Bills Roster Discussion

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Chargers are an actual option. Mike Williams is $33m on the cap next year, $12m dead if they get out. They aint paying him $33m. Likely Keenan Allen's last year too. Gabe is a level below Williams but they are similar players and the difference isn't huge. Tom Telesco loves bigger receivers. 

yea, that is why I chose that team. Tried being realistic instead of feeding him to a dumpster fire team and that would be a bad example. 

[T master]

No mention of Shorter, Latavious Murray, did you mention Hines ?

 

If it was me i would cut Barkley to open another roster spot for someone like Shorter . There will be so many good players that the Bills will have to let go & that really sucks !

 

Other teams like the Pats, & NYG will be salivating waiting for cut down day knowing al of the talent the Bills will be letting go .

 

They do need to keep some players on the roster so they don't get stolen like Hodgins did last season . 

[Solomon Grundy]

Bills have Shane "Sting" Ray and Marvin Wilson in on camp tryouts. Ray was a former 1st rd pick of Broncos. Wilson former DT at Florida State 

[In Summary]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:23 PM, Drew21PA said:

Sheesh

 

i am probably the only one here that is thinking Kincaid is allowed to be average this year and if he exceeds my expectations excellent

 

I feel he will be good - and first couple preseason games and regualr season I’ll be double taking saying “wait who was that again?”  
 

but everyone coming out of the gate saying Kincaid is going to be the number 2 star behind Diggs idk

 

MAYBE eclipse 500 yards in my estimate…

 

 

it's reasonable to think a rookie will have limited contributions no matter who they are.

[Warriorspikes51]

 

Extend DaQuan and sign Ngakoue 

[MrEpsYtown]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Bills have Shane "Sting" Ray and Marvin Wilson in on camp tryouts. Ray was a former 1st rd pick of Broncos. Wilson former DT at Florida State 

Ray always had talent and the ability to rush the passer. Those wrist injuries are just brutal for pass rushers. It’s probably nothing more serious than a camp flyer…but he has pass rush ability you can’t teach. Not your typical flyer imo. 

This is fun…what he does to Morse

 

 

 

They were also teammates at Mizzou

Edited May 12, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Extend DaQuan and sign Ngakoue 

 

From Brandon Beane's presser today regarding possible DT extensions:

 

"You know me well, ya know, we've found a way to sometimes do an extension or two, ya know, in Training Camp. So maybe we look at it at that point, see where the guys are at - who's all in, who's looking good, and if there's a chance to get one extended, we might look to do that then"

 

Seems he's not going to do that until he sees the guys in Camp, takes a look at them, and talks to them and their people.

 

Takes two to tango with extensions. It isn't as simple as just saying "extend this guy and sign this guy". Maybe Daquan isn't interested in signing an extension before hitting the market. Maybe he wants more than Beane is offering right now 

 

But Beane isn't the type to do an extension simply to sign someone else. Yannick is going to get a gig before Training Camp. Beane's also not the type to make an offer and then double back and offer substantially more.

 

Seems to me he may want another Edge. But it will have to be at his price of an incentive laden deal. Somebody is going to have to settle for that and we're going to get a steal. But it won't be Yannick. We made our offer, he said no. We'll wait and move on to the next guy who will take it.

Edited May 12, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Bills have Shane "Sting" Ray and Marvin Wilson in on camp tryouts. Ray was a former 1st rd pick of Broncos. Wilson former DT at Florida State 

 

Ray was always an overdraft. Predictable bust. Wilson was a guy a LOT of Bills fans wanted us to take a late flyer on when he came out. Interesting tryout players.

20 hours ago, T master said:

No mention of Shorter, Latavious Murray, did you mention Hines ?

 

If it was me i would cut Barkley to open another roster spot for someone like Shorter . There will be so many good players that the Bills will have to let go & that really sucks !

 

Other teams like the Pats, & NYG will be salivating waiting for cut down day knowing al of the talent the Bills will be letting go .

