Have we bridged the playoff gap?

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

This is going to upset people, but here are the correct preseason AFC rankings

1. Chiefs

2. Bengals

3. Bills, Ravens

 

Slightly Disagree
 

Pre-season:
 

1. Chiefs

2. Bengals

3. Bills

…….

4. Ravens, Jets

5. Dolphins

6. Jags, Chargers

[Einstein]

31 minutes ago, Dopey said:

 We lost that Jets game cuz Josh was injured.

 

Josh got injured on the second to last play of the game. It was literally the play before the hail mary. You’re blaming the loss on THAT?

 

31 minutes ago, Dopey said:

We lost to Minnesota in OT, the very first game after Josh’s injury.

 

The offense put up 30 points. You’re saying the defense was a dumpster fire, giving up nearly 500 yards, because of Allen’s elbow injury? 

 

31 minutes ago, Dopey said:

We then go on an 8 game winning streak before the loss to Cincy.

 

While barely squeeking by the likes of Detroit and Miami.

 

31 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Sucks that some people can’t enjoy a win

 

I haven’t seen this many excuses since {omitting this part since it’s not the politics forum}

[BullBuchanan]

I think we're in worse shape on paper on both sides of the ball than we were at the end of last year. As a vocal detractor of Edmunds and a believer that we needed an upgrade at WR2 and RB1, I think we're worse in all 3 spots. It seems like every player on this offense besides Allen and Diggs are role players good for a play here and there. We've brought in a plethora of people that will likely be part-time contributors in 2023 including Harty, Harris, and now Kincaid but we're still lacking top end talent.

Gabe Davis is not a #2 NFL WR and yet it looks like he's cemented in that role for another year, so now you have Knox, Shakir, Kincaid, Harty and whoever else all fighting for the same reps, not to mention Sherfield and the rookie.

In the RB room they got their goal-line back, but they decided not go get a proper 3 down player that take over games in the event conditions are poor, josh is ineffective, hurt or the game script calls for it. Cook is not built to be a 3 down between the tackles RB, but it looks liek theyre gonna make him do it anyway. Looking forward to another year of wasting Hines career.

On defense, Edmunds is gone (yay!) but his replacement appears to be a chef's choice of Dodson and Klein (WTF?). It's insane that for the second year in a row they wasted a 3rd round pick on a special teams linebacker with the build of a corner back. They were 5 picks from Trenton Simpson, who was drafted by the NFL's version of Linebacker U in Baltimore. How much could it have cost to go up and get him? a 6th? Instead, we're gonna roll with someone terrible at one of the most important positions on defense.

I don't see how we're going to be any more prepared to slow down KC or CIN with what we're bringing to the table on defense this year unless a scheme change can have a massive impact and overcome a talent deficiency.

I think we win the division again and get bounced in the first round.

[Chaos]

27 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Slightly Disagree
 

Pre-season:
 

1. Chiefs

2. Bengals

3. Bills

…….

4. Ravens, Jets

5. Dolphins

6. Jags, Chargers

Ravens with Tyler Huntley played the Bengals tougher than the Bills did last year.  Jackson is a serious upgrade from Huntley.  My rankings assume he makes it through the season healthy.  

10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Kincaid but we're still lacking top end talent.

KIncaid is top end talent. You should rephrase your sentence. Also ignoring the improvement expected from McGovern and Torrence is just silly. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Chaos

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think we're in worse shape on paper on both sides of the ball than we were at the end of last year. As a vocal detractor of Edmunds and a believer that we needed an upgrade at WR2 and RB1, I think we're worse in all 3 spots. It seems like every player on this offense besides Allen and Diggs are role players good for a play here and there. We've brought in a plethora of people that will likely be part-time contributors in 2023 including Harty, Harris, and now Kincaid but we're still lacking top end talent.

Gabe Davis is not a #2 NFL WR and yet it looks like he's cemented in that role for another year, so now you have Knox, Shakir, Kincaid, Harty and whoever else all fighting for the same reps, not to mention Sherfield and the rookie.

