First Glance...Which Team Drafted Great!

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Even if Gibbs turns out good, the position isn't valuable. You could get 85% of the production with a dude in the 5th round, not a position you spend a top 15 pick on

then you get into the terrible value for 5th year options. Second contract issues. 
 

and most importantly the fact that you are not saving any money on the rookie contract. 
 

Good but not even great WR pick or good pass rusher or tackle or? Saves the lions 100M they can spend on free agents. Rb pick? Has to be pretty good to break even and a beast to show even minimal value.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by NoSaint

[Einstein]

As for Houston, I have zero faith in Stroud so i’m not as big of a fan of their draft.

 

In fact, if I was Houston I would have taken Richardson. Higher bust potential, but also HOF ceiling.

[papazoid]

phi

pit

buf

nyg

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am just gonna say it...I don't care about what draft slot a player was taken, that is only something fans and media care about, not front offices or coaches.  Once the draft is over, what you do on the field is all that matters.  There is one team that has gotten low marks whose draft I think is being grossly undervalued, and that is the Detroit Lions.   I said all this after day 2, and still feel the same way now.  

 

They are getting low marks mostly over something as trivial as "draft slot" mainly because of Gibbs going at 12 and some feel Campbell was a reach at 18 (I don't).  But literally, draft slot grading is absolutely the worst and least accurate way to grade a draft.  When you remove that and look at who they landed, how they fit into their team, and the impact it could have on this franchise, then I really like this draft.  

 

In the first 5 picks...the Lions added:  Top LB, Top S, 2nd best RB, 2nd best receiving TE, and a QB with upside.  4 of them are sure fire contributors this year, including 3 starters.  

 

RB - Gibbs - 2nd best RB in the draft with immense upside being added to an already high scoring offense.  Probably splits time early on, but could push to start as the season wears on, especially if they trade Swift as it sounds like that could happen.  Even last year, Swift seemed to give way to Jamaal as the lead back at times.  I think Swift has somewhat fallen out of favor there, maybe over durability, and probably gets moved.  

 

LB - Campbell - This is a Dan Campbell kind of guy and was the best LB in the draft.  Day 1 starter on a team that really needed a LB.  

 

TE - LaPorta - Easily the 2nd best offensive weapon at TE in the draft and instant starter.  Adding him and Gibbs into an already high octane offense should insure they are among the top offenses in the league again.

 

S - Branch - arguably the best Safety in the draft and a major need for them who should again be a day 1 starter.

 

QB - Hooker - Top of the 2nd tier QB class of this draft, who has starter level potential to develop as a quality backup, someone to push Goff down the road, or develop into a trade asset.  Either way, great value where they got him compared to where most thought he might go (late first or 2nd).  

 

Time will tell if those players succeed or not in the NFL, but looking at the Lions roster, I have to say this feels like a strong draft for them today.   

 

 

 

They traded a franchise QB who then guided the other team to a SB for the right to have a ton of extra draft capital.    And came out of it with a RB and a MLB in round 1?   When they have holes at many premium positions.   Their running game was fine.  People who think Hendon Hooker is going to be a franchise QB also probably thought Mason Rudolph was too.   Yeah it was a poor use of draft capital.   

[BBFL]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Shocked at the number of posters saying the Lions had a great draft.

 

The Eagles absolutely crushed the draft. Jets had an odd draft too.

 

Loved the Bills first two picks. Extremely happy they didn’t take a tiny WR.

 

 

Branch, Hooker and Campbell are all pretty good picks who I think play well for them down the road. Draft is whether the selections you make contribute well for your team, irrespective of where they were drafted. 

[NoSaint]

47 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am just gonna say it...I don't care about what draft slot a player was taken, that is only something fans and media care about, not front offices or coaches.  Once the draft is over, what you do on the field is all that matters.  There is one team that has gotten low marks whose draft I think is being grossly undervalued, and that is the Detroit Lions.   I said all this after day 2, and still feel the same way now.  

 

They are getting low marks mostly over something as trivial as "draft slot" mainly because of Gibbs going at 12 and some feel Campbell was a reach at 18 (I don't).  But literally, draft slot grading is absolutely the worst and least accurate way to grade a draft.  When you remove that and look at who they landed, how they fit into their team, and the impact it could have on this franchise, then I really like this draft.  