 

They do need to keep some players on the roster so they don't get stolen like Hodgins did last season . 

 

Barkley won't make the roster unless Kyle Allen sucks in camp.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ray was always an overdraft. Predictable bust. Wilson was a guy a LOT of Bills fans wanted us to take a late flyer on when he came out. Interesting tryout players.

 

Barkley won't make the roster unless Kyle Allen sucks in camp.

Def a huge overdraft, but he has a ability. I feel like injuries crushed him. 

[BillsFanForever19]

22 hours ago, T master said:

No mention of Shorter, Latavious Murray, did you mention Hines ?

 

If it was me i would cut Barkley to open another roster spot for someone like Shorter . There will be so many good players that the Bills will have to let go & that really sucks !

 

Other teams like the Pats, & NYG will be salivating waiting for cut down day knowing al of the talent the Bills will be letting go .

 

They do need to keep some players on the roster so they don't get stolen like Hodgins did last season . 

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Solomon Grundy]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:49 AM, Shemp said:

Nobody's talking about Beasley. Is he finished as a Bill and/or an NFL player?

Done like a Christmas goose😅

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

 

And I basically have it the same save Murray cut and Morris in. 

 

I just think if you are going to run some 12 as your base being one injury away from  having to ditch a whole chunk of your playbook necessitates an additonal tight end and personally I just don't see losing Murray as something to fear. I think he is mainly here as insurance against Harris's hamstrings not making it through camp. 

 

I know they have kept 4 backs previously but that included a guy who they didn't ever use as a back. Unless that is the way they seen Hines (and if so he is waaay overpaid) I think they will end up with 3 backs, Murray on the PS and if someone picks him up for a few weeks to cover an injury so be it.

[T master]

17 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

 

If as you say Morris is a casualty i think Dabol will be all over that one because the dude has great hands & would be a plus on any team in need of a go to receiver .

 

Here's another question as far as a roster spot goes . Why do they have 1 roster spot for a long snapper ? Wouldn't it be more advantageous to have your Center be that guy too ?

 

Morse signed a contract for $50 mill & i get it that learning all the line calls & such is a huge responsibility but you can't tell me the dude can't long snap & that would be 1 extra roster spot to have another player like say Morris to stick rather than cut .

 

Always wondered about that is it that much of a specialty that Morse couldn't learn how for $50 mill ??

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, T master said:

 

If as you say Morris is a casualty i think Dabol will be all over that one because the dude has great hands & would be a plus on any team in need of a go to receiver .

 

Here's another question as far as a roster spot goes . Why do they have 1 roster spot for a long snapper ? Wouldn't it be more advantageous to have your Center be that guy too ?

 

Morse signed a contract for $50 mill & i get it that learning all the line calls & such is a huge responsibility but you can't tell me the dude can't long snap & that would be 1 extra roster spot to have another player like say Morris to stick rather than cut .

 

Always wondered about that is it that much of a specialty that Morse couldn't learn how for $50 mill ??

Long snapper is a unique technique. There's a reason teams have a dedicated player for that position alone. If it was something the ordinary center could typically handle without the reps, everyone would do that and save the roster spot. Do you imagine league wide folks just haven't thought of it?

[T master]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Long snapper is a unique technique. There's a reason teams have a dedicated player for that position alone. If it was something the ordinary center could typically handle without the reps, everyone would do that and save the roster spot. Do you imagine league wide folks just haven't thought of it?

 

No i imagine they have . But given the amount of extra money paid out for another roster spot i'm pretty sure there COULD be 50 million reasons for someone to put in the extra time to learn how to do basically the same thing .

 

The same but different . I use to be a brick mason for a pool company and to be more employable i expanded my craft to doing tile then doing rock, glass block & more, so in the same thought if you are a center you have the basic skills so why not expand them ?

 

It's just a thought & i find it hard to believe that it can't be done these men are usually exceptionally smart & very athletically gifted people so in my punny little mind i don't see it being that big of a mountain to climb .

