Bills Roster Discussion

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:28 PM, KDIGGZ said:

Kincaid has never played a down. He definitely doesn't solve the WR2 problem 

Once FA kicked off, the Bills had to restructure players to get under the cap.

 

If the Bills were going to get Hopkins they needed to get aggressive and make that the first thing they pursued.

 

And that comes at the expense of a good percentage other FAs.

 

Once the Bills started retaining their own talent, bringing back Poyer, that moment for Hopkins passed.

 

Podcasters and Bills fans kept bringing up pie in the sky scenarios about the Cardinals eating 80%’of the money and trading Ed Oliver and a 5th. In other words Bills fans wanted to give up their garbage and the Cardinals hand over Hopkins.

 

The Bills have no cap space. Beane said it again in his press conference. 
 

You saw how much it took to move up 2-spots for Kincaid.

 

To go from 27th to 19th and get ahead of all the WR group would have cost a 2nd and a 3rd most likely.

 

The Bills right or wrong love Gabe Davis, so with Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Knox, it would have to be one heck of a WR to jump Knox, Kincaid and Davis to slot just behind Diggs. 

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, SCBills said:

In fairness, I posted that at noon on Saturday.. before we drafted Shorter. 
 

I still don’t know that I love our WR room.. but we have limited resources and chose to take give ourselves a potential monster TE tandem.  
 

Shorter does make me feel better about outside depth.  He’s all potential … the floor is really low, but at least we have another big body outside WR to develop long term behind Diggs and Davis as a potential option other than Harty, who is a very different skill set. 
 

Shakir and Sherfield both being inside/outside flex.   If I had to guess, Shakir will focus more on the slot now. 
 

WR room has potential and good depth, but until proven otherwise, is lacking at the WR2 spot for an elite pass heavy offense. 

 

Davis is technically the #2. But we didn't Draft Kincaid for him to put his hand on the ground. 

 

Kincaid was selected to be Josh's 2nd option, split out wide. And Harty will spell Davis at times in packages. 

 

Davis isn't Tee Higgins. But most teams don't have 2 Elite WR's on the field at the same time. Who did KC have last year? MVS? Kelce and Schuster (before him Hill) were there primary pass catchers. Kincaid was drafted to be that for us.

[K D]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Once FA kicked off, the Bills had to restructure players to get under the cap.

 

If the Bills were going to get Hopkins they needed to get aggressive and make that the first thing they pursued.

 

And that comes at the expense of a good percentage other FAs.

 

Once the Bills started retaining their own talent, bringing back Poyer, that moment for Hopkins passed.

 

Podcasters and Bills fans kept bringing up pie in the sky scenarios about the Cardinals eating 80%’of the money and trading Ed Oliver and a 5th. In other words Bills fans wanted to give up their garbage and the Cardinals hand over Hopkins.

 

The Bills have no cap space. Beane said it again in his press conference. 
 

You saw how much it took to move up 2-spots for Kincaid.

 

To go from 27th to 19th and get ahead of all the WR group would have cost a 2nd and a 3rd most likely.

 

The Bills right or wrong love Gabe Davis, so with Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Knox, it would have to be one heck of a WR to jump Knox, Kincaid and Davis to slot just behind Diggs. 

Agree with that. WR2 is still a problem. Teams at the end of the year doubled Diggs which led to him blowing up on the sidelines. Expect more of that this year 

[Mat68]

10 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Agree with that. WR2 is still a problem. Teams at the end of the year doubled Diggs which led to him blowing up on the sidelines. Expect more of that this year 

Having a chain mover on offense like Kincaid will get Diggs more opportunities.  Those few games where the offense couldn't find a rhythm caused the frustration.  

[K D]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

Having a chain mover on offense like Kincaid will get Diggs more opportunities.  Those few games where the offense couldn't find a rhythm caused the frustration.  

Maybe but what I see is Josh Allen scrambling and whatever play they had called is off and it becomes a scramble drill with everyone focusing on Diggs. I haven't seen Josh do a 3 step drop and hit a receiver maybe ever, at least not since the height of Cole Beasley's career

[BillsFanForever19]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:28 PM, KDIGGZ said:

Kincaid has never played a down. He definitely doesn't solve the WR2 problem 

 

This is like saying any player drafted in the 1st Round to fill a role is meaningless.