 

In the first 5 picks...the Lions added:  Top LB, Top S, 2nd best RB, 2nd best receiving TE, and a QB with upside.  4 of them are sure fire contributors this year, including 3 starters.  

 

RB - Gibbs - 2nd best RB in the draft with immense upside being added to an already high scoring offense.  Probably splits time early on, but could push to start as the season wears on, especially if they trade Swift as it sounds like that could happen.  Even last year, Swift seemed to give way to Jamaal as the lead back at times.  I think Swift has somewhat fallen out of favor there, maybe over durability, and probably gets moved.  

 

LB - Campbell - This is a Dan Campbell kind of guy and was the best LB in the draft.  Day 1 starter on a team that really needed a LB.  

 

TE - LaPorta - Easily the 2nd best offensive weapon at TE in the draft and instant starter.  Adding him and Gibbs into an already high octane offense should insure they are among the top offenses in the league again.

 

S - Branch - arguably the best Safety in the draft and a major need for them who should again be a day 1 starter.

 

QB - Hooker - Top of the 2nd tier QB class of this draft, who has starter level potential to develop as a quality backup, someone to push Goff down the road, or develop into a trade asset.  Either way, great value where they got him compared to where most thought he might go (late first or 2nd).  

 

Time will tell if those players succeed or not in the NFL, but looking at the Lions roster, I have to say this feels like a strong draft for them today.   

counter: 

 

had a viable run game, instead took a back. Ignoring overdrafting the slot, it’s a cash issue. You hit on a back you get a modest value. You hit on a premiere position you save 100m on a rookie contract potentially. That matters, alpha. 
 

campbell, fine-ish in a vacuum. Not great, not as horrific as running back, akin to taking a guard instead of a tackle in the top 20. Giving away some value but not needing to be a hall of fame player to justify the finances. 
 

traded hock after going through his development and he entered his prime only draft his store brand replacement with the pick. Fail. 
 

branch - fine pick. Good safety at the top of the second is fine. Though another second tier position. 

 

hooker- if he hits, sure changes the conversation but quite the long shot. 
 

it’s easy to collect top second tier position players when you have massive draft capital. You need game changers at premiere positions in a draft position like they had. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by NoSaint

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

They traded a franchise QB who then guided the other team to a SB for the right to have a ton of extra draft capital.    And came out of it with a RB and a MLB in round 1?   When they have holes at many premium positions.   Their running game was fine.  People who think Hendon Hooker is going to be a franchise QB also probably thought Mason Rudolph was too.   Yeah it was a poor use of draft capital.   

 

I said Hooker has potential as a backup, potential to push Goff, or potential trade value if he shows any promise if Goff locks the job down.  Did not say he is gonna for sure be a franchise QB lmao

 

And stop with the whole Stafford thing.  Lions were going nowhere with Stafford, lets not pretend they gave up a Super Bowl by trading him.  He went to a Super Bowl ready team, the Lions were nowhere near that lol.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[BBFL]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I said Hooker has potential as a backup, potential to push Goff, or potential trade value if he shows any promise if Goff locks the job down.  Did not say he is gonna for sure be a franchise QB lmao

 

And stop with the whole Stafford thing.  Lions were going nowhere with Stafford, lets not pretend they gave up a Super Bowl by trading him.  He went to a Super Bowl ready team, the Lions were nowhere near that lol.  

Every year there’s literally hundreds of candidates that are projected to produce for their drafted team and wrongly so. It’s all perspective I guess to some the Lions were successful and to others they weren’t. That’s the beauty of everything that can accompany existence; the diversification 

 

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

They traded a franchise QB who then guided the other team to a SB for the right to have a ton of extra draft capital.    And came out of it with a RB and a MLB in round 1?   When they have holes at many premium positions.   Their running game was fine.  People who think Hendon Hooker is going to be a franchise QB also probably thought Mason Rudolph was too.   Yeah it was a poor use of draft capital.   

Poor use of draft capital, to me, is trading future high picks to draft a questionable or unsuccessful talent at QB.  Realistically that, again to me, in terms of team building is the only thing you trade future high picks for; unless you are legitimately fresh off a SB or conference loss and are at most - two players away from what you believe would get you all the way. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by BBFL

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

counter: 

 

had a viable run game, instead took a back. Ignoring overdrafting the slot, it’s a cash issue. You hit on a back you get a modest value. You hit on a premiere position you save 100m on a rookie contract potentially. That matters, alpha. 
 

campbell, fine-ish in a vacuum. Not great, not as horrific as running back, akin to taking a guard instead of a tackle in the top 20. Giving away some value but not needing to be a hall of fame player to justify the finances. 
 

traded hock after going through his development and he entered his prime only draft his store brand replacement with the pick. Fail. 
 

branch - fine pick. Good safety at the top of the second is fine. Though another secondary position. 

