Have we bridged the playoff gap?

[ganesh]

On 5/1/2023 at 1:53 PM, newcam2012 said:

Not upset at all. It's realistic. The Bills have fallen short for several years of playoff appearances. The coveted prize hasn't been close. They haven't sniffed a Super Bowl. All they have is woulda, coulda, shoulda.

 

They were 13 seconds from going to the AFC Championship game.  I am sure they definitely sniffed it only to be snuffed out !

[John from Riverside]

Have we gotten better?
 

Yes

[Royale with Cheese]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Their final 4 games were against non-playoff teams like Chicago, Carolina, Jets, Packers. That helps.

 

They finished the season winning 6 out of the last 8.  3 of those wins were against playoff teams and they beat all of them by more than 1 score.

They beat the Jaguars by 26 points, the Giants by 13 and the Vikings by 11.  Not to mention, the Packers would have made the playoffs but the Lions beat them in the season finale.  They became a good team in the 2nd half of the season.

 

You're downplaying the Lions because to try to prove your point about the Bills.  Just like you saying the Dolphins took it to us in the playoffs lol...we gave them 17 easy points and Allen was the main person responsible for it.  

[Shaw66]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:33 PM, Einstein said:

The Bills have been regular-season-good for many seasons now. But we haven’t been able to break through in the playoffs.

 

We got blown out by the Bengals in the playoffs by 17 points. Some argue that we were simply out of mental steam due to the Hamlin situation. However, we also did not look good in the limited action we saw of the first Bengals matchup (pre-Hamlin injury). The Bengals walked down the field and scored a TD, and they were walking down the field again when the injury occurred. 

 

I think we can all admit that despite our record, the second half of last season wasn’t very comfortable. We lost to the Zach Wilson led Jets. We lost to the Vikings. We barely squeaked by the Dolphins at home. We needed a heroic last second throw and catch by Allen and Diggs to beat the Lions.

 

So here is my question - Is what we’ve done this off-season been enough to bridge the gap between the Bills and Bengals/Playoff Chiefs (playoff Chiefs are different than regular season Chiefs)?

 

Added:

 

Dalton Kincaid (love this)

O’Cyrus Torrence (love this)

Connor McGovern

Taylor Rapp

Deonte Harty

Trent Sherfield

Damien Harris

Micah Hyde comes back

 

Lost:

 

Tremaine Edmunds

Isaiaah McKenzie

Roger Saffold (addition by subtraction)

Jake Kumerow 

Cole Beasley

Jamison Crowder

Devin Singletary

 

I think we did get better. Kincaid brings something to this offense we have literally never had before. Ever. 

 

We re-tooled 40% of our o-line with McGovern and Torrence, and removing Saffold is addition by subtraction by itself. I don’t have much faith in Harty and Sherfield, but I refuse to believe they’ll give us any less than Crowder and McKenzie did last season.

What’s your thoughts? 

Brainiac -

 

Two things.   One, I agree with you completely.   The Bills got better in a lot of places where getting better is important.   I like the receiving corps.  I like the running back room.   I like the upgrades at guard.   Like the addition of Rapp to back up the safeties, something that was a real weakness last season. 

 

Two, whether they've bridged the playoff gap is a different question.  That's more about coaching, having the team prepared as they head into the playoffs, and having the offensive and defensive creativity to win.  That's up to McDermott and Dorsey.   Unless they get hit badly with injuries, they have a roster that can win it all. 

[billsfan89]

16 hours ago, balln said:

The answer to this question is entirely if beane has found some absolute difference makers in this draft  And if his low key FA signings are breakout gems. 
 

so. Is Kincaid a kelce / mark andrews ?

 

can harty make some tyreke hill type big plays (I know he’s not even close to him) 

 

i firmly believe the OL squarely rests on Spencer brown developing: health. He needs to be a beast. 
 

can James Cook become a real threat as a pass catcher 

 

 

and lastly. Josh Allen has to be an mvp. He’s got to be 2021 playoff Josh. 
 

oh and coaches need better game plans. If Daboll can take that chicken shite giants roster and get them to win a playoff game. Our Super Bowl winning coaches ( we hope) should be able to get this roster to the ***** big game at a minimum 

 

The Bills have attempted to put Josh in a better situation in 2023 than they did in 2022. The O-line is much better heading into 2023 both in terms of starters and depth. The Bills are much better at guard having McGovern over Saffold and the depth is much better with Bates likely going back to the bench and Edwards and Queese also on the bench. Even if Brown struggles like he did in 2022 the O-line will still (given a reasonable amount of health) be much or at least somewhat better. But I do agree if Brown can develop into a startling caliber RT like he has flashed the potential to be then the Bills O-line could be a top 5-7 unit in the league. If Brown is more like he was in 2022 likely will grade out as a 12-17 type unit.

 

The Bills also added Kincaid to the list of targets Josh will have and replaced Mac and Kumerow with Hardy and Sheffield which could represent smaller upgrades as well. The Bills also have Hines in for the whole season who will make for a nice addition as a gadget target. 

