Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[mjd1001]

On 7/27/2024 at 12:42 PM, That's No Moon said:

They did something like that in Foxboro. At the end of the day it's still your average shopping center with a couple hotels. It's something, but it's not game changing in anyway. Something actually cool like what they have for Atlanta's baseball stadium I frankly don't think is possible in WNY. Especially out in OP.

I agree about Patriot place in Foxboro.

 

First time I was there I was thinking, this is great!  partially covered outdoor mall, a couple interesting restaurants, a dine-in movie theater.  It was a fun visit.  A year after our first visit we went there again and the novelty wore off. It was just that, a novelty, a shopping/entertainment area near the stadium that, once you visit it, its kinda 'eh'.  

 

And I think it would do better in Foxboro, a LOT more people live within a 20-30 minute drive there than they would in Orchard Park. I'm not quite sure the same concept would work here (actually, pretty sure it wouldn't).

[mjd1001]

On 7/27/2024 at 1:12 PM, LabattBlue said:

I think the simplest thing would be to start with a Bills HoF(adjacent to the new stadium).   Combined with stadium tours, it could be a year round attraction. 
 

Sadly, I don’t think this is in the works.  
😞

Bills hall of fame open everyday, with stadium tours should be in the mix, I think it probably will be.

 

Beyond that, as others have said, not sure what you can do.

 

The more I think about it, even as writing this, the more I think the best thing is the stadium, ample parking/tailgaiting (its what fans here want), maybe a large gathering spot for bands/events right inside or outside the gates, Bills store, Bill HOF, and thats it.  This stadium is likely not to be an economic driver for anyone/anything except for Pegula and the NFL. Just make it enjoyable for fans who go to the games.

Edited August 10 by mjd1001

[WotAGuy]

Just put a Dave and Busters there and boom! 

[LeGOATski]

5 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Just put a Dave and Busters there and boom! 

Better yet, an Applebee's!

[Blank Stare]

8 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

[PromoTheRobot]

13 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Better yet, an Applebee's!

The Marshawn Lunch memorial Applebee's. It's a fresh of breath air!

Edited August 10 by PromoTheRobot

[Einstein]

On 7/27/2024 at 2:43 PM, LeGOATski said:

This has been the biggest road block for people to get their minds around. Buffalo is not Seattle or Atlanta, or even Minneapolis, Cleveland, Nashville. Stop acting like Buffalo could be successful with the same set-ups.

It would absolutely work in Buffalo. Anyone who goes to Sabres games can attest to the options of fun things to do within a mile of the arena.

Unfortunately, the Bills don't play in Buffalo  - they play in Orchard Park. And you're right that it would not work in OP.

Which is why many people wanted the stadium in Buffalo.

[Just Jack]

On 8/9/2024 at 2:17 PM, Mr. WEO said:

malls?  what year is this--1985?

 

Syracuse is down to one mall, and they're having problems keeping that filled.  There's even a Spirit Halloween store going in there this year.  

[SectionC3]

On 7/27/2024 at 12:18 PM, Draconator said:

You make excellent points. The Village of Orchard Park, however, is not as forward-thinking and is not going to allow commercial buildings that will allow what you speak of. 

Meanwhile, just up the road, the McKinley mall is dead.  

 

The stadium is what it is.  It's probably good for 10-15 large events each year.  The parking lots can be used for stuff like RV and boat shows.  But all of this development people talk about . . . if it was going to happen, one would think it would have happened at some point since 1973.  

 

And these guys trying to sell their lots . . . I hope it works for them.  I really do.  But you are one heck of a sucker if you're thinking about spending $3.5m for a place on Big Tree when, to my understanding, the new stadium will have fewer seats and more parking spots than the current location. 

Edited August 11 by SectionC3

[mjd1001]

36 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

Syracuse is down to one mall, and they're having problems keeping that filled.  There's even a Spirit Halloween store going in there this year.  