 

 

[Dr. Who]

22 minutes ago, T master said:

 

No i imagine they have . But given the amount of extra money paid out for another roster spot i'm pretty sure there COULD be 50 million reasons for someone to put in the extra time to learn how to do basically the same thing .

 

The same but different . I use to be a brick mason for a pool company and to be more employable i expanded my craft to doing tile then doing rock, glass block & more, so in the same thought if you are a center you have the basic skills so why not expand them ?

 

It's just a thought & i find it hard to believe that it can't be done these men are usually exceptionally smart & very athletically gifted people so in my punny little mind i don't see it being that big of a mountain to climb .

 

 

My surmise is that the longsnapper works with punters and kickers as part of a single "special teams unit" as it were and that it actually entails a lot of technique and continual repetition. It isn't something you can take ten minutes off to the side to address. Hence, you cannot task part of the starting oline to participate in what involves that level of commitment. Generations ago, the kicker was not a specialist. Longsnapper, like kicker, is now a specialist position and I don't think you can build out from a normal G or C to accomplish the same thing. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

No i imagine they have . But given the amount of extra money paid out for another roster spot i'm pretty sure there COULD be 50 million reasons for someone to put in the extra time to learn how to do basically the same thing .

 

The same but different . I use to be a brick mason for a pool company and to be more employable i expanded my craft to doing tile then doing rock, glass block & more, so in the same thought if you are a center you have the basic skills so why not expand them ?

 

It's just a thought & i find it hard to believe that it can't be done these men are usually exceptionally smart & very athletically gifted people so in my punny little mind i don't see it being that big of a mountain to climb .

 

 

Teams don't want this because of injury and the intricacies of snapping. The NFL long snapper can spin the ball to have the laces up in a 4 sq inch window 8 yards underneath behind him and a 60 sq inch window with laces up 18 yards back and underneath him. The tempo to go from playing one position to cool, calm, and focused for that is difficult. A minor injury can really tweak that. 

 

I long snapped in HS and was quite good. My favorite position. My favorite memory was in training camp having coaches put on boxing gloves to hit me while in my stance. 😁

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I basically have it the same save Murray cut and Morris in. 

 

I just think if you are going to run some 12 as your base being one injury away from  having to ditch a whole chunk of your playbook necessitates an additonal tight end and personally I just don't see losing Murray as something to fear. I think he is mainly here as insurance against Harris's hamstrings not making it through camp. 

 

I know they have kept 4 backs previously but that included a guy who they didn't ever use as a back. Unless that is the way they seen Hines (and if so he is waaay overpaid) I think they will end up with 3 backs, Murray on the PS and if someone picks him up for a few weeks to cover an injury so be it.

 

That's fair. I don't think that's crazy at all to surmise. 

 

Morris was #54 on my roster. I think what swayed me was a video from the Cover 1 guys talking about Kincaid being Drafted not being good for Morris. I think Gilliam could cover both roles and get more reps, making the contract he signed last season a worthwhile investment.

 

Reggie Gilliam started his career here as a TE. Even as a FB, he's sort of a FB/TE hybrid. And with the addition of Harris, who's a very good blocking Back and a Power Runner - on run downs you could put Gilliam on the line as the 3rd Blocking TE, who can catch some passes.

 

Morris plays on Special Teams. But we've added Sherfield, Shorter, and Williams to play mainly Teams (to go with core guys like Matakevitch, Neal, Bernard, and others). So we may be good there as well.

 

Again, I don't think it's crazy to surmise that Murray is released and Morris stays. I just think with the general makeup of the build of McBeane's rosters that they wouldn't feel comfortable dressing Cook, Harris, and Hines every week as they will and not have something they're comfortable with dressing the following week in the likely event that one of them goes down.

