2023 offense has potential to be best in Bills history

[Southern_Bills]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:40 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean sure but we have had some awesome offenses. I like the optimism but the rb room leaves a lot to be desired and we need a legit #2 receiver. However without a doubt, it is possibly our best TE room next to mark campbell and Tim Euhus!!!

 

 

If they can actually attack with the TEs Gabe might just be open more.

[hondo in seattle]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:13 AM, GreggTX said:

I wouldn't say that Harris is any better than Singletary, but he's no worse and he's a better fit. I also think we're weak at 1 Guard spot even with Torrence whom I expect to be our best Offensive Lineman. I'm not at all impressed with any of the other Guards on our roster. Still, it's Brown's 3rd year and he's healthy, so that bodes well. Also, I think Torrence brings a very positive outlook to the OL room that should lift performances across the board. If we sign even an average MLB or trade for one and even land Hopkins to pay us back for Hail Murray, this team is going to be as good as any in recent memory.

 

Josh obviously needs to reduce the turnovers after leading the NFL in that category last year, but he can do that for these reasons. For one, he can slide more and wrap up the ball much better. That should reduce fumbles. Also, throwing from a clean pocket and having better skill players along with a more productive ground game should help him reduce interceptions.

 

I'm surprised we didn't trade up for one of the 2 quality MLB's left in the 3rd, but perhaps Beane just wasn't able to find the right deal. I believe we'll be OK if we just get a veteran MLB with decent speed and cover skills as well as a pass rusher to hold down Von's spot until he's ready to go.

 

Statistically, Harris isn't better than Singletary.  Yet, when I've watched Harris run, I felt he was bigger, faster, stronger, and more explosive.  Maybe it's because Harris has played well against the Bills, but he looks like a better back to me.  

 

We've seen so many opponents to stop the pass with nickel and dime defenses and various blitz packages.  I never got the sense that opposing defenses took our running game very seriously.  If Dorsey schemes it up right, I think they will this year.  And that will make Josh's job easier.  

[PBF81]

53 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Statistically, Harris isn't better than Singletary.  Yet, when I've watched Harris run, I felt he was bigger, faster, stronger, and more explosive.  Maybe it's because Harris has played well against the Bills, but he looks like a better back to me.  

 

We've seen so many opponents to stop the pass with nickel and dime defenses and various blitz packages.  I never got the sense that opposing defenses took our running game very seriously.  If Dorsey schemes it up right, I think they will this year.  And that will make Josh's job easier.  

 

Definitely bigger and I agree that he's more explosive, but he doesn't strike me as being faster.  Singletary's shiftier too.  

 

His best games were against us, which is why I'm guessing that they liked him, a little blindered vision there IMO.  Also a disproportionate number of his rushing TDs were against us.  In about 10% of his games he posted 25% of his TDs.  Against all other teams besides us he's averaged only 4.4 ypc which is very average.  

 

Singletary's yards-from-scrimmage are nearly twice what Harris' are.  IMO we're going to miss Singletary.  I don't see Harris being anymore than a low-end starting caliber RB.  If I had to compare him to one of our past RBs, the one that comes to mind is Antowain Smith.  I suspect that they're planning on using Cook as the 3-down starter, how he fares in that role remains to be seen.  The most carries he's ever gotten in a season is 113 at Georgia.  The most carries he's ever seen in a game is 14, last season vs. the Pats.  

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:55 AM, Process said:

If the season started tomorrow, the offense is already significantly better than last year. We have upgraded LG, Slot WR, WR5, RB and "TE2". Added speed, added a potentially elite weapon. I really like what Beane has done. 

 

It wasn't a great FA/draft for teams needing a starting WR. So I am good adding Kinclaid and waiting until next year. 

 

To me though, replacing Brown was a must, not a luxury. Doesn't matter who is running routes if Josh is running for his life. 

 

Maybe it's coming in round 2. But if we are running it back with Brown, I hope he proves Beane right. 

