Beane: “working on at least 2 veteran UFA’s”

[Warriorspikes51]

20 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I mean, I'm not saying it's a TOTAL impossibility that we could get him. I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely, in my opinion.

I don't see how he would sign to be a rotational rusher for us over being a Starter on any other team. It would be a bad career move that his agents would surely advise against.

 

And I just don't see a way that no team in the league isn't going to offer him one of their 2 starting spots on the Edge - something we will not offer. And even in the unlikely event that there wasn't a starting job out there for him, there are surely teams that can offer more money than we can right now.

 

Again, it's not a total impossibility. Maybe Floyd, Ingram, and Clark get scooped up by teams that need Starters first. Maybe the teams left that want him to start are so wretched that he decides he'd rather be rotational for a Contender for less money and less playing time.

 

But yeah, I think that's pretty unlikely. Yannick Ngakoue is the #1 available Free Agent in all of Football. I don't see him having to settle. Much more likely that we'd land a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap. And any of them would be an upgrade over Shaq, Epenesa, or Basham as the #3.

 

That is, if Beane is looking to sign a DE at all. Which with Von on schedule to not miss any time and us having re-signed Shaq, I'm not totally convinced he will.

we’ll see. He would be an awesome addition. 

I know it doesn’t mean much, but two of our players commented on his most recent IG post. He’s also friends with Diggs (Maryland)

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

And I just don't see a way that no team in the league isn't going to offer him one of their 2 starting spots on the Edge - something we will not offer.

 

Because a true starting edge can't be awful against the run. Every team that's tried him has eventually realized the hard way that he is a pure pass rusher. That's a great skill set to have in the modern league. But it limits the role he can play.

 

I would love to sign him and let him loose on 3rd downs and late in games. Still think there's a decent chance we do. We have a good pitch for him - "We added no edge rushers in the draft or free agency. Your competition is Boogie Basham, AJ Epenesa, and Shaq Lawson. Come platoon for Von Miller while he recovers and rack up gaudy stats against a gauntlet of top tier QBs, then go get one more big contract from another team next offseason."

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by HappyDays

[BillsFanForever19]

9 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

we’ll see. He would be an awesome addition. 

I know it doesn’t mean much, but two of our players commented on his most recent IG post. He’s also friends with Diggs (Maryland)

 

Yeah, Social Media follows, likes, and comments are meaningless. They're all friends and colleagues and are just commenting specifically on the posts their friends and colleagues make. Players don't go "we might have a chance at this guy, let me just start commenting on their stuff".

 

In this case it was Nyheim Hines, his former teammate at Indianapolis and Von Miller, whom Yannick attends the Pass Rush summit with every year.

Edited May 5, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Warriorspikes51]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Because a true starting edge can't be awful against the run. Every team that's tried him has eventually realized the hard way that he is a pure pass rusher. That's a great skill set to have in the modern league. But it limits the role he can play.

 

I would love to sign him and let him loose on 3rd downs and late in games. Still think there's a decent chance we do. We have a good pitch for him - "We added no edge rushers in the draft or free agency. Your competition is Boogie Basham, AJ Epenesa, and Shaq Lawson. Come platoon for Von Miller while he recovers and rack up gaudy stats against a gauntlet of top tier QBs, then go get one more big contract from another team next offseason."

 

you correctly called the Murray signing the night before it happened….you even stated it would happen the following day! 

 

Is Yannick a player you heard we are trying to sign? 

[HappyDays]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

you correctly called the Murray signing the night before it happened….you even stated it would happen the following day! 

 

Is Yannick a player you heard we are trying to sign? 

 

We talked to him at some point before we signed Shaq Lawson so there was some level of interest there. I don't know how serious the talks got. Any communication since then I have not been made aware of.

 

There are still a ton of veteran rotational edge rushers available. I suspect that game of musical chairs will play itself out by the conclusion of most teams' OTAs. I'll be shocked if we don't end up with one of them, not because I know anything but because it's a clear need and Beane has already done a masterful job this offseason of plugging depth holes with relatively cheap veterans.

