RD 5, Pick 150: WR Justin Shorter, Florida

[947]

22 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Didn't perform the agility drills at the Combine. Wonder why. Hamstring?

A lot of the big X WR types elect to skip the shuttle & 3-cone drills, they're advised by their agents to do so when it's apparent their skill set isn't agility, and doing those drills will only hurt them.

 

Metcalf did both drills, and while he blew the doors off the combine in the speed, strength, & explosiveness drills, he totally crapped the bed in the 3-cone & shuttle. It's part of the reason why he dropped to Round 2. Calvin Johnson skipped both & he still went #2 overall.

[No_Matter_What]

6 hours ago, LEBills said:

Seems like a really great kid but I think he will be a PS guy whether we get DHop or Jalen Wayne or Tyrell Shavers beats him out for a 53 spot. Wayne is a better receiver at this point and Shavers is a great special team gunner. Rooting for all three of them tho

Shorter is almost a lock imo and I think Shavers is likely to make roster too. We'll take 7 WRs this time around.

[Warriorspikes51]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpYtEXgLg13/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

Look at the acceleration when he turns upfield

[buffaloboyinATL]

24 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpYtEXgLg13/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

Look at the acceleration when he turns upfield

Gotta love those long strides!

[WideNine]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:29 PM, SirAndrew said:

Good point, but I think QB accuracy is more complex than catching a football. People assume low completion percentage means the QB is inaccurate. A QB’s supporting cast can make him appear to be more inaccurate than he is. I guarantee Josh would have been considered an accurate passer had he played with SEC level talent. 

 

Totally agree with this as accuracy gets muddled by dink and dunk QBs with high completion rates, and QBs that have the luxury of elite pass catchers. Those elite receivers share a common trait of getting open, winning on contested throws, and having a great catch radius and hands. Throwing on the money is always a good thing, but having  receivers that can adjust their routes, speed, timing, positioning and leverage to be in best position to catch a pass cannot be undervalued.

Cousins has always been a pretty accurate passer when given time, but the addition of Jefferson who is an elite receiver made his stats go through the roof. We saw first hand how Jefferson could correct normally poor throwing decisions in traffic with circus catches over defenders.

 

Not sure about the SEC statement. If we are honest, Allen did have really bad mechanics coming out of college, but folks should balance that with his multi-sport focus in HS and the fact that he never really had the luxury of QB schools and coaching that could have helped correct those mechanics. Perhaps in a SEC school he would have gotten those things and great receivers to boot. Either way, OBD knew he was raw with a lot of upside when they took him in the draft.

For me the biggest head-scratcher with Allen is the tendencies to misfire behind or near the LOS with screens, bubbles, wheel routes, and dumps. Those seem to be the hardest throws for him where those are usually the bread & butter of QBs that pad their QBR with easy to make high-completion passes. He is like a guy who can nail all the 3 pointers, but makes layups seem hard.

 

That being said, Allen is the type of player who will keep working and tweaking his game. Since he thrives on extending plays, he does not really rely as much as other QBs on those kind of intended dink & dunk plays -  for now. He will need to learn to lean on those outlet options more to protect his body and his NFL longevity as his game matures. 

 

Last year I noticed he was experimenting a lot more with his release angles and putting some arc on his throws as defenders at the LOS were having more success getting their hands up to knock down passes. His elbow injury may have contributed to some changes in throwing motion too. One thing for sure with Allen is that it always feels like you need to strap in because you are likely in for a wild ride.
 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, 947 said:

A lot of the big X WR types elect to skip the shuttle & 3-cone drills, they're advised by their agents to do so when it's apparent their skill set isn't agility, and doing those drills will only hurt them.

 

Metcalf did both drills, and while he blew the doors off the combine in the speed, strength, & explosiveness drills, he totally crapped the bed in the 3-cone & shuttle. It's part of the reason why he dropped to Round 2. Calvin Johnson skipped both & he still went #2 overall.

 

This lead to the whole “but he can’t turn!!!” commentary. Well, so much for that.

 

 

(And I admit to having been skeptical, full disclosure.) 

[Maine-iac]

If Shorter shows he can do Gave Davis type things it would be a real cost savings as Davis hits the end of his contract.  I like Davis but he has enough stats to demand a decent contract.  Money we might not have.

[zevo]

2 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

If Shorter shows he can do Gave Davis type things it would be a real cost savings as Davis hits the end of his contract.  I like Davis but he has enough stats to demand a decent contract.  Money we might not have.

as of now I have no desire to shell out the contract that Gabe will get. 

[Turk71]

Shorter was the top ranked wr in 2018 college recruiting class that included Amon Ra, Waddle, and Chase; so the potential is definitely there. Penn St was a bad fit and it seems he was much improved his last seasons at Fla. 

 I hope he is a diamond in the rough and contributes immediately

[Don Otreply]

50 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Totally agree with this as accuracy gets muddled by dink and dunk QBs with high completion rates, and QBs that have the luxury of elite pass catchers. Those elite receivers share a common trait of getting open, winning on contested throws, and having a great catch radius and hands. Throwing on the money is always a good thing, but having  receivers that can adjust their routes, speed, timing, positioning and leverage to be in best position to catch a pass cannot be undervalued.

Cousins has always been a pretty accurate passer when given time, but the addition of Jefferson who is an elite receiver made his stats go through the roof. We saw first hand how Jefferson could correct normally poor throwing decisions in traffic with circus catches over defenders.