I am excited about the new offensive additions but we're still stuck with a very mediocre RT who's more than capable of getting Josh hurt.  And I'm still very skeptical about Dorsey's 2nd year.

[Mr. WEO]

I’ve read this before…

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

I’ve read this before…

I suspect you shall again…about this time next year. 

[Airseven]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:56 AM, ngbills said:

With JA anything is possible. But there is nothing we have done this off season to take a best ever leap. Still questions on OL, WR, RB. If they go get DHop I could entertain the debate. 

How is anything possible with Allen? Did you watch him last year? Your second point is valid and it’s tough to swallow at this point that this regime didn’t commit - all in - on revamping the OL.

[T master]

I believe that this is a very possible statement for the Bills offense Beane has done some more of the things he does & i feel the weapons he has added & given those he has brought in on the O line once they get figured out who will stay & who will go will help immensely both in the passing & the run game .

[PrimeTime101]

9 hours ago, Airseven said:

How is anything possible with Allen? Did you watch him last year? Your second point is valid and it’s tough to swallow at this point that this regime didn’t commit - all in - on revamping the OL.

Answer 2 questions please.

Is Josh Allen a top 5 QB?

Can a team at any given year win a SB with a top 5 QB?

[Shaw66]

Well, I'll chime in.  

 

Yes, the Bills 2023 offense could be the best in Bills history.  If it all comes together, it could be a beautiful thing.   The question, of course, is whether it will come together.

 

I've been talking a lot lately about McDermott's desire for position versatility.   He wants a lot of guys who can do a lot of different things, on the assumption that he can mix and match pieces to allow the Bills offense and defense each to play a lot of different ways.  He thinks that by doing that, the Bills will be a power running team when they need it, a finesse passing team when they need it, and everything in between.   He envisions a team where his personnel create mismatches on every play, and a team that knows how to take advantage of each mismatch.  That would be a beautiful thing, but the question is whether the Bills can accomplish that, or whether it's even possible.

 

If it's possible, then on offense Dorsey has to be the one to pull it all together.   He has to find a way to make the passing game click with what is a very interesting collection of receivers.   He's got size (Davis, Shorter, Knox, Kincaid), maddening one-on-one matchup problems (Diggs and Harty), he's got Shakir doing a bit of everything.  He has to develop a genuinely good running game that the Bills can depend on when they need it.   In order to do that the Bills have gone away from the jackknife-style running back (Singletary, who could do a little of everything, but wasn't good enough as a pass receiver, as a speed back, or as a power back) and instead put together an array of backs with complementary or different styles.  Hines is the speed back, Harris is the power back, Cook is a speed back with enough power to play every down, and Murray is the power back with enough speed to play every down.   The roster is versatile to the max, and Dorsey has to make it work.   

 

Making it work, of course, means the o-line has to work.  And on the o-line, of course, the Bills have been trying to play the versatility game, as well.  Dawkins isn't the best pass blocker or the best run blocker among LTs, put he's pretty good all around.  Morse isn't a power guy, but he's good glue and leadership, and he can move well.  Torrence is presumptively the power guy.  Brown is the jackknife on the line, along with Bates.   Whether constructing a line that way actually can work is, well, up to Dorsey.  He's the one who has to pull it together (with Kromer, of course).  

 

I think the discussion about Harris really brings into focus this idea about versatility.   McBeane thought a versatile guy like Motor could be good enough in the power back role, and they thought a more muscular version of Motor (Moss) was all they needed.  They thought that by being a multi-purpose threat, Motor would force the defenses to hedge their bets a bit, creating opportunities for Motor to make power runs.   I think they decided that that theory doesn't work, because in obvious run situations, defenses were willing to ignore Motor's multi-purpose style and stop him, because he was in fact an undersized power back.  Same with Moss.  McBeane have gone away from that with Harris.  They want to use Harris, I assume, like the Pats did, which is to force defenses to respect the fact that he will run you over and then take advantage of the fact that he had just enough speed and shiftiness to beat you for a few yards with finesse.   And Murray runs with that style, too, with a little less power and a little more finesse.  