 

I also feel that with Beane calling up Murray's people and getting the deal done on Draft Day, facilitating a Trade Down in lieu of Drafting a RB in the 6th (who I think would have been on the 53) speaks some volumes. I think they liked what Murray did last season and want a 4th guy they can rely on instead of grabbing whomever off the scrap heap, if one of our core 3 guys go down.

 

I also think that when push comes to shove - the likelihood of a team giving Morris a spot on their 53 after cutdowns is pretty low. And that he'd be less likely to be poached off the Practice Squad then Murray would be, at a generally league wide war torn position like RB.

 

Murray was the go to guy for teams last year who had injuries at the RB position. Signing to two different teams and being activated to play because of league wide injuries at the position.

Edited May 13, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That's fair. I don't think that's crazy at all to surmise. 

 

Morris was #54 on my roster. I think what swayed me was a video from the Cover 1 guys talking about Kincaid being Drafted not being good for Morris. I think Gilliam could cover both roles and get more reps, making the contract he signed last season a worthwhile investment.

 

Reggie Gilliam started his career here as a TE. Even as a FB, he's sort of a FB/TE hybrid. And with the addition of Harris, who's a very good blocking Back and a Power Runner - on run downs you could put Gilliam on the line as the 3rd Blocking TE, who can catch some passes.

 

Morris plays on Special Teams. But we've added Sherfield, Shorter, and Williams to play mainly Teams (to go with core guys like Matakevitch, Neal, Bernard, and others). So we may be good there as well.

 

Again, I don't think it's crazy to surmise that Murray is released and Morris stays. I just think with the general makeup of the build of McBeane's rosters that they wouldn't feel comfortable dressing Cook, Harris, and Hines every week as they will and not have something they're comfortable with dressing the following week in the likely event that one of them goes down.

 

I also feel that with Beane calling up Murray's people and getting the deal done on Draft Day, facilitating a Trade Down in lieu of Drafting a RB in the 6th (who I think would have been on the 53) speaks some volumes. I think they liked what Murray did last season and want a 4th guy they can rely on instead of grabbing whomever off the scrap heap, if one of our core 3 guys go down.

 

I also think that when push comes to shove - the likelihood of a team giving Morris a spot on their 53 after cutdowns is pretty low. And that he'd be less likely to be poached off the Practice Squad then Murray would be, at a generally league wide war torn position like RB.

 

Murray was the go to guy for teams last year who had injuries at the RB position. Signing to two different teams and being activated to play because of league wide injuries at the position.

 

Murray will play for multiple teams in 2023. Whether one of them is the Bills is kind of neither here nor there IMO. I just think in the overall roster makeup it makes very little sense. I'd hate it personally and I have been a Latavius Murray fan throughout his career. He won me 2 fantasy championships as a Raider.

[BillsFanForever19]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Murray will play for multiple teams in 2023. Whether one of them is the Bills is kind of neither here nor there IMO. I just think in the overall roster makeup it makes very little sense. I'd hate it personally and I have been a Latavius Murray fan throughout his career. He won me 2 fantasy championships as a Raider.

 

I mean, I personally think it makes perfect sense. Gilliam plays limited reps in a hybrid FB role. I think he can take on both his limited role and Morris' limited role, justifying his 2 year 4.6m extension he signed last season until 2025.

 

I also think Morris is unlikely to be signed to a 53 following cut downs and less likely to be poached than Murray, if placed on the Practice Squad.

 

We also have TE Zach Davidson, a 6'7" former 5th Round pick of the Vikings, who we signed to the Practice Squad at the beginning of last season and has remained on the team through a Futures Contract. Providing insurance on the Practice Squad in the unlikely event we were to lose Morris at TE. Likewise, we have little to no insurance at RB.

 

Ultimately, in Morris, we're talking about a guy who averaged 13 snaps a game on Offense last season, almost exclusively as a Blocker, getting 10 catches on 11 targets for 102 yards and 1 TD. He played more on Special Teams, but we've also added a number of Special Teamers and retained most of our core.

 

I don't see him as irreplaceable as you do given all of this. But we can agree to disagree on that.