In the RB room they got their goal-line back, but they decided not go get a proper 3 down player that take over games in the event conditions are poor, josh is ineffective, hurt or the game script calls for it. Cook is not built to be a 3 down between the tackles RB, but it looks liek theyre gonna make him do it anyway. Looking forward to another year of wasting Hines career.

On defense, Edmunds is gone (yay!) but his replacement appears to be a chef's choice of Dodson and Klein (WTF?). It's insane that for the second year in a row they wasted a 3rd round pick on a special teams linebacker with the build of a corner back. They were 5 picks from Trenton Simpson, who was drafted by the NFL's version of Linebacker U in Baltimore. How much could it have cost to go up and get him? a 6th? Instead, we're gonna roll with someone terrible at one of the most important positions on defense.

I don't see how we're going to be any more prepared to slow down KC or CIN with what we're bringing to the table on defense this year unless a scheme change can have a massive impact and overcome a talent deficiency.

I think we win the division again and get bounced in the first round.

I couldn’t disagree more.  I literally like every Offensive position group better this year over last. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Ravens with Tyler Huntley played the Bengals tougher than the Bills did last year.  Jackson is a serious upgrade from Huntley.  My rankings assume he makes it through the season healthy.  

KIncaid is top end talent. You should rephrase your sentence. Also ignoring the improvement expected from McGovern and Torrence is just silly. 

I addressed Kincaid. He'll be a part-time player in 2023. Maybe he'll be a great player down the road, but I think expecting anything more than McKenzie level production is unrealistic next year.

As for the guards - that's truly one of the more puzzling developments. I don't see both of them playing as I expect Bates to retain his starting job as he was probably our best lineman last season. I don't see McGovern as an upgrade at all really and the rookie is a wildcard. Right tackle was a much bigger concern to me than guard and they appear to be running it back with Brown.

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I couldn’t disagree more.  I literally like every Offensive position group better this year over last. 

that's really weird but ok.

[VW82]

18 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We've brought in a plethora of people that will likely be part-time contributors in 2023 including Harty, Harris, and now Kincaid but we're still lacking top end talent.
 

I'll leave the other stuff alone for now but much of the optimism for Bills is about Kincaid. A lot of smart football people had him as a top 10-15 prospect and ahead of all the receivers. This kid screams top end talent. We improved the OL with OCT who looks like a day one starter. Offense got better.    

Edited May 1, 2023 by VW82

[MJS]

Do you think the Bills are among the leaders in playoff wins over the past few years? If so, do you think they are still not considered a successful playoff team?

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Ravens with Tyler Huntley played the Bengals tougher than the Bills did last year.  Jackson is a serious upgrade from Huntley.  My rankings assume he makes it through the season healthy.  

KIncaid is top end talent. You should rephrase your sentence. Also ignoring the improvement expected from McGovern and Torrence is just silly. 

Im just not going to base my opinions for this coming year on how we fared against the worst matchup team for us in the playoffs when we were mentally and physically beat up.  

[buffblue]

8 hours ago, SCBills said:

1) Defensive philosophy in the post-season needed to change.  Frazier out / McDermott in. 
 

2) Team needs more “dawg” in them.  Watching them last year, it felt like the only dawgs we had were Josh, Diggs and Milano.   Torrence and Williams are two draft picks, one on each side of the ball, that play with bad intentions.

 

3) Bills OL was a disaster down the stretch.  Now.. Year 2 of Kromer, full off-season for Brown, upgrade in McGovern and a massive upgrade in Torrence.  
 

4) Bills needed an answer other than Diggs and “chuck it down the field”.  They drafted the most dominant middle of the field option in the draft .. and the only guy in recent memory to get the Kelce comp.  
 

Id say we could still use an upgrade at WR2.  That could be a trade or simply Davis improving.  We also need bigger/better bodies on the DL.  Von coming back is obviously a complete game changer.  It sounds like Beane is going to bring in a DT soon.  Hopefully it’s a big body 1T, because we need someone besides Jones to keep OL off our slimmer/faster linebackers.  

Couldn't agree more with your last sentence.

 

While I was fine with letting Edmunds walk and am cautiously optimistic about our in house replacement options, I do worry about our ability to stop the run. At the moment I feel we could be easily overpowered by a physical team with a strong commitment to the ground game, a la the Bengals playoff game.