Malls are being replaced with 'lifestyle centers', and they seem to be doing well (not always 100 percent full, but for sure better than malls).  Easton Town Center in Columbus is a big one.  Assembly Row in Boston is packed in the spring/summer.  There are a lot more.  Basically, take a mall, make it outdoors and pedestrian friendly, focus a bit more on restaurants and activities and a bit less on stores. Throw in a hotel or two, maybe an office/company headquarters, some luxury apartments, make it seem like its its own village/city block, and people seem to like that a lot more than traditional malls.  BUT, you need a decent population density nearby and those people need to have a decent amount of $$ if you want it to work.

 

Assembly row in Boston seems to be doing well (and they are considering building the new Soccer stadium there). But it has buiit in advantages. It still seems to me to be primarily a shopping/dining destination, but its Only a couple miles from Downtown Boston.  On the river.  Its own subway station.  A large medical office and a corporate headquarters to make sure there are always workers in the area, in addition to visitors/residents.  I can't see any of that being replicated in OP.

Edited August 11 by mjd1001

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Malls are being replaced with 'lifestyle centers', and they seem to be doing well (not always 100 percent full, but for sure better than malls).  Easton Town Center in Columbus is a big one.  Assembly Row in Boston is packed in the spring/summer.  There are a lot more.  Basically, take a mall, make it outdoors and pedestrian friendly, focus a bit more on restaurants and activities and a bit less on stores. Throw in a hotel or two, maybe an office/company headquarters, some luxury apartments, make it seem like its its own village/city block, and people seem to like that a lot more than traditional malls.  BUT, you need a decent population density nearby and those people need to have a decent amount of $$ if you want it to work.

 

why would anyone want to go to an outdoor shopping center in Orchard Park, let alone stay in a "hotel or two" there?  it's the kind of  place where you go to see a game and then leave as soon as possible.

 

these statements always make no sense. If there was money to be made there, it would already exist. 

 

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

why would anyone want to go to an outdoor shopping center in Orchard Park, let alone stay in a "hotel or two" there?  it's the kind of  place where you go to see a game and then leave as soon as possible.

 

these statements always make no sense. If there was money to be made there, it would already exist. 

 

I'm agreeing it probably won't work in Orchard park, before you say the statement make no sense, how about reading it carefully and then telling me why it works in the places I mentioned?  

 

I said it won't work in OP because of the population center and lack of money, but it not working has NOTHING to do with anything else I said. Again, look at the examples I gave. Why does it work there but not OP?  For the reasons I stated. You replying to me the way you did, that makes no sense. 

Do you actually read or do you just feel the need to criticize a post despite what it says? I did end my very post you are replying to with me saying I can't see it working in OP?

Edited August 11 by mjd1001

[Augie]

Everything a mall used to sell me is now delivered to my door. If we do ever find ourselves in a retail situation, we generally end up taking a picture of the label and ordering from home because they don’t have the exact size, color, etc that I want. Traditional malls are going the way of the typewriter and the abacus. The “lifestyle centers” with restaurants and dinner theaters, etc  are the best option for that space, but obviously the location remains critical. 

 

My preference would have been a downtown stadium so I could walk to everything from my hotel. I will happily “settle” for anything as long as the Bills remain in WNY. 

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm agreeing it probably won't work in Orchard park, before you say the statement make no sense, how about reading it carefully and then telling me why it works in the places I mentioned?  

 

I said it won't work in OP because of the population center and lack of money, but it not working has NOTHING to do with anything else I said. Again, look at the examples I gave. Why does it work there but not OP?  For the reasons I stated. You replying to me the way you did, that makes no sense. 

Do you actually read or do you just feel the need to criticize a post despite what it says? I did end my very post you are replying to with me saying I can't see it working in OP?

 

I read what you wrote, and it seemed perfectly clear and sensible to me. Of course, I’m not just trying to pick an argument. 

[Mr. WEO]

22 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm agreeing it probably won't work in Orchard park, before you say the statement make no sense, how about reading it carefully and then telling me why it works in the places I mentioned?  

 

I said it won't work in OP because of the population center and lack of money, but it not working has NOTHING to do with anything else I said. Again, look at the examples I gave. Why does it work there but not OP?  For the reasons I stated. You replying to me the way you did, that makes no sense. 

Do you actually read or do you just feel the need to criticize a post despite what it says? I did end my very post you are replying to with me saying I can't see it working in OP?

