Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[WotAGuy]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So you never go to Sabres or Bandits games? You never go into the bars and restaurants around Key Bank Center beforehand? 🙄

Nope

[Augie]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Stupid paying for the more affordable option is subject to the person buying the tickets. I personally believe it’s stupid as I will not be around for 30 years to go to games. But yes, they should have chose the more expensive option. 
 

Regardless, it still doesn’t take away from the point that was made and that I commented on. 
 

Buffalo, Think small, be small 

 

I agree to some extent, but there is also the matter of being practical. I’m not sure the bigger ideas were economically viable. People are complaining about the cost now and pushing back. How would it go if we doubled the cost? That would not result in a pretty outcome. 

 

I don’t know much about Patriot Place, but The Battery (home of the Braves) in Atlanta is awesome. All kinds of mixed use and it’s great 365 days a year. It’s also in the middle of a MUCH LARGER market at the intersection of I-75 and 285 (the belt-line) in the “right part” of town. (The old stadium was in the ‘hood.) It’s easy in, easy out and draws people from all over. There were a half dozen hotels in walking distance before it was built, and they have added a couple upscale hotels on site. It’s terrific, but I don’t see how or where WNY could pull off anything like that. 

 

.

Edited September 22 by Augie

[PromoTheRobot]

20 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

God forbid some dude in Vermont doesn’t get what he wants, when he wants it. There’s always Patriot Place which you seem to like. 

 

What dude in VT are you referring to? I live in NH.

[PromoTheRobot]

37 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Nope

 

That explains a lot.

[Wacka]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:07 AM, mrags said:

And they would have maximized making their money back with commercial properties nearby. Instead they built it in the middle of nowhere that has nothing nearby. Where places like the McKinley Mall nearby are closing its doors because of the lack of retail interest. Yeah. Bang up decision. 

What are you smoking? The stadium was in the middle of nowhere  50 years ago. There was o McKinley Mal or WQuakert Crossings. Ever go down Southwestern (US20) ay 5 PM o a wekday? It's worse tha Niagara Falls Boulevard.

[WotAGuy]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That explains a lot.

Like you, I don’t live there.  And just because there are a couple restaurants and bars, doesn’t make it an “entertainment hub”. I’m referring to places with downtowns that are destinations, like Nashville. 

23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

What dude in VT are you referring to? I live in NH.

Same thing. 

Edited September 22 by WotAGuy

[mrags]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I agree to some extent, but there is also the matter of being practical. I’m not sure the bigger ideas were economically viable. People are complaining about the cost now and pushing back. How would it go if we doubled the cost? That would not result in a pretty outcome. 

 

I don’t know much about Patriot Place, but The Battery (home of the Braves) in Atlanta is awesome. All kinds of mixed use and it’s great 365 days a year. It’s also in the middle of a MUCH LARGER market at the intersection of I-75 and 285 (the belt-line) in the “right part” of town. (The old stadium was in the ‘hood.) It’s easy in, easy out and draws people from all over. There were a half dozen hotels in walking distance before it was built, and they have added a couple upscale hotels on site. It’s terrific, but I don’t see how or where WNY could pull off anything like that. 

 

.

Everything you just talked about in Atlanta, and I’ve never been so I cannot confirm is 100% correct. You just talked about a half a dozen hotels in walking distance, the building of a few more as well. Then add in bars and restaurants and other retail. What was the Harbor Center downtown before Pegula came here? There was no Ralph Wilson Children’s Museum, there was no Harbor Center. No 716 or whatever the hell it is called now. Since Pegula bought the Sabres the area has added all that. Plus a Hotel, plus a skating rink. Multiple concerts every year. Multiple breweries and restaurants and bars have emerged. The Commercial Slip/naval  park area has grown. There’s been plenty. 
 

and just as all that is true, the same would be true if a new stadium was built downtown. The point of semantics is a different argument altogether. You talk of use 365 days a year. You want to know where there is no use 365 days a year? The middle of Orchard Park. 
 

people would complain about the cost no matter what. As you pointed out they are now anyway. So why not have made it worth while. And do some good where it might make a difference. Many will argue that a stadium downtown wouldn’t make a difference, wouldn’t help the area at all. That may be true, we will never know. But you want to know something that is certain? Is that a new stadium in Orchard Park will NEVER make a difference. We’ve had one there for 50 years and all it’s done is sprouted up a few dumpy bars and restaurants that get used 12 times a year if we’re lucky. 