 

hooker- if he hits, sure changes the conversation but quite the long shot. 
 

it’s easy to collect top second tier position players when you have massive draft capital. You need game changers at premiere positions in a draft position like they had. 

 

Fair counter, appreciate the detailed response.  I don't personally agree with some of these, but that is ok, everyone sees things differently.  

 

I get your point on the RB, but its not the same run game from last year.  They lost over 1000 yards and 17 TDs when Jamaal left, and lost another 500+ yards when they parted with Swift trading him to the Eagles for a bag of chips.  He seemed to fall out of favor some last year when even healthy Jamaal was seeing more carries.  

 

Gibbs now has a clear path to a big role in Detroit, who use their RB's a lot in this current offense.  Positional value is different from team to team.  For example, what the Niners paid for CMC would not have made a lot of sense for other teams, but made perfect sense for the 49ers offense.  

 

And like I said...strip away the "when" they were drafted and look at the players and the roster, and these guys just landed 4 starters and project QB with potential in the first 3 rounds.  

[NoSaint]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fair counter, appreciate the detailed response.  I don't personally agree with some of these, but that is ok, everyone sees things differently.  

 

I get your point on the RB, but its not the same run game from last year.  They lost over 1000 yards and 17 TDs when Jamaal left, and lost another 500+ yards when they parted with Swift trading him to the Eagles for a bag of chips.  He seemed to fall out of favor some last year when even healthy Jamaal was seeing more carries.  

 

Gibbs now has a clear path to a big role in Detroit, who use their RB's a lot in this current offense.  Positional value is different from team to team.  For example, what the Niners paid for CMC would not have made a lot of sense for other teams, but made perfect sense for the 49ers offense.  

 

And like I said...strip away the "when" they were drafted and look at the players and the roster, and these guys just landed 4 starters and project QB with potential in the first 3 rounds.  

I guess a reframe- would the following have been better team building: 

 

keep hockenson- proven starter instead of hopeful prospect to contribute

 

draft Jalen Carter (not trade up for a DT later)

 

draft jack Campbell to play behind carter

sign one (or two!) of several RBs for dirt cheap. 

Use their day two picks however they please. 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by NoSaint

[LABILLBACKER]

Eagles

Texans

Seahawks

Steelers

Lions?

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I guess a reframe- would the following have been better team building: 

 

keep hockenson- proven starter instead of hopeful prospect to contribute

 

draft Jalen Carter (not trade up for a DT later)

 

draft jack Campbell to play behind carter

sign one (or two!) of several RBs for dirt cheap. 

Use their day two picks however they please. 

 

 

 

EDIT:  On the trade back, I still like the move back on a team with a lot of holes.  I wouldnt have taken a RB at 12 personally, but again, my whole point is if you look at the haul of players and not the draft slot or the would have should have scenarios, I like their draft for their team.

 

They traded Hockenson when they were losing, and after an up and down tenure with the Lions, were not planning to pay him what he is going to fetch next year after his 5th year option is done.  Some think he could reset the TE market, and he definitely wasn't playing to that level of value in Detroit.  So rather than pay him, they traded him and got back a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a TE, that is a pretty good haul and more than some top WR's got traded for.  

 

Curious...prior to the draft, if there was no cap hit, would you have traded Knox and his $13M salary for a 2nd and 3rd in a TE rich draft?  Just know, Knox last 2 years are pretty close to Hockenson career averages, and over the last 2 seasons, Knox has 5 more TD's and a higher catch %.  

 

And I think LaPorta has a ton of potential as a weapon and if he develops they get him on a rookie deal for 4 years.  So I don't blame the Lions for trading Hock for a 2nd and 3rd ahead of a TE rich draft rather than having to make him one of the highest paid TE's next year, if not the highest. 

 

PS:  For the record, I like Knox, wasn't suggesting we should have traded him.   

