The Ravens’ LB Patrick Queen is rumored to be a trade candidate.

[NeverOutNick]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

He was terrible until they traded for Smith to play beside him.  
 

I wanted us to draft him, but he severely underperformed.  

Agreed. If we were going to spend on a LB it would’ve been on Roquan Smith. That dude is one of the few LBers in the league actually worth the money. 
 

I think Lavonte was the short term answer but now that we have Rapp I have a feeling we’re going to see some pretty unique hybrid defenses from our boy McDermott this year 

[Tipster19]

33 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Meaning the clueless trade Oliver clan has no realistic plan.  
 

 

 

31 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Hahah ahh gotcha.

 

Ya I don’t see the reason behind it, just genuinely curious why people want to trade him.

 

I can’t see a scenario where it would make the team better if they traded him 

I’m not clamoring to trade Oliver because I have a personal vendetta and/or to trade him just to trade him without a plan. I’ve been pounding the table now about getting a return on a high price asset. I found myself realizing this in the hindsight of Tremaine Edmunds walking out the door and getting nothing in return. If getting a compensatory pick as compensation for a high 1st rd draft pick works for you then fine but it doesn’t work for me. 
 

One other note. I watched Sal Capaccio the other night and he stated something that I found interesting. At no time under McDermott’s watch have we kept more than 4 DTs on the roster. We currently have 5.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Tipster19

[John from Riverside]

Just give me one of these veteran pass rushers still in the market and I’m good to go on the training camp

[BillsFan130]

20 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

 

I’m not clamoring to trade Oliver because I have a personal vendetta and/or to trade him just to trade him without a plan. I’ve been pounding the table now about getting a return on a high price asset. I found myself realizing this in the hindsight of Tremaine Edmunds walking out the door and getting nothing in return. If getting a compensatory pick as compensation for a high 1st rd draft pick works for you then fine but it doesn’t work for me. 
 

One other note. I watched Sal Capaccio the other night and he stated something that I found interesting. At no time under McDermott’s watch have we kept more than 4 DTs on the roster. We currently have 5.

That’s all fair.

 

But again, if you trade him what’s the plan?

 

To that point, I think settle could be cut or traded. Or may be inactive on game days.

 

If you trade Oliver, you are going into the season as Jordan Phillips as probably your number one 3 tech… (unless Ford plays more 3 tech)

 

I don’t know about you, but that’s a nightmare scenario. Especially given Phillips injury history

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by BillsFan130

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Genuine question- why do you want the bills to trade Oliver? I see it a lot.

 

The way I see it:

 

Is he great? No but he’s still a descent to good starting 3 tech.

 

I get trading him would save you almost 11 mil, but then you are just leaving a gaping hole when it comes to a penetrating 3 tech.

 

Like if you trade Oliver, what would be your plan with the 11 mil in cap space? 

I, personally, want bigger DT’s .. especially with the switch to smaller/faster linebackers. 
 

It’s getting harder to justify moving him as free agency goes deeper into the off-season.  Which is why I wouldn’t in a hypothetical Patrick Queen swap.  
 

Now, would i rather have Ngakoue and whoever the next best available DT in FA is over Oliver?… yes. 

[JJGauna]

Show me a 200+ page thread about him and I’ll consider it.

[BillsFanForever19]

Say it with me people...

 

Ed

Oliver

Won't 

Be 

Traded

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Say it with me people...

 

Ed

Oliver

Won't 

Be 

Traded

 

At this stage trading him just leaves us with a huge hole. We will start the season with him as our best defensive lineman if Von is out. 

8 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I said it in another thread but I would trade for Kenneth Murray. Bills liked him pre draft and the Chargers rejected his 5th year option and he seems to really have fallen out of favor. 

 

Yea if youbare going to throw a late round pick at a high upside linebacker that is the one to do.

[SydneyBillsFan]

13 hours ago, Virgil said:

He was terrible until they traded for Smith to play beside him.  
 

I wanted us to draft him, but he severely underperformed.  