[BillsFanForever19]

15 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

you correctly called the Murray signing the night before it happened….you even stated it would happen the following day! 

 

Is Yannick a player you heard we are trying to sign? 

 

With all due respect to @HappyDays - I don't think that was an insider tip.

 

We had Murray in very recently for a visit Pre-Draft, needed a 4th RB, didn't Draft one, and Beane said veteran moves were coming.

 

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We talked to him at some point before we signed Shaq Lawson so there was some level of interest there. I don't know how serious the talks got. Any communication since then I have not been made aware of.

 

I had heard from you or someone else that we had contacted him at some point. I was wondering if it was before or after we signed Shaq. The fact that we contacted him and then signed Shaq is another sign to me on the unlikelihood of it happening.

Edited May 5, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

With all due respect to @HappyDays - I don't think that was an insider tip.

 

It was an insider tip. I was also told Poyer's exact contract details before they were announced, and I was told that Klein would sign here the day before he did. Little things get out.

[Warriorspikes51]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It was an insider tip. I was also told Poyer's exact contract details before they were announced, and I was told that Klein would sign here the day before he did. Little things get out.

I do remember your post with what Poyer was offered! Thanks for sharing! 

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We talked to him at some point before we signed Shaq Lawson so there was some level of interest there. I don't know how serious the talks got. Any communication since then I have not been made aware of.

 

There are still a ton of veteran rotational edge rushers available. I suspect that game of musical chairs will play itself out by the conclusion of most teams' OTAs. I'll be shocked if we don't end up with one of them, not because I know anything but because it's a clear need and Beane has already done a masterful job this offseason of plugging depth holes with relatively cheap veterans.

hopefully it becomes a case where he doesn’t get offered as much as he’s looking for, we circle back, offer a little bit more than previously (like we did with Poona reportedly) and strike a deal

 

Poona is a good player, only 27 and took less $ to sign here for a chance at a ring

Edited May 5, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

The fact that we contacted him and then signed Shaq is another sign to me on the likelihood of it happening.

 

It's definitely possible we reached out to Ngakoue, found out his asking price was too high, and pivoted to Shaq instead. But I don't know, I still see a need there. I think the team should be treating Basham as an afterthought. It's scary to think of us starting the season with Rousseau and Lawson (or Epenesa?) as our starting edge duo, with a barely roster worthy player in Basham as the next man up. I find it hard to believe Beane is going to let that stand. Then again here we are in May and we still don't have a definite starting MLB so I suppose he might just be thrift shopping on defense and trusting McDermott to figure it out with what we have.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's definitely possible we reached out to Ngakoue, found out his asking price was too high, and pivoted to Shaq instead. But I don't know, I still see a need there. I think the team should be treating Basham as an afterthought. It's scary to think of us starting the season with Rousseau and Lawson (or Epenesa?) as our starting edge duo, with a barely roster worthy player in Basham as the next man up. I find it hard to believe Beane is going to let that stand. Then again here we are in May and we still don't have a definite starting MLB so I suppose he might just be thrift shopping on defense and trusting McDermott to figure it out with what we have.

RT and Edge worry me more than MLB. Somehow I think they are going to scheme the LB situation into something reasonably effective. And I suspect Von comes back relatively early and plays well, but one can't know that I suppose.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It was an insider tip. I was also told Poyer's exact contract details before they were announced, and I was told that Klein would sign here the day before he did. Little things get out.

 

Now you've gone and done it. Your DM's are about to be flooded by people asking you about DeAndre Hopkins now.

 

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's definitely possible we reached out to Ngakoue, found out his asking price was too high, and pivoted to Shaq instead. But I don't know, I still see a need there. I think the team should be treating Basham as an afterthought. It's scary to think of us starting the season with Rousseau and Lawson (or Epenesa?) as our starting edge duo, with a barely roster worthy player in Basham as the next man up. I find it hard to believe Beane is going to let that stand. Then again here we are in May and we still don't have a definite starting MLB so I suppose he might just be thrift shopping on defense and trusting McDermott to figure it out with what we have.