 

I also like what the Bills have on ST better going into 2023 than 2022. Hines as a kick returner the whole season will help and Hardy is a beast PR. While the Bills ST unit was good in 2022 it might be better in 2023 given the upgrades at returner. 

 

The main concern will be the defense, while I think the defense if reasonably healthy should at worst be an average defense a lot hinges on the defense being able to be a top 5-10 unit. Edumonds is a loss that will have an impact, can Hyde and Poyer stay healthy, can Tre come back to form being longer removed from the ACL, can Von come back from injury and repeat his 2022 pre-injury production and can some of the younger D-line and secondary players develop more?

 

A lot on the defensive side of the ball can break positively and negatively. While I don't expect it all to go one way or another I do hope the Bills see more positive breaks than negative ones.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by billsfan89

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

They were 13 seconds from going to the AFC Championship game.  I am sure they definitely sniffed it only to be snuffed out !

That's really not that close. They still had to beat Cinci which was no easy task. 

 

I stand by this team hasn't even sniffed a Super Bowl appearence yet. 

[Einstein]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Moving on.

 

Good idea.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That's really not that close. They still had to beat Cinci which was no easy task. 

 

I stand by this team hasn't even sniffed a Super Bowl appearence yet. 

 

 They went 15-4 and were a final 4 team in 2020. Matter of fact they were the #3 team in the league at years end, they picked 30th the following year in the draft. That's sniffing a Super Bowl appearance.

 

 

[BigDingus]

Every year we tend to look at the additions & point out upgrades, while failing to take into account that every other team is trying to do the same thing as well.

 

The Jets had a great draft last year with rookies that instantly made huge impacts, improved dramatically with a new HC, and now this year added Aaron Rodgers.

 

The Dolphins made tons of moves last year, and we saw them also improve. They played us to the wire all 3 games, and nearly beat us at home in the playoffs with a 3rd string QB & now upgraded their DB's with their first draft pick (Cam Smith) & signing Jalen Ramsey. 

 

Who knows what we'll see from the Patriots, but at least they won't go into the season with no OC & hoping to just wing it developing a young QB.

 

And that's just our division. The Chiefs are still the boogeyman, and everyone from the Chargers to the Steelers look to have improved quite a bit. Hell, even Jacksonville could take a big step up after the year Lawrence had last season.

 

Anyway, just a reminder to not solely focus on all the good things the Bills did or didn't do. It can look great on paper, but how will it match up against all the good things everyone else did or didn't do?

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

They were 13 seconds from going to the AFC Championship game.  I am sure they definitely sniffed it only to be snuffed out !

 

The 1990 Bills were one kick away from a Super Bowl title.

 

They surely thought that a trophy was right around the corner too.

[GunnerBill]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:10 AM, Billl said:

This is the part that some here seem to struggle with.  The Bills WERE the best team in the league the first half of the season.  They were a plug and play team of veteran players.  Early in the season, that’s a huge advantage over teams like Cincinnati and Kansas City who have young rosters full of talented players who are still acclimating to the NFL.  The downside is that those veteran teams don’t get better as the season progresses.  They don’t have to gel because they already know their roles and responsibilities.  Instead, they tend to wear down as the season progresses, and they don’t bounce back quite as well as they used to.

 

The young teams do tend to get better, particularly when they’re coached well.  The game slows down for them, and the coaching staffs can install more of their game plans as the season progresses.  The younger athletes can shake off some of the bumps and bruises that their veteran counterparts can’t.  

 

This is why pointing at a week 6 game where the Bills trailed until the last minute of the game is pointless.  The Chiefs won 13 of 14 from that point on while the Bills tapered off as their players wore down.  They still went 8-3 which is very good, but the eye test told you that they weren’t the dominant team they were before the bye.  

 

I’ve got a feeling that 2023 is going to look similar in a lot of ways.  The Bills will likely look very crisp coming out of the gate, as most of the team already knows the system having played in it for several years.  The question will be how will they look 20 weeks into the season.

 

There is some truth to this and definitely there were younger teams who improved as the year went on. But equally the Bills of week 6 were not the Bills of week 18 because of injuries. Week 6 is before Josh Allen injured his throwing arm. Week 6 is before Jordan Poyer tore his knee. Week 6 is before Von Miller blew an ACL. Week 6 is before Ed Oliver was playing with his pec heavily strapped. Week 6 is before Daquan Jones was hurt. And it was also before we realised how limited Tre White was in his return. 

 

Not that every team doesn't get injuries... but the Bills had the bug all year last year, in a year where they had pushed their chips into the middle of the table. Some of that is just rotten luck. That said, it is legit to say they had much better injury luck in 2021 and were pretty healthy when they blew it in 13 seconds. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

30 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

No it isn't. They didn't even play in a AFC Conference Championship game. 

 

 In 2020? You may want to revisit that season. Apparently you missed some key details from that year. Going 2-1 in a playoff season puts you, at minimum, in the conference championship game.

 

 

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 In 2020? You may want to revisit that season. Apparently you missed some key details from that year. Going 2-1 in a playoff season puts you, at minimum, in the conference championship game.