 

Yep....I remember paying a visit to the Ravens forum after the Bills@Ravens game. To say that Queen was the whipping boy would be an understatement.

 

A big NO from me.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

57 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Yep....I remember paying a visit to the Ravens forum after the Bills@Ravens game. To say that Queen was the whipping boy would be an understatement.

 

A big NO from me.

But are they erudite sages of the game?

Or clueless luddites?

Or a mix?

*
You know, like us? 😁

[JoPoy88]

14 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I would love to see the Bills make a trade for him. I checked what the Ravens are still in need of and DT was one of the positions of need. Now that the Bills signed Poona Ford could Ed Oliver be expendable in some kind trade for Queen? I don’t know what would be fair compensation in a trade scenario involving these 2 but I’m not against the concept if it were to materialize. 

nice idea. Only problem is the guy blows.

[SydneyBillsFan]

48 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

But are they erudite sages of the game?

Or clueless luddites?

Or a mix?

*
You know, like us? 😁

 

They are Ravens fans, the sense of entitlement is much stronger IMO.

[4merper4mer]

11 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

 

I’m not clamoring to trade Oliver because I have a personal vendetta and/or to trade him just to trade him without a plan. I’ve been pounding the table now about getting a return on a high price asset. I found myself realizing this in the hindsight of Tremaine Edmunds walking out the door and getting nothing in return. If getting a compensatory pick as compensation for a high 1st rd draft pick works for you then fine but it doesn’t work for me. 
 

One other note. I watched Sal Capaccio the other night and he stated something that I found interesting. At no time under McDermott’s watch have we kept more than 4 DTs on the roster. We currently have 5.

Let’s objectively analyze the approaches taken by both the Underpants gnomes and by you.

 

We can define #3, profit, the same way for both.  I’ll even give the Oliver crowd a bit of a break as I think you should,  Profit is revenue-cost.  We'll get to that in a minute as although I think you’re calculating the cost of Oliver correctly from a technical standpoint, you are calculating it incorrectly from a practical standpoint.  Given the definition of profit we’re employing we can proceed.

 

Step 1

 

Underpants Gnomes:

 

Step 1 for the gnomes is stealing underpants.  This establishes the cost of the underpants as near zero.  The only costs involved are the labor expended on the theft and the cost of the inventory.  In the episode, the gnomes look as if they have nothing better to do than steal the underpants and they appear to live in large caves with plenty of space and no rent so the inventory cost is negligible.  In effect their cost is zero.

 

You:

 

You’ve established our cost of Oliver as the first round pick we used, his 2023 cap hit plus the third round comp pick we won’t get if we trade or release him.  Releasing him gets us nothing in return for those costs other than the cap hit relief.  In order to profit from a trade, the value you seek needs to exceed your established cost.  I’d argue that you should not include the first round status as part of your cost because we’ve already received three years of play in return.  You don’t feel that play has been up to snuff, but even if it is a bad return, it is still a return.  In addition, we cannot go back in time and undo the pick.  Those costs are what is known as “sunk”.  I think in establishing whether a trade is “profitable” it should only be required to exceed the value of a 2024 3rd rounder plus the lost production we’d get from Oliver in 2023.  

 

Step 2

 

Underpants gnomes:

 

They appear clueless about how to proceed and achieve profit.  The obvious choice would be to sell the underpants and take whatever money they could get.  It would probably be a small number, but given the zero cost, a 100% margin.  Their problem is there isn’t really a market for used underpants.  If I were a management consultant employed by the gnomes I’d point out that they have already resorted to theft, which is wrong, but as long as they were doing that, they should steal piggy banks instead of underpants.  This way they could skip step 2 altogether. I would congratulate the gnomes on their objective and enthusiastic approach to their business despite its current lack of success.  Perhaps some day they will find a solution.