 

That's almost certainly what happened. And I'd find it hard to believe they chose to pay Shaq instead and then will double back and get Ngakoue too.

 

By all accounts, Von is on schedule to not miss any time or at most a game or two. And we chose to re-sign Shaq when we had all of these options available to us knowing the situation we're in. 

 

As you said, knowing the "thrifty" situation we're in and have been in, I just find it hard to believe that we'll go in on Yannick, who is considered by many to be not only the top DE Free Agent - but THE top FA available over all.

 

Not to beat a dead horse. But I truly feel if Beane is going to address the position at all, it's going to be when the musical chairs stop on the Top 8 guys and we'll get someone who will have no choice but to settle for not only a rotational role, but one at a thrift store price. 

 

Less likely to be an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark and more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap.

Edited May 5, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Warriorspikes51]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Now you've gone and done it. Your DM's are about to be flooded by people asking you about DeAndre Hopkins now.

 

 

That's almost certainly what happened. And I'd find it hard to believe they chose to pay Shaq instead and then will double back and get Ngakoue too.

 

By all accounts, Von is on schedule to not miss any time or at most a game or two. And we chose to re-sign Shaq when we had all of these options available to us knowing the situation we're in. 

 

As you said, knowing the "thrifty" situation we're in and have been in, I just find it hard to believe that we'll go in on Yannick, who is considered by many to be not only the top DE Free Agent - but THE top FA available over all.

 

Not to beat a dead horse. But I truly feel if Beane is going to address the position at all, it's going to be when the musical chairs stop on the Top 8 guys and we'll get someone who will have no choice but to settle for not only a rotational role, but one at a thrift store price. 

 

Less likely to be an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark and more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap.

Shaq is likely little more than the vet minimum deal and in no way prohibits them from adding Ngakoue if they choose to go that route

I'd guess it will depend on how much Beane/McD believe AJ and Basham can contribute
 

 

[Johnny3410]

I am looking for AJ to have a big year.  He had a quiet 6.5 sacks this year.  When he came into the league they had him drop significant weight to what he normally played at @ Iowa.  In the Embedded video he looked like he added even more weight and muscle from last year.  He was most effective at Iowa in the 270-275 pound range.  My opinion.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Johnny3410

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Just now, Johnny3410 said:

I am looking for AJ to have a big year.  He had a quiet 6.5 sacks this year.  When you came into the league they had him drop significant weight to what he normally played at Iowa.  In the Embedded video he looked like he added even more weight and muscle from last year.  He was most effective at Iowa in the 270-275 pound range.  My opinion.

Hopeful for Epenesa as well. But for me it’s more about having Miller back. Should make every other DL’s job easier. 

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's definitely possible we reached out to Ngakoue, found out his asking price was too high, and pivoted to Shaq instead. But I don't know, I still see a need there. I think the team should be treating Basham as an afterthought. It's scary to think of us starting the season with Rousseau and Lawson (or Epenesa?) as our starting edge duo, with a barely roster worthy player in Basham as the next man up. I find it hard to believe Beane is going to let that stand. Then again here we are in May and we still don't have a definite starting MLB so I suppose he might just be thrift shopping on defense and trusting McDermott to figure it out with what we have.

You think Epenesa can take the next step? He was sneakily not that bad last season (5 passes defensed and 6.5 sacks while playing 38 percent of snaps). Not saying he'll ever be great, but with more playing time he could be an 8.5-sack guy. That's not elite, but it's certainly decent production from your third best pass rusher.  

[HappyDays]

56 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You think Epenesa can take the next step? He was sneakily not that bad last season (5 passes defensed and 6.5 sacks while playing 38 percent of snaps). Not saying he'll ever be great, but with more playing time he could be an 8.5-sack guy. That's not elite, but it's certainly decent production from your third best pass rusher.  