 

Whether he has "played a down" or not is meaningless. He was by many the top pass catcher in the entire Draft. We traded up to get him to fill the role as one of the top 2 options for Josh split out wide.

 

Teams don't look at 1st Round picks and say "I can't rely on this, better get a vet too". Kincaid and Harty will make Davis have less on his plate than last season.

 

There is no #2 problem, outside of a few fans like yourself. Davis isn't Higgins. But 90% of the teams in the league don't have 2 Elite WR's on the field at the same time. Davis is high on the list of WR2 productivity. And Kincaid makes him option 2B or 3 now. And Harty may take Davis off the field in certain packages as well.

Edited May 1, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[finn]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:34 AM, KDIGGZ said:

Maybe. I'm a "I'll believe it when I see it" when it comes to them actually utilizing him in an effective way. Seems like they draft these hybrid type guys and then don't use them like that. All last year we heard how badly they needed a pass catching RB and then they get Cook and Hynes and don't throw to either!

Not sure it's "they." Could be just Allen, who prefers going long, even if it's low percentage. That's why I think they were hoping for Addison in the draft. Last year, there seemed to be a disconnect between Beane and Dorsey, with Beane bending over backwards to secure a receiving back (settling on Hines) that Dorsey appeared to ignore. Or, again, it could have been Allen. He didn't want to check down, didn't even want to throw to Knox. He wanted to go deep to Diggs, and things didn't click very well when teams figured out they should double team him. 

 

So is Kincaid a check-down option or a deep threat? He may be something in between, like Shakir, Crowder, and Beasley. I'm just hoping someone will emerge as deep threat. Most likely possibility: Davis has a resurgence. 

[K D]

7 minutes ago, finn said:

Not sure it's "they." Could be just Allen, who prefers going long, even if it's low percentage. That's why I think they were hoping for Addison in the draft. Last year, there seemed to be a disconnect between Beane and Dorsey, with Beane bending over backwards to secure a receiving back (settling on Hines) that Dorsey appeared to ignore. Or, again, it could have been Allen. He didn't want to check down, didn't even want to throw to Knox. He wanted to go deep to Diggs, and things didn't click very well when teams figured out they should double team him. 

 

So is Kincaid a check-down option or a deep threat? He may be something in between, like Shakir, Crowder, and Beasley. I'm just hoping someone will emerge as deep threat. Most likely possibility: Davis has a resurgence. 

Yes I agree it's Josh and also the OC not holding him accountable. You can't go bombs away every play. Take 3 steps, throw the ball. I can't even count the number of times it's like 3rd and 2 and he's throwing it 40 yards down field when I see 2 guys open at the bottom of the TV screen. I think Kincaid will be a RedZone threat but for all of you guys that think he's going to be Beasley with 80 catches for 1000 yards then prepare to be disappointed 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Trying to figure out for the life of me what "CF" and "SF" mean?

 

CF means College Free agent.  In other words UDFA.

SF means a Street Free agent.  That could be a guy who didn't play the previous year or a released player (vet) released from a team

after free agency.

[Eastport bills]

The Bills must add an impactful DLineman.  It is a ? how and when Miller comes back and we have not put enough pressure on QBs. The LBs are weaker as a unit unless one of the depth guys step up. The secondary will be vastly improved with the return of Hyde and the safety we added who’s good. White will be 2 years removed from the ACL. The problem is without pressure these great QBs in the AFC will carve you up. I like the offense and they will score a lot, but the OC is critical. Incorporating Kincaid and a conventional running attack without keeping Diggs and Davis involved will be a challenge. Dorsey has looked like a rookie, becoming predictable  and making Josh vulnerable by overusing him in the run game. Overall, if the O-line is improved and that’s a big if because the O-line coach hasn’t improved the personnel as yet,we should be more explosive because Allen is arguably the best QB in football. Finally, I look for the defensive scheme to be better because Sean is better than Frazier. The roster needs a few more additions but with great special teams we’ll be as good as any team in the AFC.

[chongli]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

CF means College Free agent.  In other words UDFA.

SF means a Street Free agent.  That could be a guy who didn't play the previous year or a released player (vet) released from a team

after free agency.

 

Ahhh...got it. Thank you. I thought it meant something like that, with "CF" being UDFA from college, and "SF" meaning "signed free agent", but that is weird. I understand the OP perhaps wanted to save space in the chart, but I would have just used "UDFA" and "FA" for ease of understanding. 