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I agree to some extent, but there is also the matter of being practical. I’m not sure the bigger ideas were economically viable. People are complaining about the cost now and pushing back. How would it go if we doubled the cost? That would not result in a pretty outcome. 

 

I don’t know much about Patriot Place, but The Battery (home of the Braves) in Atlanta is awesome. All kinds of mixed use and it’s great 365 days a year. It’s also in the middle of a MUCH LARGER market at the intersection of I-75 and 285 (the belt-line) in the “right part” of town. (The old stadium was in the ‘hood.) It’s easy in, easy out and draws people from all over. There were a half dozen hotels in walking distance before it was built, and they have added a couple upscale hotels on site. It’s terrific, but I don’t see how or where WNY could pull off anything like that. 

 

 

One thing to keep in mind: Atlanta didn’t simply spawn one day and become popular. It became what it is today over time. Via improvements - infrastructure, businesses, construction, etc.

 

If WNY ever wants a chance of becoming better, they must invest BIG - not small - into the downtown.

 

If 50 years ago Atlanta had that same attitude - we can’t afford or handle or accommodate such a large investment - then they wouldn’t be the Atlanta we know today. They are only what we know today because they were once small and grew.

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

 

Same thing. 

Don't say that in NH. 😂

Edited September 22 by PromoTheRobot

[WotAGuy]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

One thing to keep in mind: Atlanta didn’t simply spawn one day and become popular. It became what it is today over time. Via improvements - infrastructure, businesses, construction, etc.

 

If WNY ever wants a chance of becoming better, they must invest BIG - not small - into the downtown.

 

If 50 years ago Atlanta had that same attitude - we can’t afford or handle or accommodate such a large investment - then they wouldn’t be the Atlanta we know today. They are only what we know today because they were once small and grew.

Atlanta didn’t grow because they built a stadium downtown. And honestly, it’s kind of a nightmare trying to get around down there. 
 

The state has been investing in downtown Buffalo for a while. The Pegulas have helped, but the idea is to have venues that are attractions more than a handful of days a year. The Bisons stadium made sense - it has a small footprint, doesn’t require additional infrastructure and is used many times during the year. 

Edited September 22 by WotAGuy

[mrags]

15 minutes ago, Wacka said:

What are you smoking? The stadium was in the middle of nowhere  50 years ago. There was o McKinley Mal or WQuakert Crossings. Ever go down Southwestern (US20) ay 5 PM o a wekday? It's worse tha Niagara Falls Boulevard.

Niagara Falls goes on for miles. From Buffalo all the way to Niagara Falls lol. And it’s busy and packed all the way. McKinley Mall and Quaker Crossing area cover what? 2 miles? That’s funny dude. And let’s not mention the fact that the McKinley mall is a failure. It’s closing its doors. Every business is moving out. 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

One thing to keep in mind: Atlanta didn’t simply spawn one day and become popular. It became what it is today over time. Via improvements - infrastructure, businesses, construction, etc.

 

If WNY ever wants a chance of becoming better, they must invest BIG - not small - into the downtown.

 

If 50 years ago Atlanta had that same attitude - we can’t afford or handle or accommodate such a large investment - then they wouldn’t be the Atlanta we know today. They are only what we know today because they were once small and grew.

Thank you. Exactly my point. And as @PromoTheRobot stated. Buffalo… Think small, be small. 

[WotAGuy]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

Thank you. Exactly my point. And as @PromoTheRobot stated. Buffalo… Think small, be small. 

Think small, be small.  Promo knows all about that living in NH, amirite?

[Augie]

Atlanta grew because people came here for jobs (and lots of them) and can afford to pay for the amenities available. 

 

The reason we don’t have a stadium going in downtown is the extra BILLION$  that it would take to get it done. As I’ve said, downtown was my preference, but it’s not happening. I don’t understand complaining about it being too expensive, but we should have made it more expensive. We might want a Bentley, but we can reasonably afford a Toyota. 

[That's No Moon]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

One thing to keep in mind: Atlanta didn’t simply spawn one day and become popular. It became what it is today over time. Via improvements - infrastructure, businesses, construction, etc.

This is also their 3rd baseball stadium and 3rd football stadium since 1990. The footprints have moved.  Football #3 is close to where football #2 was, Baseball #2 was close to baseball #1 but baseball #3 is nowhere close and that's the one that was the most successful.

