Bills won the draft. Change my mind

[Rebel101]

7 hours ago, DJB said:

I guess we love PFF again?!?!

Shorter will sit on the PS for 3 years until another team turns him into their top target. It’s the only bad thing I gotta say. I believe they went best value as much as they could. I’m okay with that 

[Manther]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I am with you where I expected the Bills to snag a C. There seemed to be some good ones coming in this year.

 

As for Bates, I know they seem to like him at that spot. At very worst I think Bates backs up Morse. And while I still think Morse is a solid vet player...spending what we do on him with the concussion history is risky. I could see this being Mitch 's last year in Buffalo, taking a C next year and Bates working as a bridge starter in 2024. As you say, we shall see where it goes. But I know I'm looking forward to seeing the IOL battle that's coming up. 

I can agree with all of that.  Morse is expensive, but, very good.  Hopefully he stays healthy this year and we can re evaluate the position and cap next year.  We do have options on the roster to play C.  If we pick in the 20's next year and we should, we can probably grab the best C.

[starrymessenger]

All things considered, including the draft class and draft positioning it looks to me like the Bills had a very good draft. I really like Beane thinking ahead and picking up extra picks in 2024. Something to use when we trade up for Marvin Harrison's boy next year.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's simple really........use the early portion of the draft to address premium positions.    Edge/island players are the individuals who have the opportunity to change games by themselves by virtue of their positions.   That is why they are the most expensive of players to acquire.  

 

The Lions had numerous ways to do so in round 1 and did so with neither pick.

 

Now they have Jared Goff as their long term QB solution.........a hole opposite Hutchinson at DE.........and holes at CB.    And that is NOW.   You should be addressing premium positions even when you don't have current needs there.   

 

 

One of the things that bothers me about Mike Schopp and the draft conversation is his insistence that trading down in always the right decision.

 

He contends that teams have no idea who is going to be good, so accumulate more players, more picks. (I don’t agree with that because I think Scouting is real and it matters). 
 

Of course I agree with what you’ve written above, there are key positions. 

But what Mike Schopp misses and what I think is being lost here is that the players you ultimately pick matter. They have to be good.

 

For instance, the Lions picked Jeff Okudah 3rd overall. He should have been a dominant corner. Played a premium position, huge school. But he was marginal from Day 1, then got hurt.

 

The Broncos took Bradley Chubb 4th overall. Was he good? Did he justify the pick? Another guy that got hurt and never really wants dominant.

 

Jadeveon Clowney at #1 overall, worth it?

 

Denzel Ward at 5th overall in the Chubb draft, got a second contract, how is their defense? Are they a good team? 
 

Even Myles Garrett. I was listening to 850 WKNR on Friday, #1 overall, but there are some Browns fans that think he collects a lot of empty sacks. The numbers look good, 14 sacks, but there are people who think that’s a lot of empty first quarter sacks and then he disappears the rest of the game.

 

Not saying never draft DE, WR, OT high. I agree they’re hard to find positions. 
 

But like Schopp, who you pick matters, they have to be good otherwise who cares if they play a high dollar position. 

[Beck Water]

57 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Kelce and Gronk were both guys' #1 target, even Ertz in Philly.  

 

Are we assuming the Bills are going to shift their philosophy on offense?  That's the only way you can draw these parallels.  

 

I don't think it's true that Gronk was Brady's #1 target either in NE or in Tampa.....maybe 1 year when I think his top receivers were injured.  It was always Welker, then Edelman and Cooks.

 

Kelce has been KC's #1 target all but 1 year that Mahomes has played

 

Ertz was not the top target during the Eagles SB run, not until the two years after when Carson Wentz went after him like a bar stalker chasing Megan Trainor and the Eagles offense suffered for it.

 

What these guys were, was the pressure valve, the guy who was always finding the seams in zone or beating man to give the QB a safe throw to move the chains.  The big question to me isn't whether the Bills "shift their philosophy on offense".  I think that's a "no, and yes" question.  No, in that Diggs will still be the #1 receiver and they will still be cultivating vertical threats downfield, but trying to re-gain trust in those the middle of the field chain-movers Josh and Beasley did in their sleep.

Yes, in that they'll be doing it technically in a 12 set, but it will really be a 11 set with Kincaid as a "big slot".