[ColoradoBills]

12 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Ahhh...got it. Thank you. I thought it meant something like that, with "CF" being UDFA from college, and "SF" meaning "signed free agent", but that is weird. I understand the OP perhaps wanted to save space in the chart, but I would have just used "UDFA" and "FA" for ease of understanding. 

 

Pretty sure the OP used Ourlads' NFL Scouting Services Depth Chart.  I use it a lot for other teams.

They use a very large "key" to identify how players were acquired.  I kind of like the site.

Here is the key.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/key.aspx

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:48 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Epenesa and Basham must be the happiest guys on the roster. Neither are worthy of a roster spot yet the Bills have done nothing to address the edge situation.  Hopefully they can add a veteran post June 1 on a 1 year deal and move on from these two busts.

Still hate the fact we have a FB on the roster.  Wasted roster and cap space in my mind.  But I can't see that changing this year.

With Kincaid being added I would get rid of Morris and go with just two TEs again.  I'd rather use the extra roster spot to let one of these small LBs play STs, occasional 4-3 sets, or play some big-nickel.   

I think the final roster decisions will come down to how many safeties they want to keep on the roster.  I had Benson moving to S this year but it doesn't look like that will happen.  Now we have a bit of a glut at CB.  If White doesn't rebound fully he may be a cap casualty for 2024.  Probably too soon to think about it, but maybe Dane Jackson is a trade possibility?

This is a good post. 

 

I think the Bills are likely to flip-flop team approaches this year. 

 

I can see the Bills looking at the tape of 13-seconds and Cincinnati, and concluding as John Fina said - this Walt Corey, Death by 1,000 paper cuts style of defense is not going to work. 

 

Because they have strained and pulled the cap to bring back essentially the same personnel minus Edmunds, they could attempt to play the same scheme, but I think they're smarter on that. 

 

I think they trust White, Hyde, Poyer, Von Miller, Milano to run a more aggressive defense. I think they will conclude that they need to take more chances, cheat the Safeties closer to the line, play more press man. 

 

The Bills don't have a physically imposing defense. They just don't have many physical mismatch players. Who is scary on the Bills defense? No maulers on the defensive line, no linebackers that light people up, years of conservative play in the secondary. They are a defense ripe to get pushed around. And maybe that's why they've tried to hang back for years. But I can see a secondary in approach where they aren't as obsessed with getting beat over the top. Trying to create more turnovers, more confusion. 

 

But you're right here, the bottom end of the defensive line - Settle, Epenesa, Basham, they're poor and can only be used on a rotational basis based on the opposing teams look. Based on what Beane has said and the veterans still available, I do anticipate Beane trying to bring in at least one veteran to add some grit to an otherwise toothless defense. 

[chongli]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Pretty sure the OP used Ourlads' NFL Scouting Services Depth Chart.  I use it a lot for other teams.

They use a very large "key" to identify how players were acquired.  I kind of like the site.

Here is the key.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/key.aspx

 

Perfect. This is what I was looking for!

[MrEpsYtown]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:34 AM, KDIGGZ said:

Maybe. I'm a "I'll believe it when I see it" when it comes to them actually utilizing him in an effective way. Seems like they draft these hybrid type guys and then don't use them like that. All last year we heard how badly they needed a pass catching RB and then they get Cook and Hynes and don't throw to either!

 

It's a lot more difficult to implemenet a pass ctahing running back into the offense becuase if affects pass pro. It is really easy to stick a tight end in the slot. 

 

I understand what you are saying, but somehow Kincaid and Knox will be on the field together. Does that take reps Morris and from Shakir, Harty, even Gabe? Probably. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Offense:  25

 

2 - QB: Allen, Allen

4 - RB: Cook, Harris, Murray, Hines, 

6- WR: Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

3 - TE: Knox, Kincaid, Morris

1 - FB: Gilliam

9 - OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown, Bates, Doyle, Edwards, Broeker    (Boettger traded for a late pick)

 

Defense: 25

 

5 - DT: Jones, Ford, Phillips, Oliver, Settle

5 - DE: Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham,

6- LB: Milano, Klein, Bernard, Spector, Williams, Matakevich

4 - S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin

5 - CB - White, Elam, Benford, Johnson, Jackson 

 

Specialists: Bass, Martin, Reid 

 

Before UDFA's are officially announced  (Shavers, Gouraige, DJ Dale, J.Wayne could push for spots)

Edited May 2, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Airseven]

Not a lot of intrigue with this roster. The spots are rather clear, mediocre depth, and few true camp battles.