 

You:

 

if you agree that the cost of Oliver is a 2024 third plus his potential 2023 production, we can proceed.  When Oliver is gone we instantly receive the opportunity to repurpose his cap $ for 2023 so that would be at least part of the return.  I think you’re saying we could get more production from the use of those $ on other players either traded for or signed than from Oliver.  You haven’t named any players that I’ve seen but we can leave that to the side.  You haven’t named a team that would take Oliver and pay more than the 2024 third we’d already get.  You can’t really give an example of a player that has garnered more.  As a matter of fact, the most recent trade of a player in Oliver’s age range and relative status was D’Andre Swift, who netted a 2025 4th.  You’ve also left out how we’d utilize the $ saved on Oliver.  In a way you have more ??????? than the gnomes but still require higher standards.  If I were a management consultant employed by you, I’d quit.

 

Overall summary:

 

Both you and the Underpants Gnomes want to achieve profit and neither can figure out how.  
 

The gnomes have stalled in their attempt.  They realize they are stalled but continue to enthusiastically try to solve their problem.

 

You have a conundrum similar to the gnomes as there is no real solution to the problem as you’ve defined it.  In your own words, rather than maintaining enthusiasm in the pursuit of an answer, you’ve resorted to emotionally “pounding the table”.  
 

I’d say neither you nor the gnomes are likely to achieve your goals without resetting them or changing the approach.  It appears the gnomes have a better chance at success because of their slightly better use of logic and immensely better attitude.  Just my opinion though.

[Paul Costa]

I wanted him too. Until I realized the reason he started playing better was they moved him from the MIKE. We got enough off ball LB’s no thanks

[Big Turk]

No thanks.

[SCBills]

13 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

 

I’m not clamoring to trade Oliver because I have a personal vendetta and/or to trade him just to trade him without a plan. I’ve been pounding the table now about getting a return on a high price asset. I found myself realizing this in the hindsight of Tremaine Edmunds walking out the door and getting nothing in return. If getting a compensatory pick as compensation for a high 1st rd draft pick works for you then fine but it doesn’t work for me. 
 

One other note. I watched Sal Capaccio the other night and he stated something that I found interesting. At no time under McDermott’s watch have we kept more than 4 DTs on the roster. We currently have 5.

It seems like DT play might be more important when the MLB is a bit undersized. 

Also, have to wonder if they got sick and tired of playing injured DT’s and calling up PS squad guys all last year. 
 

Unless traded, Oliver is a lock, same with Daquan and Poona.  Settle seems like a cut candidate BUT he redid his contract and apparently played hurt all last year so…. And Phillips is actually good, when he’s not hurt. 

[papazoid]

i'm not against trading oliver...

 

but not for queen

[ExWNYer]

3 minutes ago, papazoid said:

i'm not against trading oliver...

 

but not for queen

 

Trading for Queen would be a drag...

[Tipster19]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Let’s objectively analyze the approaches taken by both the Underpants gnomes and by you.

 

We can define #3, profit, the same way for both.  I’ll even give the Oliver crowd a bit of a break as I think you should,  Profit is revenue-cost.  We'll get to that in a minute as although I think you’re calculating the cost of Oliver correctly from a technical standpoint, you are calculating it incorrectly from a practical standpoint.  Given the definition of profit we’re employing we can proceed.

 

Step 1

 

Underpants Gnomes:

 

Step 1 for the gnomes is stealing underpants.  This establishes the cost of the underpants as near zero.  The only costs involved are the labor expended on the theft and the cost of the inventory.  In the episode, the gnomes look as if they have nothing better to do than steal the underpants and they appear to live in large caves with plenty of space and no rent so the inventory cost is negligible.  In effect their cost is zero.

 

You:

 

You’ve established our cost of Oliver as the first round pick we used, his 2023 cap hit plus the third round comp pick we won’t get if we trade or release him.  Releasing him gets us nothing in return for those costs other than the cap hit relief.  In order to profit from a trade, the value you seek needs to exceed your established cost.  I’d argue that you should not include the first round status as part of your cost because we’ve already received three years of play in return.  You don’t feel that play has been up to snuff, but even if it is a bad return, it is still a return.  In addition, we cannot go back in time and undo the pick.  Those costs are what is known as “sunk”.  I think in establishing whether a trade is “profitable” it should only be required to exceed the value of a 2024 3rd rounder plus the lost production we’d get from Oliver in 2023.  