 

 

[WotAGuy]

4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

This is also their 3rd baseball stadium and 3rd football stadium since 1990. The footprints have moved.  Football #3 is close to where football #2 was, Baseball #2 was close to baseball #1 but baseball #3 is nowhere close and that's the one that was the most successful.

 

 

Three football stadiums since 1990?  Georgia Dome and The Benz, what was the other?  Atlanta - Fulton County?

[That's No Moon]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

Three football stadiums since 1990?  Georgia Dome and The Benz, what was the other?  Atlanta - Fulton County?

Football started in Fulton County Stadium, then Georgia Dome, then Megatron's Butthole.

 

Baseball was Fulton County, Olympic Stadium (I forget the corporate name), now Truist Park out in Cobb County.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

Atlanta didn’t grow because they built a stadium downtown. 

 

You pulled that straight out of you know where.

 

Stadiums in downtown Atlanta have been a key driver of the city's growth, starting with Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium in 1965 and continuing through the Georgia Dome and Mercedes-Benz Stadium. Each of these venues attracted major events like the Super Bowl, World Series, and the Olympics, which generated tourism, created jobs, and stimulated local businesses. But all of these developments were dwarfed by the stadium causing urban development to spur around it, including new hotels, restaurants, and transit improvements. Thats where big growth was. Oh - and also the marketing involved with hosting these events (1966 all-star game ring a bell?) elevated Atlanta's national profile.

 

So, can we say that Atlantas growth is due solely to downtown stadiums? Of course not. But was it a significant driver? An enzyme of growth if you will? Absolutely. Atlanta’s metro pop was about 1 mil in 1960. Erie County? Also 1 mil. Atlanta began building their first stadium downtown in the early 1960’s. 

 

 

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

 

The state has been investing in downtown Buffalo for a while. The Pegulas have helped, but the idea is to have venues that are attractions more than a handful of days a year. The Bisons stadium made sense - it has a small footprint, doesn’t require additional infrastructure and is used many times during the year. 

 

Notice what you said - “small”. 

 

That is how it has been for a very long.

[WotAGuy]

Just now, That's No Moon said:

Football started in Fulton County Stadium, then Georgia Dome, then Megatron's Butthole.

 

Baseball was Fulton County, Olympic Stadium (I forget the corporate name), now Truist Park out in Cobb County.

I remember the Tommy Nobis Falcons in Fulton County Stadium. 

[Einstein]

Atlanta grew because people flock to jobs. Where are there jobs? Where businesses are. Where are there businesses? Where growth and investment is. Stadiums spur much of that.

 

It’s not a complicated formula.

[WotAGuy]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You pulled that straight out of you know where.

 

Stadiums in downtown Atlanta have been a key driver of the city's growth, starting with Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium in 1965 and continuing through the Georgia Dome and Mercedes-Benz Stadium. Each of these venues attracted major events like the Super Bowl, World Series, and the Olympics, which generated tourism, created jobs, and stimulated local businesses. But all of these developments were dwarfed by the stadium causing urban development to spur around it, including new hotels, restaurants, and transit improvements. Thats where big growth was. Oh - and also the marketing involved with hosting these events (1966 all-star game ring a bell?) elevated Atlanta's national profile.

 

So, can we say that Atlantas growth is due solely to downtown stadiums? Of course not. But was it a significant driver? An enzyme of growth if you will? Absolutely. Atlanta’s metro pop was about 1 mil in 1960. Erie County? Also 1 mil. Atlanta began building their first stadium downtown in the early 1960’s. 

 

 

 

Notice what you said - “small”. 

 

That is how it has been for a very long.

If the venue was the driver for those huge events, then Syracuse would have hosted an NCAA championship game instead of regionals. 
 

Correlation is not causation. Atlanta has much more going for it than its stadiums; a city needs more than bars and restaurants that a stadium crowd wants. Atlanta has a huge number of corporations and large businesses that drive the economy and have nothing to do with their stadiums. 

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Atlanta grew because people flock to jobs. Where are there jobs? Where businesses are. Where are there businesses? Where growth and investment is. Stadiums spur much of that.

 

It’s not a complicated formula.

 

So, all you gotta do is build a stadium downtown and watch the jobs flow in?  Got it. 

Edited September 22 by WotAGuy