excited about the stadium as it begins to take shape. Bills hopefully will be a great example for future cold weather stadiums.

[RiotAct]

3 hours ago, ddaryl said:

We all saw this coming, and I believe the Pegula's are responsible for cost over runs

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-new-stadium-costs-balloon-to-2-1-billion-560-million-over-initial-estimate-team-tells-ap

 

 

as long as it doesn’t somehow indirectly get passed down to the taxpayers, I’m good.

[TheFunPolice]

It's going to be an incredible stadium!

 

And a perfect outdoor, cold weather environment where football belongs, especially in WNY.

 

We have all kinds of outdoor events all winter long around these parts. We're outdoor people. Football is an outdoor game. 

 

When people talk about "putting the grill away for the season" we're confused. There's a grilling season? 

 

This is going to be a premier stadium and perfect for this market.