 

But for that to work, it begs the same question about the offensive line.  Can you win with a bunch of hybrid players, or do you need a true road grader to run behind?   Same for pass blockers?   Drafting Torrence is a move away from versatility and toward players with special skills that create an advantage without being uber-versatile.  Can you get the best of both worlds with Brown and Torrence side-by-side, or do you just have an ugly mismatch that allows defenses to attack the weaknesses of both?   

 

In my darkest moments, I worried that McBeane are playing mad scientist and the laboratory is about to blow up any minute now.   Still, I can see how it all can come together and in fact be the best offense the Bills have ever had. 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:23 AM, Wizard said:

Yes...Josh Allen is better than Jim Kelly, but these Bills are not close enough to comparing better offenses.

 

Kelly, Thomas, Lofton, Reed, K. Davis, Hull, Ballard and Wolford is much stronger than...

 

Allen, Diggs...and a few people with potential 

 

 Yet, I believe 1991 was Buffalo's best offense with Kelly & the gang and they fall about 110 yards short of the Bills 2022 offense. I haven't looked at every year, but I believe last year was the most ypg ever by a Bills offense, beating out the 2020 offense by 18 yards for the year.

 

 People act like we didn't excel at moving the ball last year, but the stats don't lie when they encompass an entire year. What we didn't do so well last year was in areas such as redzone turnovers and kicking a bunch of short fgs.

 

 

 

[Bookie Man]

On 5/7/2023 at 11:22 AM, PBF81 said:

 

Definitely bigger and I agree that he's more explosive, but he doesn't strike me as being faster.  Singletary's shiftier too.  

 

His best games were against us, which is why I'm guessing that they liked him, a little blindered vision there IMO.  Also a disproportionate number of his rushing TDs were against us.  In about 10% of his games he posted 25% of his TDs.  Against all other teams besides us he's averaged only 4.4 ypc which is very average.  

 

Singletary's yards-from-scrimmage are nearly twice what Harris' are.  IMO we're going to miss Singletary.  I don't see Harris being anymore than a low-end starting caliber RB.  If I had to compare him to one of our past RBs, the one that comes to mind is Antowain Smith.  I suspect that they're planning on using Cook as the 3-down starter, how he fares in that role remains to be seen.  The most carries he's ever gotten in a season is 113 at Georgia.  The most carries he's ever seen in a game is 14, last season vs. the Pats.  

 

 

I might be mistaken, but I remember Antowain Smith being kind of a beast. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Alpo Chino said:

I might be mistaken, but I remember Antowain Smith being kind of a beast. 

 

He was your typical 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust type.  Reliable to get a short-yardage 1st-down, but never a threat to take it to the house type.  

[BigAl2526]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:34 AM, CA OC Bills Fan said:

I was thinking last night while many were pointing out that we now have two TEs with DK initials that back in 1989 we introduced a new offence named "K Gun" which was named after our dynamic pass catching TE Keith McKeller. Now of course we have two more 'Ks'.

Is 2023 the year of the "Double K Gun?"

[BigAl2526]

I'm hopeful, but then I'm pretty much always hopeful.  We can't say for certain that Spencer Brown will be better, but it is not hard to understand why he failed to have a good season in 2022.  The other question at tackle is Tommy Doyle.  Of course, he missed the entire last season, but he was regarded as a pretty athletic guy.  We don't know that he will develop and be much better than he was two years ago as a  rookie, but we don't know that he won't either.   The disappointing performance of Roger Saffold is all too familiar to Bills fans.  It would be hard for Buffalo to do worse in 2023.  We all know that Buffalo did not sign any high priced free agent guards.  They did, however, sign two veterans with starting experience.  The also drafted arguably the best pure guard in the draft in O'Cyrus Torrence.  I imagine that the Bills will have something like an open competition for both guard spots, but I think most would have a hard time thinking that Torrence doesn't end up with one starting post locked up, probably tight guard.  That means Bates will be fighting to retain his starting spot with two other guys that are legitimate competition to start.  I don't think Bates is the favorite in that competition, but Bates does have an ace up his sleeve.  Bates can potentially back up four out of the five spots on the offensive line, and he might be the second best center on the team.  If he doesn't win the starting left guard spot, he's not going anywhere.   

