Bills won the draft. Change my mind

[Success]

We got better - without doubt, especially w/ the FA additions.

 

Kincaid will be a star, and Torrence will fundamentally change our line (imo).  Williams is our most "controversial" pick, but I've seen a few pundits out there saying he can step in and start right away. We'll have to see on that pick, but I love the skillset.

 

And we could have some late-round gems.  Shorter was a 5-star, and we simply don't have a WR like him.  Just a big dude who might be a great red zone guy.  Broeker could legit make the roster.

 

I loved this draft.  I feel like we're as good as anybody in the AFC.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Success

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the Bills punted on the draft starting with the Dorian Williams pick in the 3rd.

 

The concept of value just went out the window.

 

Honestly after Torrence they should have just traded all the rest of their picks for next years Draft. 
 

If Kincaid turns out to be a HOFer the class is good, but otherwise I think they got next to nothing.

 

Browns had a good draft, I still like what the Lions did, Steelers of course had a nice draft. 

 

Bengals not getting any of the elite TEs, WRs or OTs made me happy. 

Welp, actually following pro football, I have to disagree. This is the 3X defending AFC East Champion, who are consequently forced to Draft late in every round they have a pick. Nonetheless, we drafted 2 day 1 Offensive starters on one of -if not the most exciting Offenses in the League. I’d encourage you to name another similar team of late who can match this, but you’re a self-described hucklebuck, so I’ll refrain. Even with the teams’ lofty standing, their greatest weakness last season was their RedZone attack where turnovers and unfinished Drives required immediate attention. Adding a highbred TE and a stud, tall, powerful WR along with a powerful OG is more than a doctor could prescribe for what ails this unit. Entering the draft process with just 6 picks and losing one immediately in Rd. 1, was quickly remedied through multiple trades that returned the lost pic and created 9 picks for next season along with a likely comp pick. We reinforced our OL depth in addition to a starting OG and added a ST menace. As for Williams, there’s a lot of traits with him that inspire a strong look at. Assuredly, the jury is still out. 
But, Hey! Thanks for playing!😄👍

Edited April 30, 2023 by Chandler#81

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

You could say the exact same thing for tight ends.

 

Absolutely correct.  However:

 

1. That doesn't make the Lions decision any better.

 

2. TE is a position that has mattered a great deal for many SB winning teams over that period.  RB is not.  Regardless of where they were drafted.

 

6 of the last 9 SB winners have featured a HOF level starting TE.  And that doesn't count Zach Ertz.......who was a star for the Philadelphia team that beat NE and in the middle of a 5 year stretch where he averaged 86 receptions per season.

[Eastport bills]

The first 3 picks addressed needs and qualified as arguably best talent at positions. The problem is that by classifying Williams as an OLB, that means we spent the entire offseason whiffing at replacing our best player/signal caller on defense. Now we have to either dip into available ILBs for big money or roll into the season with the subpar group(Klein,Spector, Dodson, Bernard) competition. That qualifies as a job that’s unfinished. The draft usually finishes roster building, so no, the Bills didn’t win the draft.

[ColoradoBills]

32 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

For my money, Bates is almost as much of a roster lock as can be due to his versatility. Beane even talked 2 days ago about how in addition to the IOL flex, Bates can get you out of a game at tackle if need be. His cap hit isn't unreasonable. 

 

My own thoughts are Bates is a valuable back up and may even start the season at RG before Torrence eventually takes over. Next year Bates makes for an ideal bridge C while a rookie is drafted. 

 

As far as Josh's input...he gave input into Beasley and Brown coming back last year. He (I'm sure) had input into Tanner Gentry eating up a PS squad spot all these years. I could even see Hollister being someone Josh spoke up for. And we know Josh was instrumental in bringing Matt Barkley back. Luckily, he a better QB than GM 😂.Of course he'll go to bat for Morse and want him kept...but I'm hoping Beane calls the ball on this one..lol

 

I guess I'm saying IF Bates is in the plans to play Center (in any capacity other than backup) it would behoove the team to get him more

snaps at the position.  He has played a lot less games/snaps at the position than fans think.

[Yantha]

I like PFF.

 

There I said it.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Everyone passed on those guys.  It was a crap draft 

Most IPAs are. 🍺

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Hard to win the draft with only 5 picks.

