Are we more deserving of the SB hype this year than last?

[newcam2012]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is the goal, absolutely. But it isn't that or bitter disappointment. If you are only in sport for the winning a lifetime of disappointment awaits. It's the climb. You have to enjoy these years of the Bills being in contention year after year. Not count them down worrying about then they will run out. Sport fandom is supposed to be fun. 

When a team doesn't reach its realistic goals then it does becomes disappointing. Failure of a team's goals is separate than fan enjoyment. Both can be true at the same time. 

 

Questioning your team's ability to reach the top doesn't equate to worrying, not enjoying the winning, or lack of loyality. 

 

The playoff run certainly has been fun and enjoyable. It's a nice accomplishment and speaks loudly about how Beane and McD changed the Bills losing ways.

 

However, when you land arguably the top QB in the league the bar changes pretty quickly. Playoff appearances become Super Bowl expectations and appearences. That's not a "only in the sport for winning" point of view. It's a realistic and viable thought process. 

 

The bitter disappointment mostly stems from the KC 13 second debacle and the outright thrashing from the Bengals last year.

 

Perhaps, I take my Bills football too seriously...

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

On 5/3/2023 at 3:09 PM, sherpa said:

No. We will not be as hyped, and that's a good thing.

I got really tired of it after the LA Rams and Titans games.

 

Let the media talk about the Jets and Dolphins.

We should operate in the shadows.

Bills fan: “I’m glad we’re flying under the radar as an underdog … that’s the way I like it”. Same fan: “ why is the national media not talking about us? I’m soooo mad at their lack of respect”. 😂

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

When a team doesn't reach its realistic goals then it does becomes disappointing. Failure of a team's goals is separate than fan enjoyment. Both can be true at the same time. 

 

Questioning your team's ability to reach the top doesn't equate to worrying, not enjoying the winning, or lack of loyality. 

 

The playoff run certainly has been fun and enjoyable. It's a nice accomplishment and speaks loudly about how Beane and McD changed the Bills losing ways.

 

However, when you land arguably the top QB in the league the bar changes pretty quickly. Playoff appearances become Super Bowl expectations and appearences. That's not a "only in the sport for winning" point of view. It's a realistic and viable thought process. 

 

The bitter disappointment mostly stems from the KC 13 second debacle and the outright thrashing from the Bengals last year.

 

Perhaps, I take my Bills football too seriously...

 

I wasn't suggesting it called into question your loyalty. But to call any season that isn't a superbowl year a bitter disappointment suggests the only enjoyment you can get is from winning a Lombardi. I hope the Bills win the Superbowl. I think they have the potential too. But the likelihood is they won't. That is the same for all 32 teams. Only one ends the season happy. 

[philholbroo]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:02 PM, Donuts and Doritos said:

We have a harder schedule this year (away @ Philly, KC, Cincinnati & Bolts) & the division will be harder. Plus we have a change at D. Coordinator, questions at MLB & Off Coordinator. So no.

It looked like we had a very hard schedule going in to last year too and they came away with the #2 seed and possibly shouldve been #1. Away at KC and Cincy is nothing new. We'll see if they have to go to Miami in September this year or if it gets pushed to later in season. Hopefully the D change is a good thing. Questions of LB and off coordinator are major though. 

[Radar]

No. At this point it appears the division opponents have improved and schedule appears tougher. So I think it looks like it's a bit longer odds to make it.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Radar

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wasn't suggesting it called into question your loyalty. But to call any season that isn't a superbowl year a bitter disappointment suggests the only enjoyment you can get is from winning a Lombardi. I hope the Bills win the Superbowl. I think they have the potential too. But the likelihood is they won't. That is the same for all 32 teams. Only one ends the season happy. 

In a vacuum the Bills not winning a Super Bowl is correct. I'd be happy with a Super Bowl appearence at this point. 

 

However, team thinking changes when you land a franchise QB. Let's break down the top QBs in the league. Arguably it's Mahomes, Burrows, and Allen. Maybe throw in Hurts.  Pick the order if you like. 