 

QB Josh Allen
QB Kyle Allen
RB James Cook
RB Damien Harris
RB Nyheim Hines
RB Latavius Murray
FB Reggie Gilliam
WR Stefon Diggs
WR Gabe Davis
WR Trent Sherfield
WR Khalil Shakir
WR Deonte Harty
WR Justin Shorter
TE Dawson Knox
TE Dalton Kincaid
TE Quintin Morris
T Dion Dawkins
T Spencer Brown
T Tommy Doyle
T David Quessenberry
G Ryan Bates
G Connor McGovern

G O'Cyrus Torrence
G David Edwards/Ike Boettger
C Mitch Morse
DE Greg Rousseau
DE AJ Epenesa
DE Boogie Basham
DE Shaq Lawson
(PUP Von Miller)
DT Ed Oliver
DT DaQuan Jones
DT Poona Ford
DT Tim Settle
DT Jordan Phillips/Brandin Bryant
LB Matt Milano
LB Tyrel Dodson
LB Terrel Bernard
LB Dorian Williams
LB Tyler Matakevich

LB AJ Klein/Baylon Spector
CB Tre'Davious White
CB Kaiir Elam
CB Taron Johnson
CB Dane Jackson
CB Christian Benford
CB Cam Lewis
CB Siran Neal
S Micah Hyde
S Jordan Poyer
S Taylor Rapp
K Tyler Bass
P Sam Martin
LS Reid Ferguson
(54)

[BlazinBill]

I really don't t like our WR room at all- was really hoping after not getting Hopkins we did something - I guess there's still time.

I don't see the Bills suddenly having 175 targets between 2 TE's bit hey Go Bills - 

I have no issues eating crow 

[Big Turk]

15 hours ago, Airseven said:

Not a lot of intrigue with this roster. The spots are rather clear, mediocre depth, and few true camp battles.

 

QB Josh Allen
QB Kyle Allen
RB James Cook
RB Damien Harris
RB Nyheim Hines
RB Latavius Murray
FB Reggie Gilliam
WR Stefon Diggs
WR Gabe Davis
WR Trent Sherfield
WR Khalil Shakir
WR Deonte Harty
WR Justin Shorter
TE Dawson Knox
TE Dalton Kincaid
TE Quintin Morris
T Dion Dawkins
T Spencer Brown
T Tommy Doyle
T David Quessenberry
G Ryan Bates
G Connor McGovern

G O'Cyrus Torrence
G David Edwards/Ike Boettger
C Mitch Morse
DE Greg Rousseau
DE AJ Epenesa
DE Boogie Basham
DE Shaq Lawson
(PUP Von Miller)
DT Ed Oliver
DT DaQuan Jones
DT Poona Ford
DT Tim Settle
DT Jordan Phillips/Brandin Bryant
LB Matt Milano
LB Tyrel Dodson
LB Terrel Bernard
LB Dorian Williams
LB Tyler Matakevich

LB AJ Klein/Baylon Spector
CB Tre'Davious White
CB Kaiir Elam
CB Taron Johnson
CB Dane Jackson
CB Christian Benford
CB Cam Lewis
CB Siran Neal
S Micah Hyde
S Jordan Poyer
S Taylor Rapp
K Tyler Bass
P Sam Martin
LS Reid Ferguson
(54)

 

Sure...but what could we expect from a source of constant negativity and a Fin fan?

 

Ignored.

[buffblue]

1 hour ago, BlazinBill said:

I really don't t like our WR room at all- was really hoping after not getting Hopkins we did something - I guess there's still time.

I don't see the Bills suddenly having 175 targets between 2 TE's bit hey Go Bills - 

I have no issues eating crow 

There's still some concern there for sure.

 

Sherfield is mainly a ST player. Harty could be a nice player for us, but I have a bad feeling that his diminutive size will lead to constant nagging injuries, like another Marquise Goodwin. Shakir is the guy who could really elevate this group. There is reason for optimism given the signs he flashed in his rookie season.

 

Overall I would rank the unit somewhere in the 10-15 range. Not bad, but you can certainly see why Hopkins has been a hot topic of discussion.