 

I think it would be almost impossible for the offensive line not to be better than in 2022.  The question is how much better, whether it is only a little better or a lot better.  That remains to be seen. 

[Success]

22 hours ago, Airseven said:

How is anything possible with Allen? Did you watch him last year? Your second point is valid and it’s tough to swallow at this point that this regime didn’t commit - all in - on revamping the OL.

 

"All in?"

 

You wanted to see every lineman replaced?  With better linemen?

 

[Chandler#81]

I enjoy Bills optimism as much as the next fan, but I don’t share @Success views for this season. Not yet, anyway. 
 

Here’s why.

#1 The AFC is absolutely loaded -as is our Division. We had an injury-ladened comeuppance last year and we showed we don’t have and can’t afford better quality backups. 
#2 Frazier is gone. Say what you will about bend don’t break, they were the failing aspect in the playoffs every year. Sean came through the ranks with 7 seasons under Jim Johnson with Philly until his untimely death, taking over for 1 year at DC. He claims this Defense will be much more aggressive, but the giant Eagle span is gone in the middle, so QBs will once again be fearless throwing over the middle. How are we going to be ‘aggressive’ with a stable of 1 year interior DL when we haven’t been for 4 years straight? Will another jarring hit to the neck shelf Hyde for another season -or his career? We have to seriously begin to address the Safety spot and frankly, Hamlin was unimpressive in his 1st year. 
#3 Dawkins is an over-rated tub of goo. Is he our best OLman? Allen makes them all seem serviceable but none are dominant. 
#4 We let our leading rusher over the past 4 seasons walk without even trying. Hines rarely saw the field sans STs. 4 different style RBs behind a convoluted OL? 

#5 Does Dorsey even know what a ‘F’ TE is? He never played with one, never coached one and never drew up a play for one. With just 1 season as OC, his play calling actually devolved over the season to ‘just let Josh be Josh’. A Bill Walsh he ain’t.

#5 WNY weather.

#6 Brit Williams leaving Josh on the day of the Cincy playoff game (allegedly) explains a lot about his performance. A 10 year+ intimate relationship doesn’t disappear immediately. Hell, she has his dog!

 

I’m hopeful for the playoffs but I fear our best opportunity has slipped by with this group. Allen is young enough that we may still be able to re-invent another group to try again before he retires..

🤷‍♂️

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The 1975 Bills were number 1 in yards and number 1 in points scored. Pretty high standard to meet!

[SoMAn]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:23 AM, Success said:

This was a sneaky good offseason for our offense.

 

Kincaid brings a versatility we didn't have at TE, and will create match-up nightmares for opposing DC's.  The additions of Sherfield and Harty were low key, but give us even more versatility, speed, YAC - and all 3 new additions have great hands, which is something we lacked in '22.

 

Then you go to the RB unit. Damien Harris is the best RB we have had in years, with Cook coming into his 2nd year after coming on strong at the end of last season.  They complement each other well.

 

If Davis can get back to form, and Brown takes the leap and realizes his potential - this team could have the best offense in the league, and the best we've seen in Buffalo.  And I loved the K-Gun days, but this O could be better.

And IF Josh improves ball placement so it doesn’t need to be scooped from the turf, high-pointed, or have the WR slow up to catch the pass that should’ve been thrown 3 yards further.  

[Scott7975]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:40 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean sure but we have had some awesome offenses. I like the optimism but the rb room leaves a lot to be desired and we need a legit #2 receiver. However without a doubt, it is possibly our best TE room next to mark campbell and Tim Euhus!!!

 

 

We have a legit #2 receiver.   People just expect that #2 to be a #1b.  Getting Hopkins would have been a 1b, not a legit #2.