 

At this point I think he's a poor man's Yannick Ngakoue, a rotational pass rusher only. I doubt he ever becomes more than that but it's possible he becomes a better version of that in his 4th year. And yeah for the 3rd/4th guy on the depth chart that's a fine skill set.

 

It's our primary starter opposite Rousseau that I'm worried about. We have seen Lawson thrive in his role as a rotational piece, but for a team with Super Bowl aspirations that needs to rack up wins early in the year he and Epenesa aren't good enough to play a high snap percentage IMO. They're really counting on Von Miller to get back in the mix quickly unless they add someone.

[dave mcbride]

38 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

At this point I think he's a poor man's Yannick Ngakoue, a rotational pass rusher only. I doubt he ever becomes more than that but it's possible he becomes a better version of that in his 4th year. And yeah for the 3rd/4th guy on the depth chart that's a fine skill set.

 

It's our primary starter opposite Rousseau that I'm worried about. We have seen Lawson thrive in his role as a rotational piece, but for a team with Super Bowl aspirations that needs to rack up wins early in the year he and Epenesa aren't good enough to play a high snap percentage IMO. They're really counting on Von Miller to get back in the mix quickly unless they add someone.

As I've said elsewhere, I expect Miller to be basically fine, health-wise.

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

At this point I think he's a poor man's Yannick Ngakoue, a rotational pass rusher only. I doubt he ever becomes more than that but it's possible he becomes a better version of that in his 4th year. And yeah for the 3rd/4th guy on the depth chart that's a fine skill set.

 

It's our primary starter opposite Rousseau that I'm worried about. We have seen Lawson thrive in his role as a rotational piece, but for a team with Super Bowl aspirations that needs to rack up wins early in the year he and Epenesa aren't good enough to play a high snap percentage IMO. They're really counting on Von Miller to get back in the mix quickly unless they add someone.

Problem is the numbers.  We're not keeping more than 5 DEs, especially if Von is ready for week 1(indications are definitely possible).

 

So who goes?  Boogie, AJE, Shaq?

 

I'm not sure Beane is going to move on from any younger guys, especially just year 3 for Boogie and AJE did improve enough.  They didn't sign Shaq just to cut him/not have him in their plans.

 

I still think this is thr group we roll with, unless Von hits a setback or another injury.

[ndirish1978]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

At this point I think he's a poor man's Yannick Ngakoue, a rotational pass rusher only. I doubt he ever becomes more than that but it's possible he becomes a better version of that in his 4th year. And yeah for the 3rd/4th guy on the depth chart that's a fine skill set.

 

It's our primary starter opposite Rousseau that I'm worried about. We have seen Lawson thrive in his role as a rotational piece, but for a team with Super Bowl aspirations that needs to rack up wins early in the year he and Epenesa aren't good enough to play a high snap percentage IMO. They're really counting on Von Miller to get back in the mix quickly unless they add someone.

 

Justin Houston, that's the one that I want. We really really need someone else at DE. 

[BillsFanForever19]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Shaq is likely little more than the vet minimum deal and in no way prohibits them from adding Ngakoue if they choose to go that route

I'd guess it will depend on how much Beane/McD believe AJ and Basham can contribute

 

Yes, he was. But when they were talking to Yannick, they determined they'd rather pay vet minimum for Shaq than sign Yannick. 

 

It remains to be seen what he will be paid when he does sign. But I'd bet his price tag isn't going to go down so significantly that they'd sign him on top of Shaq. Generally Beane makes his decision at a position and that's that. 

 

That's why I'm not convinced he'll even do anything else at the position. Especially given our cap situation and following signing Ford and Murray. As it is, if he signed someone, he'd have to unload Basham as we won't carry 6. I don't know that he's looking to do that with a guy he drafted in the 2nd just two years ago.

 

Question for you: you seem to be laser focused on Ngakoue. But there's a list of 8 difference makers that would be an upgrade for us.

 

As I said, I think the #1 available FA is less likely than some of the other DE's available. Is it Yannick or nothing for you?