 

Other than DT I view OT depth as the biggest question mark. Let's hope Beane will address these areas before we go into the season

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, VW82 said:

I'll leave the other stuff alone for now but much of the optimism for Bills is about Kincaid. A lot of smart football people had him as a top 10-15 player and ahead of all the receivers. This kid screams top end talent. We improved the OL with OCT who looks like a day one starter. Offense got better.    

Like I said, he may be a top end talent, but it's highly, highly unlikely he'll be a top-end contributor year 1 for the reasons I stated in addition to the learning curve of being a TE in the NFL or even the WR learning curve. He's goign to have a niche role. For 2023, we would have been better served by getting a player who could have filled that role plus a full time job. Over the long haul, who knows. Maybe he becomes a stud, probably not, but maybe.

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I addressed Kincaid. He'll be a part-time player in 2023. Maybe he'll be a great player down the road, but I think expecting anything more than McKenzie level production is unrealistic next year.

As for the guards - that's truly one of the more puzzling developments. I don't see both of them playing as I expect Bates to retain his starting job as he was probably our best lineman last season. I don't see McGovern as an upgrade at all really and the rookie is a wildcard. Right tackle was a much bigger concern to me than guard and they appear to be running it back with Brown.

that's really weird but ok.

Why is it weird?

 

Healthy Allen over UCL Allen

 

I like Harris and year 2 Cook/Hines over Singletary and rookie Cook/new addition Hines.  Admittedly Im not a fan of Singletary’s wildly mediocre to slightly above average skill set. 
 

Our TE room is massively improved. 
 

Our OL is massively improved, both in starting talent (McGovern/Torrence) and depth (Bates/Edwards).  
 

*Even going by your standards we have more depth at TE and on the OL.   So unless you loved Saffold and McKenzie, how exactly are we “worse on paper”?

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by SCBills

[Maine-iac]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think we're in worse shape on paper on both sides of the ball than we were at the end of last year. As a vocal detractor of Edmunds and a believer that we needed an upgrade at WR2 and RB1, I think we're worse in all 3 spots. It seems like every player on this offense besides Allen and Diggs are role players good for a play here and there. We've brought in a plethora of people that will likely be part-time contributors in 2023 including Harty, Harris, and now Kincaid but we're still lacking top end talent.

Gabe Davis is not a #2 NFL WR and yet it looks like he's cemented in that role for another year, so now you have Knox, Shakir, Kincaid, Harty and whoever else all fighting for the same reps, not to mention Sherfield and the rookie.

In the RB room they got their goal-line back, but they decided not go get a proper 3 down player that take over games in the event conditions are poor, josh is ineffective, hurt or the game script calls for it. Cook is not built to be a 3 down between the tackles RB, but it looks liek theyre gonna make him do it anyway. Looking forward to another year of wasting Hines career.

On defense, Edmunds is gone (yay!) but his replacement appears to be a chef's choice of Dodson and Klein (WTF?). It's insane that for the second year in a row they wasted a 3rd round pick on a special teams linebacker with the build of a corner back. They were 5 picks from Trenton Simpson, who was drafted by the NFL's version of Linebacker U in Baltimore. How much could it have cost to go up and get him? a 6th? Instead, we're gonna roll with someone terrible at one of the most important positions on defense.

I don't see how we're going to be any more prepared to slow down KC or CIN with what we're bringing to the table on defense this year unless a scheme change can have a massive impact and overcome a talent deficiency.

I think we win the division again and get bounced in the first round.

When you start making playoff predictions before a game has even been played and rosters even finalized I have to think you're jumping the gun a little.

[VW82]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Like I said, he may be a top end talent, but it's highly, highly unlikely he'll be a top-end contributor year 1 for the reasons I stated in addition to the learning curve of being a TE in the NFL or even the WR learning curve. He's goign to have a niche role. For 2023, we would have been better served by getting a player who could have filled that role plus a full time job. Over the long haul, who knows. Maybe he becomes a stud, probably not, but maybe.

Totally disagree. He not only has a chance to become a big time contributor this year that gets lined up all over the place, but when drafting, especially in the 1st round, it pays to go after the guys you think will turn into pro bowlers and not just need players for the next while. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Why is it weird?