 

Mahomes 2 rings in 6/7years.

 

Burrow Super Bowl appearence year 2.

 

Hurts Super Bowl appearence year 2. 

 

Allen hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl appearence in 5 years of playing. Top 3 QB in the NFL. Acceptable?

 

Something is wrong Gunner. Top QBs go to Super Bowls. Franchise QBs go to Super Bowls.  Thats what they do. 

 

The it's hard to do just doesn't cut it at this point. Nor should it. The wait til next year mentality falls short too. Next year turns into next year which turns into next year. Five years and counting. Some are sayongbits this year. But if not it's ok because it's hard to go to a Super Bowl. 31 teams will be disappointed. The built in excuse is ringing loudly. 

 

I guess we fans should absolutely be ecstatic with great regular season records followed by one playoff win. The thrust for more is just icing on the cake. It's hard to win. 

 

It's tough to win and 31 other teams will be disappointed. Even that is really disingenuous as 31 other teams really don't have a realistic chance of winning it all. Each year you can probably name 8 to 10 teams have a shot. It's not 32 teams. 

 

The Bills have squandered the last two years. No one knows what the following years will look like. 

 

The Bills as an organization have failed to make the leap to progress further. It seems as though the front office is in a transition. Not sure if this is good or bad. 

 

More specifically, the Bills past moves have been largely concentrated on the defensive side of the ball. No need to rehash all the moves. Their philosophy was to get pass rushers and pressure the QB. Largely ignoring and or missing on solidifying the oline and getting Allen weapons. 

 

Fast forward to this year and it's clear the front office is prioritising the offensive side of the ball. 

 

In Beane we trust...

 

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

In a vacuum the Bills not winning a Super Bowl is correct. I'd be happy with a Super Bowl appearence at this point. 

 

However, team thinking changes when you land a franchise QB. Let's break down the top QBs in the league. Arguably it's Mahomes, Burrows, and Allen. Maybe throw in Hurts.  Pick the order if you like. 

 

Mahomes 2 rings in 6/7years.

 

Burrow Super Bowl appearence year 2.

 

Hurts Super Bowl appearence year 2. 

 

Allen hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl appearence in 5 years of playing. Top 3 QB in the NFL. Acceptable?

 

Something is wrong Gunner. Top QBs go to Super Bowls. Franchise QBs go to Super Bowls.  Thats what they do. 

 

The it's hard to do just doesn't cut it at this point. Nor should it. The wait til next year mentality falls short too. Next year turns into next year which turns into next year. Five years and counting. Some are sayongbits this year. But if not it's ok because it's hard to go to a Super Bowl. 31 teams will be disappointed. The built in excuse is ringing loudly. 

 

I guess we fans should absolutely be ecstatic with great regular season records followed by one playoff win. The thrust for more is just icing on the cake. It's hard to win. 

 

It's tough to win and 31 other teams will be disappointed. Even that is really disingenuous as 31 other teams really don't have a realistic chance of winning it all. Each year you can probably name 8 to 10 teams have a shot. It's not 32 teams. 

 

The Bills have squandered the last two years. No one knows what the following years will look like. 

 

The Bills as an organization have failed to make the leap to progress further. It seems as though the front office is in a transition. Not sure if this is good or bad. 

 

More specifically, the Bills past moves have been largely concentrated on the defensive side of the ball. No need to rehash all the moves. Their philosophy was to get pass rushers and pressure the QB. Largely ignoring and or missing on solidifying the oline and getting Allen weapons. 

 

Fast forward to this year and it's clear the front office is prioritising the offensive side of the ball. 

 

In Beane we trust...

 

 

Peyton Manning took 9 years to reach a Superbowl. Drew Brees took 9 and a change of teams. Aaron Rodgers has been to 1 in his 15 years as a starter. Philip Rivers never made it. It isn't get a franchise QB, click your fingers and win a Lombardi. I don't consider the last two years squandered. Do I think they have made some mistakes they deserve criticism for? Sure. Do I think they could have coached and/or played better in some spots? Yes. But they haven't squandered two seasons. They have just failed to reach their ultimate goal.