Edited April 30, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Jalen Carter went 3 picks before them at 9, they picked Gibbs at 12.  I would have said absolutely take Carter, but that wasn't possible, he was already an Eagle.  Don't get it twisted, I am not defending taking a RB at 12, I would not have myself either.  I am saying when you strip away where they were drafted, their draft was strong in terms of talent added.   

 

They traded Hockenson when they were losing, and after an up and down tenure with the Lions, were not planning to pay him what he is going to fetch next year after his 5th year option is done.  Some think he could reset the TE market, and he definitely wasn't playing to that level of value in Detroit.  So rather than pay him, they traded him and got back a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a TE, that is a pretty good haul and more than some top WR's got traded for.  

 

Curious...prior to the draft, if there was no cap hit, would you have traded Knox and his $13M salary for a 2nd and 3rd in a TE rich draft?  Just know, Knox last 2 years are pretty close to Hockenson career averages, and over the last 2 seasons, Knox has 5 more TD's and a higher catch %.  

 

And I think LaPorta has a ton of potential as a weapon and if he develops they get him on a rookie deal for 4 years.  So I don't blame the Lions for trading Hock for a 2nd and 3rd ahead of a TE rich draft rather than having to make him one of the highest paid TE's next year, if not the highest.  

carter went ahead of them because they traded back. They could’ve gotten a top ten player. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

carter went ahead of them because they traded back. They could’ve gotten a top ten player. 

 

Oh yeah, forgot about that...although I would have still traded back.  I liked the trade back on a team with so many holes.  But I see what you meant now.  That is a good question, I still like the trade back, I would have just not taken a RB at 12 personally.  

[Big Blitz]

Seahawks - Broncos trade

 

Broncos get 

 

Russel Wilson

Eyioma Uwazurike 2022 4th RD Pick

 

 

Seattle:

 

 

[NoSaint]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Oh yeah, forgot about that...although I would have still traded back.  I liked the trade back on a team with so many holes.  But I see what you meant now.  That is a good question, I still like the trade back, I would have just not taken a RB at 12 personally.  

Also a fair take- just using it as a rarer talent than RB they passed that would pair with LB if letting that one slide in unchanged. 
 

I get there’s no singular way but to turn 6 and 18 into a running back, off the ball lb and safety is rough even if those guys are likable players. 

 

 

 

[Yantha]

2 hours ago, Wizard said:

I think the Eagles had a great draft. No doubt that Carter is a knucklehead, but his talent is legit, and he is going to a team with solid players already and a winning culture.  Add in Nolan Smith, Ringo, and then some guys who were productive players in college, I think they had a great draft.

 

I would give our Bills an "A" for the first 2 rounds and a "C" for rounds 3-7 at first glance.

 

 

 

 

I'd say A, B, C for the Bills:  A for rounds 1, 2, B for round 3, and C for round 6.

 

But as they say, "evaluate the draft in the third season".....

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Also a fair take- just using it as a rarer talent than RB they passed that would pair with LB if letting that one slide in unchanged. 
 

I get there’s no singular way but to turn 6 and 18 into a running back, off the ball lb and safety is rough even if those guys are likable players. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I would have personally probably taken a corner there for the Lions at 12

[Sestak4ever]

I am not a fan of the Lion's draft at all. I am a long time Bills fan and season ticket holder for 20 years, now living in Alabama.  Been here since 1996. Watch all the Bama games and a ton of SEC games in general. Was disappointed in Will Anderson's 2022 season. Thought he played much better the previous year. Early on he was in the conversation for possible consideration for the Heisman as a defensive player, but that dried up as the season progressed. It will be interesting to see how this projects to the pro level. Thought the Colts did well except for Richardson. People keep comparing his situation to Josh Allen's, however Josh had no talent around him at Wyoming.  Richardson was surrounded by talent at Florida, but could do nothing with it. Thought the Steelers draft went well also. All in all it seemed like a relatively weak draft class which makes it harder to gauge. When all is said and done,  Go Bills!!

[JoPoy88]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Even if Gibbs turns out good, the position isn't valuable. You could get 85% of the production with a dude in the 5th round, not a position you spend a top 15 pick on

For sure and that’s why I say never draft a RB in the 1st rd period. I agree with you. But they obviously have a different philosophy and if Gibbs hits and he’s great (or even very good) throughout his rookie deal I think people won’t care where he was drafted.

 

Of course I don’t think that will happen because is obviously almost never ever does with running backs.