 

Beane traded down for 6 total picks so that he wouldn't have been the only GM in Bills' history to have only 5 picks.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Probably the worst I’ve felt after a draft since we drafted Josh Allen. 2018 draft was a major disappointment the day after the draft.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Matt_In_NH]

Pff is a random number generator

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Eagles destroyed that draft.  If they aren’t first, the whole article is wrong

 

They got an A+ 
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1652457242631733251/photo/1

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I hear what you're saying, but I think it misses the point, which is that the Bills are a good team, and it's difficult for anyone other than the top picks to actually make the team.   When you're mediocre, like the Bills were several years ago, it's much more likely that you're going to find a Milano in the draft, because (1) you're drafting higher in each round, and (2) you have needs.   So, a Milano then gets on the field right away and gets to grow.  A fifth rounder now has a much higher hurdle to get over to get on the field.  If you can't see the field, you're development is limited.   Milano got to play, and Edmunds got to play.  One developed, one didn't.   So, there's that.  

 

Not sure that's really fair between Edmunds and Milano though.  MIlano only came to be top-end the past two years, at the age of 27/28, and in his 5th & 6th seasons.  Edmunds came on too in his 5th this past season, but at the age of 24.  He's barely into his prime.  That's the problem with drafting players that are 20.  He was the youngest player in the league in his rookie season.  

 

I think we'll see a much better Edmunds in Chicago this season.  IMO they should have found a way to keep him, particularly since they just drafted over Knox whom they just extended at high cost.  I'm actually wondering if Beane is going to try to trade Knox now.  

 

Quote

So, yeah, I wasn't completely happy with Beane's focus in this draft, but I'm not sure it's fair.   Beane does everything for a reason.  

 

Unfortunately those reasons have rarely panned out the way he intended.  

 

 

2 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

A good draft in my opinion, but too early to call it an A and not the best one in the NFL.   The first two picks were nailed with receiving help for Josh Allen in Kincaid and an instant upgrade of the interior line in Torrance.    The latter part addressed position needs, but whether or not these people can contribute will remain to be seen.     I do not think that Dorian Williams is a bad pick like many others do, but can understand the concern of others that we might have added another Terrell Bernard.    Shorter is a complete boom or bust pick, but most likely needs a couple years of development before they add to the team.    I don't know anything about Broeker and Austin, but no one in the 7th round is a reach(as some others were saying).     They are competition for depth as late round picks are expected to be.

 

After the draft, linebacker is the biggest question mark.     Can Bernard or Williams replace the production of Edmunds?  We won't know until the time comes.    The offense is now significantly better which is what many of us wanted.    That to me is a big success.     There have been a lot of misses in the last three years, I am hoping that this trend changes with the draft.   We will see what happens.  

 

It took both Milano and Edmunds four seasons to develop.  Beane doesn't have four seasons to wait, especially if Kincaid doesn't turn into an immediate impact player.  

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

45 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Absolutely correct.  However:

 

1. That doesn't make the Lions decision any better.

 

2. TE is a position that has mattered a great deal for many SB winning teams over that period.  RB is not.  Regardless of where they were drafted.

 

6 of the last 9 SB winners have featured a HOF level starting TE.  And that doesn't count Zach Ertz.......who was a star for the Philadelphia team that beat NE and in the middle of a 5 year stretch where he averaged 86 receptions per season.

 

A bit misleading when all 6 of those are Mahomes and Brady led teams.

 

 

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the Bills punted on the draft starting with the Dorian Williams pick in the 3rd.

 

The concept of value just went out the window.

 

Honestly after Torrence they should have just traded all the rest of their picks for next years Draft. 
 

If Kincaid turns out to be a HOFer the class is good, but otherwise I think they got next to nothing.

 

Browns had a good draft, I still like what the Lions did, Steelers of course had a nice draft. 

 

Bengals not getting any of the elite TEs, WRs or OTs made me happy. 

 

Lions wasted the 12th pick on an RB they could have traded down at least 10 spots for and picked up another valuable pick for and still drafted him if they wanted.

 

Then they overdrafted Campbell where they could have done the same thing.

 

They severely mismanaged their assets meaning they had the chance to get a couple of 3rd round picks at least in addition to those players most likely and didn't.

[Dr. Who]

It's hard to win the draft when you are picking back end of the round, only have six picks, and trade the fourth rounder to move up in the first. You can always point to teams with multiple firsts or who pick early. Those who like the Philly draft, well, I'm a Bulldogs fan, so I'm not going to argue, I think they had a fine draft, but there actually are some question marks on Jalen Carter and Nolan Smith, so those selections have some gamble in them. On balance, I believe the Bills' draft is quite good. This draft was not a great talent pool, so one should judge Beane's actions in that context. Moving up to secure an offensive weapon and surely the last or one of the last genuine first rounders on the board was not a ridiculous move. Those who are exasperated as far as I can tell almost always did not like the Kincaid pick. If you don't like the pick, you're going to be annoyed by paying to move up. If you did like Kincaid, you're more than likely okay with the price to make sure he did not end up a Cowboy or a Chief or one of the other teams that were reportedly interested in trading up to get him. On Kincaid, I keep reading a lot of cantankerous fellows complaining about TE draft value. I am wondering how many of them were in a bad mood because Jack Campbell was off the board. Regardless, Kincaid is an offensive weapon. He's not Knox's replacement. Knox will continue to be a fine TE1 who had to provide blocking help too often last year to the detriment of offensive opportunties. Kincaid is a big slot, middle of the field offensive threat who can stretch the field and automatically makes the RZ attack harder to predict.