 

As for contenders... I think there are AT LEAST six legit Superbowl candidates on the AFC side this year. There are another couple that wouldn't shock me. It's a much smaller number in the NFC, more like 2 or 3. But what is your standard for a "bitter disappointment" or a "squandered" season? Because it feels like it is anything short of winning a Superbowl. Did Philly squander it last year? They had the best roster in football. It just isn't that simple. 

 

None of which means that the ownership, coaching, quarterbacking and general performance shouldn't be scrutinised. Or that they are above or should be immune to criticism. Of all people I am not someone who believes that. It is the "anything short of a Superbowl must be considered failure" attitude I struggle with. It undervalues the work and sacrifice that goes into a season where the Bills won 14 of 18 football games. It is the same attitude that says if a team doesn't have a top 5 QB they shouldn't bothet paying a 2nd tier guy and trying to build around him they should just tear down and try and tank. It doesn't reflect the reality of sport.

 

 

 

[HaldimandBills]

11 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Come brother your optimism is a bit over the top. I'll just keep it at that. 

 

 

You can be depressed or you can be optimistic. I took my road. You appear to be taking yours. 

[GoBills808]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Peyton Manning took 9 years to reach a Superbowl. Drew Brees took 9 and a change of teams. Aaron Rodgers has been to 1 in his 15 years as a starter. Philip Rivers never made it. It isn't get a franchise QB, click your fingers and win a Lombardi. I don't consider the last two years squandered. Do I think they have made some mistakes they deserve criticism for? Sure. Do I think they could have coached and/or played better in some spots? Yes. But they haven't squandered two seasons. They have just failed to reach their ultimate goal.

 

As for contenders... I think there are AT LEAST six legit Superbowl candidates on the AFC side this year. There are another couple that wouldn't shock me. It's a much smaller number in the NFC, more like 2 or 3. But what is your standard for a "bitter disappointment" or a "squandered" season? Because it feels like it is anything short of winning a Superbowl. Did Philly squander it last year? They had the best roster in football. It just isn't that simple. 

 

None of which means that the ownership, coaching, quarterbacking and general performance shouldn't be scrutinised. Or that they are above or should be immune to criticism. Of all people I am not someone who believes that. It is the "anything short of a Superbowl must be considered failure" attitude I struggle with. It undervalues the work and sacrifice that goes into a season where the Bills won 14 of 18 football games. It is the same attitude that says if a team doesn't have a top 5 QB they shouldn't bothet paying a 2nd tier guy and trying to build around him they should just tear down and try and tank. It doesn't reflect the reality of sport.

 

 

 

Of course Philly didn't squander anything last year. Their second year HC took a mid tier second year QB  to a Super Bowl. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Of course Philly didn't squander anything last year. Their second year HC took a mid tier second year QB  to a Super Bowl. 

 

I agree.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree.

This is the guy they brought in mind you to replace the guy who they fired just a couple years after winning the Super Bowl. The Eagles can rightfully feel confident in their organization. Im not so sure that same level of confidence you appear to have in the Bills is justified.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This is the guy they brought in mind you to replace the guy who they fired just a couple years after winning the Super Bowl. The Eagles can rightfully feel confident in their organization. Im not so sure that same level of confidence you appear to have in the Bills is justified.

 

That is the mistake people keep making which is suggesting I have some huge confidence in the Bills and tell people they did everything right. I don't. 

 

EDIT: as for the Eagles I was the guy here saying Howie Roseman is the best in the business when he was roundly being blamed for "ruining" Carson Wentz. He is the best in the business.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by GunnerBill

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is the mistake people keep making which is suggesting I have some huge confidence in the Bills and tell people they did everything right. I don't. 

 

So why do you feel justified in admonishing people to just enjoy the ride when there are multiple examples of organizations who have achieved more with less in the same timeframe or shorter? 