 

Step 2

 

Underpants gnomes:

 

They appear clueless about how to proceed and achieve profit.  The obvious choice would be to sell the underpants and take whatever money they could get.  It would probably be a small number, but given the zero cost, a 100% margin.  Their problem is there isn’t really a market for used underpants.  If I were a management consultant employed by the gnomes I’d point out that they have already resorted to theft, which is wrong, but as long as they were doing that, they should steal piggy banks instead of underpants.  This way they could skip step 2 altogether. I would congratulate the gnomes on their objective and enthusiastic approach to their business despite its current lack of success.  Perhaps some day they will find a solution.

 

You:

 

if you agree that the cost of Oliver is a 2024 third plus his potential 2023 production, we can proceed.  When Oliver is gone we instantly receive the opportunity to repurpose his cap $ for 2023 so that would be at least part of the return.  I think you’re saying we could get more production from the use of those $ on other players either traded for or signed than from Oliver.  You haven’t named any players that I’ve seen but we can leave that to the side.  You haven’t named a team that would take Oliver and pay more than the 2024 third we’d already get.  You can’t really give an example of a player that has garnered more.  As a matter of fact, the most recent trade of a player in Oliver’s age range and relative status was D’Andre Swift, who netted a 2025 4th.  You’ve also left out how we’d utilize the $ saved on Oliver.  In a way you have more ??????? than the gnomes but still require higher standards.  If I were a management consultant employed by you, I’d quit.

 

Overall summary:

 

Both you and the Underpants Gnomes want to achieve profit and neither can figure out how.  
 

The gnomes have stalled in their attempt.  They realize they are stalled but continue to enthusiastically try to solve their problem.

 

You have a conundrum similar to the gnomes as there is no real solution to the problem as you’ve defined it.  In your own words, rather than maintaining enthusiasm in the pursuit of an answer, you’ve resorted to emotionally “pounding the table”.  
 

I’d say neither you nor the gnomes are likely to achieve your goals without resetting them or changing the approach.  It appears the gnomes have a better chance at success because of their slightly better use of logic and immensely better attitude.  Just my opinion though.

This is so freaking hysterical…..and intelligent! Thanks for this great response, it’s worth putting up with all the muck to discover a gem like you.

 

Now in response to your response. I didn’t pick Oliver nor am I going to be the one to decide who his successor is going to be. All I did was suggest that a return on the investment should be considered more intently than what I perceived with what the past has shown. To be specific it looks like Poona would be the replacement to me. Once again that was decided by the higher ups. Btw, I believe that I could achieve profit if given the opportunity but I’m not. I can’t do it being a casual fan, I would need the same resources as the powers to be have.
 

It’s no secret that this franchise has found themselves cashed strapped by the league’s regulations. Removing Oliver off the books now but more importantly in the near future  is a form of compensation in it’s own rite. The reference that the gnomes are using slightly better logic than me strikes me as a contradiction. There is no logic in fear, which I believe is the case of the majority of opinions in not moving Oliver. 

Last but not lease, in your analytical way you stated that if you were to work for me you’d quit, correct? To accuse me of being emotional, which btw you would be correct, there are 2 things that I would like to say in response to that accusation. The first thing is that that is not intelligent but more so logical to come to that conclusion because like I said before I’m just a fan which is short for fanatical and fanatical is a good description of emotional imo. Secondly, you stated that you would quit if you were to work for me. That’s an emotional reaction without knowing or stating what I would be paying you. Decisions can and are influenced by compensation. To take it further you would have to be hired before you could quit and that is called an assumption and we all know where that word came from. 
 

In closing I must say that you gave one of the best responses that I have ever seen on this board. Thanks!

[CorkScrewHill]

18 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’ve certainly posted my share of “trade Oliver for …”, but I’m definitely not trading a contract year underperforming yet talented DT for a contract year underperforming yet talented LB. 
 

If Oliver booms, that’s of way more significance for us than if Queen came here and had a great year. 
 

Agreed .. and Ed has performed better than Queen to date