 

Williams is a MLB. They are afraid to say it. They don't want to put too much pressure on a rookie. He may need a year to learn the system. He may not be ready to qb the defense right out of the gate. But that is where he is ultimately projected. There were receivers I liked better than Justin Shorter available, but he's the big Wr they needed to add to the room. We're going to confuse the hell out of folks when we trot out Harty and Shorter and shorter is the tall one. (Shorter, of course, may well be a practice squad guy, but I wasn't going to waste a good joke.) Broeker is great value in the seventh and I can see him making the team. O'Cyrus and the Kent Hull award winner add absolutely needed snarl to the interior of the line. Torrence fell because he is limited to guard only, but he is tremendous value at 59 and should be an anchor on the line for ten years. With the new numbers through the draft and free agency at IOL, the weakness in the middle should be improved, maybe considerably. Now if only they had found a way to bring in genuine competition for Brown. 

 

Folks who come away this early thinking this draft is a fail have an agenda, were too fixated on the defense and particularly on MLB, or they are not properly gauging the value of Kincaid. If you doubt Dorsey as an OC and believe he is not up to the job, that's not on the players. The league favors offense. This was a year to build a fortress around Josh and add weapons. Within the constraints of the possible, Beane did a very solid job, grabbing one of the elite playmakers who just happens to be called TE by convention, one of the top offensive linemen, a LB with speed, instincts, and MLB potential, a flier on a WR with untapped potential and elite traits, two seventh rounders who have a legitimate chance to compete for a spot, whilst stocking next year's draft. Adding picks for next year when the draft is supposed to be better is prudent, whilst also giving Beane more ammo to maneuver. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Dr. Who

[JGMcD2]

29 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

A bit misleading when all 6 of those are Mahomes and Brady led teams.

 

 

Mahomes and Brady didn’t benefit from Kelce and Gronkowski? 

[chongli]

10 hours ago, DJB said:

I guess we love PFF again?!?!

 

Well, other than they graded 5 teams with an A+ grade, higher than Buffalo:

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by chongli

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You lost it at "I still like what the Lions did".

 

There hasn't been a 1st round selected RB that has lived up to the hype for the team that drafted him since Adrian Peterson in 2007.

 

Lions got 4 starters right of the gate and correctly moved off DeAndre Swift who was always hurt.

 

Gibbs becomes what Swift was supposed to be.

 

Day one starter at MLB

 

Day one starter at TE (and you could argue who was better LaPorta or Mayer).

 

Day one starter and best Safety in the class

 

Upside developmental QB in Hooker

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

The first 3 picks addressed needs and qualified as arguably best talent at positions. The problem is that by classifying Williams as an OLB, that means we spent the entire offseason whiffing at replacing our best player/signal caller on defense. Now we have to either dip into available ILBs for big money or roll into the season with the subpar group(Klein,Spector, Dodson, Bernard) competition. That qualifies as a job that’s unfinished. The draft usually finishes roster building, so no, the Bills didn’t win the draft.

You’re not allowed to say that Eastport.

 

The answer is Dorian Williams was highly sought after, as was Bernard and Dodson will be a revelation at MLB.

 

Beane hears the MLB chatter, he acknowledged in his press conference. 
 

They don’t always get it right though- see Hines on November 1st, and Hines now. 11 offensive touches after the trade, when Beane was at the podium saying he’s a weapon - slot, out of the backfield, etc. None of that happened. 
 

The Bills are a great team, so they get the benefit of the doubt. 

[Rockinon]

I was thinking the defense may take a step back. And thinking that a TE is going to struggle in this offense. It seems clear though that the coaches and management are re-imagining what they want to do both on defense and offense. Getting the feeling that there are going to be some pretty big changes in the way plays are designed on both sides of the ball. Less nickel defense and more blitzes from others beside the front 4. On offense, it is clear the plan is to dominate the line of scrimmage. To throw to bigger targets. Not sure what else they have in mind, but I'm certain it will be different from what we are used to. This draft just confirms that the game plan is changing.