[ndirish1978]

9 hours ago, Radar said:

No. At this point it appears the division opponents have improved and schedule appears tougher. So I think it looks like it's a bit longer odds to make it.

 

Agreed. But I can still feel positive about the team without being a SB favorite. In fact, I prefer it.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So why do you feel justified in admonishing people to just enjoy the ride when there are multiple examples of organizations who have achieved more with less in the same timeframe or shorter? 

 

Because the "it's superbowl or disaster" attitude just isn't a realistic way of approaching it. The Eagles had the best roster in football last year. They didn't win the Superbowl. 

 

Of course there are organisations who have had less than the Bills have now and won one. It is what it is. There is no perfect sciene to winning. You have to get a lot right and you have to have a bit of luck too. 

 

I am not admonishing any fan for being critical of mistakes the Bills have made. I have criticised them for plenty too. But when the analysis is no deeper than "we have Josh Allen and didn't win the Superbowl ergo season squandered." That isn't a reasonable way to look at it. There isn't only Superbowl or disaster. 

[newcam2012]

45 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Of course Philly didn't squander anything last year. Their second year HC took a mid tier second year QB  to a Super Bowl. 

And the Bills have AFC East titles and great regular season records. Why shouldn't Bills fans be happy and satisfied? 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because the "it's superbowl or disaster" attitude just isn't a realistic way of approaching it. The Eagles had the best roster in football last year. They didn't win the Superbowl. 

 

Of course there are organisations who have had less than the Bills have now and won one. It is what it is. There is no perfect sciene to winning. You have to get a lot right and you have to have a bit of luck too. 

 

I am not admonishing any fan for being critical of mistakes the Bills have made. I have criticised them for plenty too. But when the analysis is no deeper than "we have Josh Allen and didn't win the Superbowl ergo season squandered." That isn't a reasonable way to look at it. There isn't only Superbowl or disaster. 

I mean this is basically like not only prime Arsenal w Henry not winning the Premiership but missing out on top4 year after year

 

I guess the consolation prize is in every year the Bills don't win the SB is another year is another year closer to McDermott getting fired

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean this is basically like not only prime Arsenal w Henry not winning the Premiership but missing out on top4 year after year

 

I guess the consolation prize is in every year the Bills don't win the SB is another year is another year closer to McDermott getting fired

 

I mean Arsenal had the best roster. The Bills don't. But that Arsenal team probably underachieved only winning two Premier Leagues. And there is less randomness in the Premier League. 

 

It still isn't something I'd consider a bitter disappointment or a squandering. It just isn't how sport works.

20 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

And the Bills have AFC East titles and great regular season records. Why shouldn't Bills fans be happy and satisfied? 

 

I am not telling people to be satisfied. I am telling them to enjoy the ride not obsess over the destination.

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because the "it's superbowl or disaster" attitude just isn't a realistic way of approaching it. The Eagles had the best roster in football last year. They didn't win the Superbowl. 

 

Of course there are organisations who have had less than the Bills have now and won one. It is what it is. There is no perfect sciene to winning. You have to get a lot right and you have to have a bit of luck too. 

 

I am not admonishing any fan for being critical of mistakes the Bills have made. I have criticised them for plenty too. But when the analysis is no deeper than "we have Josh Allen and didn't win the Superbowl ergo season squandered." That isn't a reasonable way to look at it. There isn't only Superbowl or disaster. 

Agree but I think you are taking what I said out of context. 

 

I'm not in the win the Super Bowl or the season is a failure mindset. Frankly, I don't think many on here are. 

 

My main mode of contention is the Bills have under achieved in recent playoff apoearences. Where is the progression in the playoffs? How about playing in an AFC Championship Title game? Maybe a Super Bowl appearance? 

 

They have been out coached in the playoffs. They have not done enough to build a solid oline or provide dynamic weapons around Allen. A constant theme amoung football fans and experts criticizing the Bills for relaying too much on Allen. They absolutely blew a golden opportunity in 13 seconds, etc...