 

 

You are correct. I stand corrected. The Chiefs were moons better than the Bills in 2020. The Bills had no real chance of beating the Chiefs in Arrowhead. The Chiefs predictably beat the Bills easily. 

 

To be honest, if memory serves me correctly, the Bills were very fortunate to beat the Colts. Rivers choked and overthrew a wide open receiver for the win. 

 

That Bills team wasn't ready to make a Super Bowl appearence. After that season, I think most Bills fans were happy with the season. 

 

Fast forward to today and ask yourself have they progressed? What did they accomplish? Have they sniffed a Super Bowl? 

 

The bar has changed and the Bills team has fallen short in the proceeding playoff appearances. There is no other way to see it.

 

Optimism is great but it's results that count. The KC and Cinci playoff losses should not be dismissed as ho hum. They are certainly eye opening. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by newcam2012

[Chandler#81]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:22 PM, Boatdrinks said:

Right? 37 wins over last 3 seasons, second only to KC’s 40. Not much to bridge there , but they do need better defensive strategy/ execution in playoff games. Offense was a no show all the way around in loss to Bengals , Josh’s worst playoff appearance to date. 

Jmo, but I think that game spelled the end of Leslie. He & Sean are close, but Sean had taken the D controls before and we had become very predictable on Defense. I expect true improvement on Defense this year. Spin it how you want, but I don’t think they ever intended to re-sign Edmunds - just couldn’t sit him. One thing for sure. The Defense will have only McDermott’s signature on it. Both he and Frazier made their bones as DCs. Sean just took his game higher with his HC opportunity. 
 

Again, my opinion alone.

[Billl]

 

 

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is some truth to this and definitely there were younger teams who improved as the year went on. But equally the Bills of week 6 were not the Bills of week 18 because of injuries. Week 6 is before Josh Allen injured his throwing arm. Week 6 is before Jordan Poyer tore his knee. Week 6 is before Von Miller blew an ACL. Week 6 is before Ed Oliver was playing with his pec heavily strapped. Week 6 is before Daquan Jones was hurt. And it was also before we realised how limited Tre White was in his return. 

 

Not that every team doesn't get injuries... but the Bills had the bug all year last year, in a year where they had pushed their chips into the middle of the table. Some of that is just rotten luck. That said, it is legit to say they had much better injury luck in 2021 and were pretty healthy when they blew it in 13 seconds. 

I'm with you on most of this.  I tend to think Josh's injury is overblown around here, but that's a different discussion.  The question becomes what version is a better representation of who the Bills will be going forward, week six versus postseason.  I think it's the latter.  I don't see guys like Von, Micah, DaQuon, and Jordan all looking like their younger selves coming off of injuries of batting degrees.  They'll still likely be effective players early on the season other than Von, but the the goal is to win in week 23.  If they are injured and/or less than 100% by the end of the season again, it's not really bad luck.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

 

I'm with you on most of this.  I tend to think Josh's injury is overblown around here, but that's a different discussion.  The question becomes what version is a better representation of who the Bills will be going forward, week six versus postseason.  I think it's the latter.  I don't see guys like Von, Micah, DaQuon, and Jordan all looking like their younger selves coming off of injuries of batting degrees.  They'll still likely be effective players early on the season other than Von, but the the goal is to win in week 23.  If they are injured and/or less than 100% by the end of the season again, it's not really bad luck.

 

If they are worn down they are worn down. But injuries like the ones the Bills had last year were nothing to do with worn down. They were bad luck. I accept some of their older guys on defense are not a lock to come back at their former level and they are banking on that.... but injuries is more often than not luck. And I was saying that when folks here a year ago were lauding the Bills amazing S&C staff and their record of avoiding injury. 

 

As for Josh's elbow. I disagree. I said the day he did it I thought he should sit with it and I basically felt like our Superbowl shot last year was gone. Because without Josh at his best this team can't win a Superbowl. I think it was a mistake for him to play. He did because the Bills were all in on the season. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If they are worn down they are worn down. But injuries like the ones the Bills had last year were nothing to do with worn down. They were bad luck. I accept some of their older guys on defense are not a lock to come back at their former level and they are banking on that.... but injuries is more often than not luck. And I was saying that when folks here a year ago were lauding the Bills amazing S&C staff and their record of avoiding injury. 

 

As for Josh's elbow. I disagree. I said the day he did it I thought he should sit with it and I basically felt like our Superbowl shot last year was gone. Because without Josh at his best this team can't win a Superbowl. I think it was a mistake for him to play. He did because the Bills were all in on the season. 

We were also in play for the first seed all year. If we were two games back or two games up on everybody, I think Josh sits.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:43 PM, Big Turk said:

The Bengals game was an aberration, IMO.

 

Bills fans

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We were also in play for the first seed all year. If we were two games back or two games up on everybody, I think Josh sits.

 

Yep. Agreed.

[Big Turk]

14 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

 

Bills fans

 

There wasn't much to learn from that game, IMO.