 

Healthy Allen over UCL Allen

 

I like Harris and year 2 Cook/Hines over Singletary and rookie Cook/new addition Hines.  Admittedly Im not a fan of Singletary’s wildly mediocre to slightly above average skill set. 
 

Our TE room is massively improved. 
 

Our OL is massively improved, both in starting talent (McGovern/Torrence) and depth (Bates/Edwards).  

It's weird because our starting 11 on offense likely only has 2 changes. One is Cook, and the other is one of the guards. Given that we had Cook last year and he played plenty, we're expecting a guard to be the difference unless you're of the opinion that lack of offensive depth is the reason that we haven't gotten tot he Super Bowl. I'm not of that opinion at all. I think we're missing top-end talent, and in that regard we've made no improvements.

On defense, we're also lacking top-end talent and we also made no changes to our starting 11 besides losing Edmunds. We're worse on paper, and the lack of playmakers on defense is why I think we've been stuck being a regular season champion.

[Maine-iac]

Just now, VW82 said:

Totally disagree. He not only has a chance to become a big time contributor this year that gets lined up all over the place, but when drafting, especially in the 1st round, it pays to go after the guys you think will turn into pro bowlers and not just need players for the next while. 

Let me argue the flip side of agreeing with him.  Say he does only put up McKenzie numbers  and Knox puts up the same as last year.  That would still give us 30 more catches than Knox and Morris.  If Shakir puts up McKenzie numbers (an easy feat) than overall our offense could see 30 more catches overall.  I don't see how that wouldn't be a positive for what's already a top offense both regular season and playoffs.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Totally disagree. He not only has a chance to become a big time contributor this year that gets lined up all over the place, but when drafting, especially in the 1st round, it pays to go after the guys you think will turn into pro bowlers and not just need players for the next while. 

If he does that, he'll be one of a couple of guys in the last 20 years to have done it. You're banking on winning the lottery with a guy who was not an elite level prospect despite being near the top of the class. This isn't Kyle Pitts or Vernon Davis. He's an undersized and relatively slow TE that doesn't have a TE1 skillset.

Again, maybe he's great in a few years, but I'm seeing 40 catches for 450 yards and 4 TDs as his likely 2023 output.

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

It's weird because our starting 11 on offense likely only has 2 changes. One is Cook, and the other is one of the guards. Given that we had Cook last year and he played plenty, we're expecting a guard to be the difference unless you're of the opinion that lack of offensive depth is the reason that we haven't gotten tot he Super Bowl. I'm not of that opinion at all. I think we're missing top-end talent, and in that regard we've made no improvements.

On defense, we're also lacking top-end talent and we also made no changes to our starting 11 besides losing Edmunds. We're worse on paper, and the lack of playmakers on defense is why I think we've been stuck being a regular season champion.

I don’t disagree with you on the defense.   As of today, it comes down to McDermott being better than Frazier and Von, Hyde and White regaining at least 80% of what they were pre-injury. 
 

On offense, I just think it’s insane to think we’re worse.   In my view, this is the best OL talent and skill weaponry that Allen has had since becoming a Bill. 

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Let me argue the flip side of agreeing with him.  Say he does only put up McKenzie numbers  and Knox puts up the same as last year.  That would still give us 30 more catches than Knox and Morris.  If Shakir puts up McKenzie numbers (an easy feat) than overall our offense could see 30 more catches overall.  I don't see how that wouldn't be a positive for what's already a top offense both regular season and playoffs.

You're adding extra reps that don't exist though. He's taking part of McKenzie's job and his presence puts Shakir on the bench. There's only so many catches to go around.

[Chaos]

18 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I addressed Kincaid. He'll be a part-time player in 2023. Maybe he'll be a great player down the road, but I think expecting anything more than McKenzie level production is unrealistic next year.

As for the guards - that's truly one of the more puzzling developments. I don't see both of them playing as I expect Bates to retain his starting job as he was probably our best lineman last season. I don't see McGovern as an upgrade at all really and the rookie is a wildcard. Right tackle was a much bigger concern to me than guard and they appear to be running it back with Brown.

I take great comfort in the accuracy of your track record.