 

Not sure about the SEC statement. If we are honest, Allen did have really bad mechanics coming out of college, but folks should balance that with his multi-sport focus in HS and the fact that he never really had the luxury of QB schools and coaching that could have helped correct those mechanics. Perhaps in a SEC school he would have gotten those things and great receivers to boot. Either way, OBD knew he was raw with a lot of upside when they took him in the draft.

For me the biggest head-scratcher with Allen is the tendencies to misfire behind or near the LOS with screens, bubbles, wheel routes, and dumps. Those seem to be the hardest throws for him where those are usually the bread & butter of QBs that pad their QBR with easy to make high-completion passes. He is like a guy who can nail all the 3 pointers, but makes layups seem hard.

 

That being said, Allen is the type of player who will keep working and tweaking his game. Since he thrives on extending plays, he does not really rely as much as other QBs on those kind of intended dink & dunk plays -  for now. He will need to learn to lean on those outlet options more to protect his body and his NFL longevity as his game matures. 

 

Last year I noticed he was experimenting a lot more with his release angles and putting some arc on his throws as defenders at the LOS were having more success getting their hands up to knock down passes. His elbow injury may have contributed to some changes in throwing motion too. One thing for sure with Allen is that it always feels like you need to strap in because you are likely in for a wild ride.
 

It just might be that after playing a big chunk of the season injured Josh might actually take to heart the benefit of the short / check down pass  when it’s the right choice in the right circumstance, ya never know…, 

[MrEpsYtown]

19 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Shorter was the top ranked wr in 2018 college recruiting class that included Amon Ra, Waddle, and Chase; so the potential is definitely there. Penn St was a bad fit and it seems he was much improved his last seasons at Fla. 

 I hope he is a diamond in the rough and contributes immediately

Coaching was pretty inconsistent there and sometimes it just takes big guys longer as well. I’m very excited about this one. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Augie]

42 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

If Shorter shows he can do Gave Davis type things it would be a real cost savings as Davis hits the end of his contract.  I like Davis but he has enough stats to demand a decent contract.  Money we might not have.

 

But…….we have @HOUSE on our side!!! 

 

I’ve said I like Gabe more than most others do here. I expect a pretty good year, and a pretty good offer from another team. He will be the next Horrible Harry or Tremaine. Out the door, because we drafted a guy who turned out to be good enough that he had a serious market. 

 

I hope we have a bigger, better replacement. A guy can dream, right? 

 

 

.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Augie

[Maine-iac]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

But…….we have @HOUSE on our side!!! 

 

I’ve said I like Gabe more than most others do here. I expect a pretty good year, and a pretty good offer from another team. He will be the next Horrible Harry or Tremaine. Out the door, because we drafted a guy who turned out to be good enough that he had a serious market. 

 

I hope we have a bigger, better replacement. I guy can dream, right? 

 

 

.

i think as a team we are pretty good at evaluating WR's.  We used a late round pick on Gabe and it turned out well.  Hodgins and Shakir seem to be on track to be decent players.  Hopefully they can keep going to that draft pick well and Shorter sees the field a lot.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

This lead to the whole “but he can’t turn!!!” commentary. Well, so much for that.

 

 

(And I admit to having been skeptical, full disclosure.) 

Shorter did the agility drills at his pro day, according to this. It did not go well. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Shorter did the agility drills at his pro day, according to this. It did not go well. 

 

Wait, am I reading this right? Did he come in in the 3rd percentile in the three cone drill? Did he get lost or something? 

[Maine-iac]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Shorter did the agility drills at his pro day, according to this. It did not go well. 

His 3 cone was not good but all in all his 20 yard was faster than gabe and his 40 and 10 yard splits were virtually identical.  If he's running routes Gabe runs his 3 cone isn't as important as just timing and running a good route.  As long as they aren't asking him to do water bug things.  I guess we'll see though.

[Chaos]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Wait, am I reading this right? Did he come in in the 3rd percentile in the three cone drill? Did he get lost or something? 

It actually indicates the cone won. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Chaos

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Maine-iac said:

If Shorter shows he can do Gave Davis type things it would be a real cost savings as Davis hits the end of his contract.  I like Davis but he has enough stats to demand a decent contract.  Money we might not have.

Shorter is Gabes replacement.  Gabe will get paid.  Well at least too much for Bills come free agency.  Shorter and Shavers make it for special teams, and replace Taiwan, Kumerow, and possibly Matekevich.  Rookie contracts free up cap space to plug other holes

[MrEpsYtown]

Sh

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Shorter did the agility drills at his pro day, according to this. It did not go well. 

 

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Wait, am I reading this right? Did he come in in the 3rd percentile in the three cone drill? Did he get lost or something? 

Someone made a point somewhere about big guys and agility drills. Both Shorter’s 3 cone and shuttle are bad scores but actually better than DK Metcalf. DK has Shorter easily beat in the 40, but that’s why Shorter is a 5th round pick. Shorter’s short shuttle is better than Tee Higgins as well. Almost every measure of Shorter’s is better than Higgins and I think that is a good comp. Plus Shorter has 15 lbs on him. Those scores have not affected Higgins’ career.
 

Big guys like Mike Williams, DJ Chark, Equanimous St. Brown and Chase Claypool skipped those drills. 
 

I think those numbers are super important especially for a slot guy, but in this case for a 5th rounder with upside, it doesn’t really bother me. If he had the great 3 cone and a better 40 he would have been a first round pick. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[newcam2012]

Looks like he's on steroids. Reminds me of David Boston.