 

 

[Manther]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's simple really........use the early portion of the draft to address premium positions.    Edge/island players are the individuals who have the opportunity to change games by themselves by virtue of their positions.   That is why they are the most expensive of players to acquire.  

 

The Lions had numerous ways to do so in round 1 and did so with neither pick.

 

Now they have Jared Goff as their long term QB solution.........a hole opposite Hutchinson at DE.........and holes at CB.    And that is NOW.   You should be addressing premium positions even when you don't have current needs there.   

 

 

Well said and agreed.  However it could work out for Detroit.  If it does work out for Detroit it doesn't mean that they didn't miss on opportunities or it could not have been better.  

 

Regarding the Lions HC Campbell, I thought he would fail and he has not.  So, maybe he keeps on trucking.

23 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

One of the things that bothers me about Mike Schopp and the draft conversation is his insistence that trading down in always the right decision.

 

He contends that teams have no idea who is going to be good, so accumulate more players, more picks. (I don’t agree with that because I think Scouting is real and it matters). 
 

Of course I agree with what you’ve written above, there are key positions. 

But what Mike Schopp misses and what I think is being lost here is that the players you ultimately pick matter. They have to be good.

 

For instance, the Lions picked Jeff Okudah 3rd overall. He should have been a dominant corner. Played a premium position, huge school. But he was marginal from Day 1, then got hurt.

 

The Broncos took Bradley Chubb 4th overall. Was he good? Did he justify the pick? Another guy that got hurt and never really wants dominant.

 

Jadeveon Clowney at #1 overall, worth it?

 

Denzel Ward at 5th overall in the Chubb draft, got a second contract, how is their defense? Are they a good team? 
 

Even Myles Garrett. I was listening to 850 WKNR on Friday, #1 overall, but there are some Browns fans that think he collects a lot of empty sacks. The numbers look good, 14 sacks, but there are people who think that’s a lot of empty first quarter sacks and then he disappears the rest of the game.

 

Not saying never draft DE, WR, OT high. I agree they’re hard to find positions. 
 

But like Schopp, who you pick matters, they have to be good otherwise who cares if they play a high dollar position. 

Also agree with this.  You need to hit on your picks.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Manther said:

Regarding the Lions HC Campbell, I thought he would fail and he has not.  So, maybe he keeps on trucking.

 

He nailed his second pick as offensive coordinator with Ben Johnson.   Johnson was the most effective OC in the NFL last year relative to the talent on hand.  I suspect that if/when Ben Johnson leaves for a HC job the meaty head of Dan Campbell will be on the chopping block very soon after.  

[Success]

Beane was laser-focused on helping Josh Allen.  Protecting him, giving him more time, establishing a running game,  and adding to the # of legit weapons he has.

 

That's what you do when you have an elite QB.  

 

We're in such good hands w/ Beane.  He's not a superior drafter, but he's a good one, and he has built Buffalo into a top contender, year after year.  He nailed it this offseason, 100%

 

 

 

[vincec]

8 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

Basically the impression I got too. I understand looking for depth and ST on day 3, but the Williams pick seemed too soon for me. Even so, if the top two picks turn into solid starters it would still be a decent draft, IMO.

Edited April 30, 2023 by vincec

[Chaos]

Any team that did not have a franchise QB who found one in this draft "won the draft".  Same reason the Bills are the clear draft winner from the year Allen was taken.  Chiefs won the Super Bowl, they have no actual room for improved outcomes.  I think Bengals had a very good draft. Whether or not thier draft allows them to keep the Bills in the rear view mirror, or to pass the Chiefs won't be known until the playoffs.  The Raven's had a good draft too. They were one fluke play away from beating the Bengals team that dominated the Bills last year.  They upgrade Huntley to Jackson, added OBJ and a new OC.    I am very happy with the Bills draft, but I would have been happier with the Eagles draft. 

[mannc]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's simple really........use the early portion of the draft to address premium positions.    Edge/island players are the individuals who have the opportunity to change games by themselves by virtue of their positions.   That is why they are the most expensive of players to acquire.  

 

The Lions had numerous ways to do so in round 1 and did so with neither pick.

 

Now they have Jared Goff as their long term QB solution.........a hole opposite Hutchinson at DE.........and holes at CB.    And that is NOW.   You should be addressing premium positions even when you don't have current needs there.   