 

It wasn't directed at you alone.  Plenty have posted in this thread and others over the years about malls and hotels and "NCAA Final Fours", etc, in OP.   

 

But yes, large popular cities can build almost any commercial center and it will likely  succeed.  I agree with that.  Malls per se are dead. 

[mrags]

40 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Meanwhile, just up the road, the McKinley mall is dead.  

 

The stadium is what it is.  It's probably good for 10-15 large events each year.  The parking lots can be used for stuff like RV and boat shows.  But all of this development people talk about . . . if it was going to happen, one would think it would have happened at some point since 1973.  

 

And these guys trying to sell their lots . . . I hope it works for them.  I really do.  But you are one heck of a sucker if you're thinking about spending $3.5m for a place on Big Tree when, to my understanding, the new stadium will have fewer seats and more parking spots than the current location. 

FYI the new stadium will have fewer seats and parking spots. But the new stadium will take up significantly more space than the current stadium.  The footprint is much larger, which will eliminate some of the parking there was before. 
 

and the people trying to sell their lots are 100% trying to get the Bills to buy them out. 

[SectionC3]

53 minutes ago, mrags said:

FYI the new stadium will have fewer seats and parking spots. But the new stadium will take up significantly more space than the current stadium.  The footprint is much larger, which will eliminate some of the parking there was before. 
 

and the people trying to sell their lots are 100% trying to get the Bills to buy them out. 

I skimmed the traffic study and I’m not totally sure about the parking issue.  I thought there would be a marginal increase once the existing stadium is raised.  But even if parking is comparable they’re still goin to have 10-15% fewer patrons in the new place.  So unless these lots are doing several hundred K annually … I doubt there’s going to be internet at close to list price.  And,  if the play was the bills, wouldn’t the bills have approached before paying a 6 to 8% premium to an agent?  Wishful thinking for many of these people. 

[mrags]

9 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I skimmed the traffic study and I’m not totally sure about the parking issue.  I thought there would be a marginal increase once the existing stadium is raised.  But even if parking is comparable they’re still goin to have 10-15% fewer patrons in the new place.  So unless these lots are doing several hundred K annually … I doubt there’s going to be internet at close to list price.  And,  if the play was the bills, wouldn’t the bills have approached before paying a 6 to 8% premium to an agent?  Wishful thinking for many of these people. 

Well. I know for a fact that at least 1 lot owner was in talks with the bills to sell their property. 

[SectionC3]

12 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well. I know for a fact that at least 1 lot owner was in talks with the bills to sell their property. 

Probably didn’t work and the bills will sweat them.  The bills have the money and time to wait.  The owners have opportunity … and have since 1973.  Someone in that block has to go first, and that could present a real problem for the agent who

might be a little conflicted by having so many clients who might be competing against each other. 

[mrags]

30 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Probably didn’t work and the bills will sweat them.  The bills have the money and time to wait.  The owners have opportunity … and have since 1973.  Someone in that block has to go first, and that could present a real problem for the agent who

might be a little conflicted by having so many clients who might be competing against each other. 

The mud lot was sold over a year ago for millions. And the only reason why talks stalled were because Ron Raccuia was let go and he was the one that was negotiating with everyone. After he left a new contact had to be re-acclimated with all the sellers. 
 

you can keep saying it isn’t going to happen all you want. But the fact is the Bills ARE in talks with multiple property owners to purchase their land and have already in some cases. 

Edited August 11 by mrags

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Meanwhile, just up the road, the McKinley mall is dead.  

 

The stadium is what it is.  It's probably good for 10-15 large events each year.  The parking lots can be used for stuff like RV and boat shows.  But all of this development people talk about . . . if it was going to happen, one would think it would have happened at some point since 1973.  

 

And these guys trying to sell their lots . . . I hope it works for them.  I really do.  But you are one heck of a sucker if you're thinking about spending $3.5m for a place on Big Tree when, to my understanding, the new stadium will have fewer seats and more parking spots than the current location. 

 

But the new parking lot spots will have EV Recharging, food order deliveries and high speed Wi-Fi connections!