 

No organization is mistake free. I'm quite happy that the Bills are a solid organization with very good results over the past 5 years. Bills football has certainly been much more enjoyable to watch in the recent years. The buzz, hype, expectations, the playoff excitement, the locker room talk, etc...For that I'm thankful to have Beane and McD leading the way. 

 

At some point, even good to great ones deserve criticism. There comes a time when organizations have to make tough hard decisions. When that is and what to do or not  do is a much much more difficult decision. Way beyond my expertise. 

 

Now, on to strictly my opinion. My eye ball test sort of speak. One thing that really stood out to me was Beane's end of season press conference. It was the first time I've seen Beane overtly evasive, making lots of excuses like Bills cap space and other teams cap space, and talking about how players need to step up. I'm sure others will see it differently. As for me, it was a strikingly different Beane (in a negative way) than the past. 

 

I get the sense that the Bills are being caught or have been passed by other teams. If you will looking in the rear view mirror holding on and hoping. Surely others don't feel the same and I'm fine with that.

 

Hope that clarifies things for others. I'm excited about watching Bills football again. I will cheer proudly and hope for the best. Not watching the season with the mindset it's Super Bowl or bust. Progression to the next step is realistic and frankly the Bills have failed to do this for several years. That indeed leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I firmly believe the Bills should have done more, gone further, and lost opportunities that they can't get back. 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but I think you are taking what I said out of context. 

 

I'm not in the win the Super Bowl or the season is a failure mindset. Frankly, I don't think many on here are. 

 

My main mode of contention is the Bills have under achieved in recent playoff apoearences. Where is the progression in the playoffs? How about playing in an AFC Championship Title game? Maybe a Super Bowl appearance? 

 

They have been out coached in the playoffs. They have not done enough to build a solid oline or provide dynamic weapons around Allen. A constant theme amoung football fans and experts criticizing the Bills for relaying too much on Allen. They absolutely blew a golden opportunity in 13 seconds, etc...

 

No organization is mistake free. I'm quite happy that the Bills are a solid organization with very good results over the past 5 years. Bills football has certainly been much more enjoyable to watch in the recent years. The buzz, hype, expectations, the playoff excitement, the locker room talk, etc...For that I'm thankful to have Beane and McD leading the way. 

 

At some point, even good to great ones deserve criticism. There comes a time when organizations have to make tough hard decisions. When that is and what to do or not  do is a much much more difficult decision. Way beyond my expertise. 

 

Now, on to strictly my opinion. My eye ball test sort of speak. One thing that really stood out to me was Beane's end of season press conference. It was the first time I've seen Beane overtly evasive, making lots of excuses like Bills cap space and other teams cap space, and talking about how players need to step up. I'm sure others will see it differently. As for me, it was a strikingly different Beane (in a negative way) than the past. 

 

I get the sense that the Bills are being caught or have been passed by other teams. If you will looking in the rear view mirror holding on and hoping. Surely others don't feel the same and I'm fine with that.

 

Hope that clarifies things for others. I'm excited about watching Bills football again. I will cheer proudly and hope for the best. Not watching the season with the mindset it's Super Bowl or bust. Progression to the next step is realistic and frankly the Bills have failed to do this for several years. That indeed leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I firmly believe the Bills should have done more, gone further, and lost opportunities that they can't get back. 

 

 

Okay there is much less here I would take issue with a lot of this is fair. The are just two things I'd say:

 

1. Progression isn't always linear. I was saying this after 2020 as well when a lot of fans were like "AFC Championship last year, Superbowl this year." It isn't that simple. The Rams made the Superbowl, lost and missed the playoffs the next year. Their step came 2 years later. There is a lot of randomness to the NFL. 

 

2. I am not sure that I agree Beane was evasive. I think that is the wrong word. I think he was less positive than other end of year pressers. But I don't think he was evasive, he was honest about the limitations of what he could do to improve the roster.