 

 

Yeah, the Lions had a horrific draft, especially with all the ammunition they had to work with.  The Gibbs trade alone was a firing-offense.

[1st&ten]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree. No substitute for playing, but the closest thing to starting is studying the backup spot for 3 or 4 years in the same offense, and starting some at guard.  Whether he has the talent is the question.  

I agree, but I have a suspicion that the Bills are planning on someone besides Bates for their future center.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

44 minutes ago, vincec said:

Basically the impression I got too. I understand looking for depth and ST on day 3, but the Williams pick seemed too soon for me. Even so, if the top two picks turn into solid starters it would still be a decent draft, IMO.

Thanks Vince, that’s exactly where I stand on Kincaid and Torrence.

 

High-end Offensive talent. Happy the Bills showed that willingness to go offense over defense. 

[TC in St. Louis]

I spent hours and hours getting ready to watch this draft.  To watch.  Not to pick.  The Bills probably spend hours and hours studying every player they put on their board.  That's why they chose this group of players.  

 

If I were in charge of this draft, I'm not sure any of our picks would be on the team.  I never heard of 3 of them.  Or, if I had they didn't make my cut.

 

What do I know?  Nothing.

 

Well, our team has won a lot of games lately, after 17 years of not winning many games.  The people in charge now are responsible for that.  Therefore, I'm going to go out on a limb and like this draft.

[ProcessTruster]

Low quality draft class all around.   no one getting better right away in the NFL from this class.

 

Move on. 

 

Go Bills.

Edited April 30, 2023 by ProcessTruster

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Success said:

Beane was laser-focused on helping Josh Allen.  Protecting him, giving him more time, establishing a running game,  and adding to the # of legit weapons he has.

 

That's what you do when you have an elite QB.  

 

We're in such good hands w/ Beane.  He's not a superior drafter, but he's a good one, and he has built Buffalo into a top contender, year after year.  He nailed it this offseason, 100%

 

 

 

Some aspect of the Bills continues to prevent them from being a championship caliber team.  I am 100% confident we have a championship caliber QB.  To me nothing else is certain. 

[DJB]

5 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Well, other than graded 5 teams with an A+ grade, higher than Buffalo:

 

 

Damn you with your sensible reasoning!?!?!?

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

I liked AT Perry.  Every time I watched Wake play, he dominated. 
 

That being said, he’s a tall wiry guy, not sure if he plays ST’s and has drops/physicality issues. 
 

Shorter is a freak specimen, plays ST’s, had good hands and wins jump balls. 
 

Two very different WR’s.  Bills don’t have a guy like Shorter on the roster. 
 

Perry, imo, is a safe bet to stick around as an end of the roster WR… perhaps with a WR 2/3 ceiling. 
 

Shorter could eventually be a WR1 in the Tee Higgins mold.   He could also be out of the league in a year or two.  
 

 

One thing I've heard about Shorter, and you can see it in his interviews with Bills media, is that he really fits the type of personality this regime likes. Crazy work ethic, hellbent on being a great player, loves the game. He'll take screenshots of negative comments he reads about himself and make that his phone's lock screen so it's the first thing he sees every day. It might not actually amount to anything but we know this regime loves taking physical specimens with that kind of football character. For a 5th round pick we get a former 5 star recruit that will give his opportunity everything he's got. It's a worthy swing at that point in the draft.

[Shaw66]

40 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

I agree, but I have a suspicion that the Bills are planning on someone besides Bates for their future center.

I would think so, too, but the Bills value players of a different style.   Bates is a classic wrestler - lean, tough athlete.  McD likes those guys.   So, it will be interesting to watch. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Yeah, the Lions had a horrific draft, especially with all the ammunition they had to work with.  The Gibbs trade alone was a firing-offense.

What would have been a better draft?

 

Lions original picks were:

 

R1- 6th

Who was available: Tyree Wilson, Paris Johnson Jr, Jalen Carter, Darnell Wright, Peter Skrownski

 

R1-18th

Kancey, Jaxson Smith-Ngijba or any of the Wide Receivers, Banks

 

R2-17th

Mauch, Benton, Cam Smith, Gervon Dexter

 

R2-24th

Rashee Rice, Stevenson, John Michael-Schmitz, O’Cyrus Torrence, DJ Turner