RD 1, Pick 25: TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Personally,  Gronk belongs in the All-time TE conversation in any era..........Kelce almost plays a different position altogether than those other guys.

 

The 2010 rules changes really had their biggest impact on receiving in the middle of the field.........which is where TE's operate.

 

Kelce has basically played his entire career with a different set of rules than guys like Gates and Gonzalez played well into the primes of their careers.

 

 Yeah, I'm not debating the rule changes. Sure Kelce has benefited from rule changes, just as Gonzalez & Gates benefited from rule changes when compared to TEs from the 60s, 70s & 80s. Every generation of TE has benefited from the one before it, in that aspect, for the last 3 decades or so. 

 

 Kincaid will benefit over Kelce as his entire career will be played with a minimum of 17 games(Possibly 18 in the future) along with any future rule changes. 

 

 I agree with your comments on Gronk, he's one of, if not, the best of all-time time when talking about the traditional TE position, but much like the QB position, the TE position is starting to include more & more hybrid TEs.

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

Kelce is an awesome TE but let's temper some of the accolades.

He spent his entire career with Andy Reid as HC/OC.  He has had Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes as his only 2 QBs.

 

His career would be a whole lot different if he was drafted by the NY Jets in 2013 instead of KC.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Kelce is an awesome TE but let's temper some of the accolades.

He spent his entire career with Andy Reid as HC/OC.  He has had Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes as his only 2 QBs.

 

His career would be a whole lot different if he was drafted by the NY Jets in 2013 instead of KC.

I agree with you….but that’s just sports. 

 

but Jerry Rice’s career would’ve been a whole lot different if he was drafted by the Bucs instead of the niners.  Same can be said for many HoF pass catchers that we’re catching passes from HoFers.

 

Kelce is special.  

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Yeah, I'm not debating the rule changes. Sure Kelce has benefited from rule changes, just as Gonzalez & Gates benefited from rule changes when compared to TEs from the 60s, 70s & 80s. Every generation of TE has benefited from the one before it, in that aspect, for the last 3 decades or so. 

 

 Kincaid will benefit over Kelce as his entire career will be played with a minimum of 17 games(Possibly 18 in the future) along with any future rule changes. 

 

 I agree with your comments on Gronk, he's one of, if not, the best of all-time time when talking about the traditional TE position, but much like the QB position, the TE position is starting to include more & more hybrid TEs.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say you were debating the rules changes you and others were totally ignoring them from the discussion......and instead using counting stats as the foundation of your argument.

 

The year after those rules changes 7 QB's had top 25 all-time passing yardage seasons.    It was not the kind of gradual change that took place between the 80's and then that you are poo-pooing it as.  

 

And specifically,  in the case of Kelce,  the changes also.....almost certainly.......lead to Patrick Mahomes choosing football over baseball and becoming the league's best QB and altering Kelce's career outlook drastically.    

 

Kelce was very good back in 2017.........a 1,000 yard receiver playing with a top 10 QB in Alex Smith throwing him the ball.   But he wasn't nearly the weapon Mahomes has made him.    When McDermott's Bills beat KC in Arrowhead in 2017 they took BOTH of Kelce and Hill right out of the game.    They COMBINED for 80 yards that day.    Kelce was running open that day too.......that's just the difference between a playoff caliber QB playing at his prime level and an all-time great at QB like Mahomes.   

 

Hopefully,  Kincaid gets the same synergy with the also truly elite Josh Allen at QB.   

[Dr. Who]

58 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I didn't say you were debating the rules changes you and others were totally ignoring them from the discussion......and instead using counting stats as the foundation of your argument.

 

The year after those rules changes 7 QB's had top 25 all-time passing yardage seasons.    It was not the kind of gradual change that took place between the 80's and then that you are poo-pooing it as.  

 

And specifically,  in the case of Kelce,  the changes also.....almost certainly.......lead to Patrick Mahomes choosing football over baseball and becoming the league's best QB and altering Kelce's career outlook drastically.    

 

Kelce was very good back in 2017.........a 1,000 yard receiver playing with a top 10 QB in Alex Smith throwing him the ball.   But he wasn't nearly the weapon Mahomes has made him.    When McDermott's Bills beat KC in Arrowhead in 2017 they took BOTH of Kelce and Hill right out of the game.    They COMBINED for 80 yards that day.    Kelce was running open that day too.......that's just the difference between a playoff caliber QB playing at his prime level and an all-time great at QB like Mahomes.   

 

Hopefully,  Kincaid gets the same synergy with the also truly elite Josh Allen at QB.   

Yes, you have to strategize with the contemporary rules of the game in mind. Kincaid is a rational shot at giving Allen a player that can fill the same role that Kelce does for Mahomes. Kincaid has enough athletic gifts to make it plausible. It would help to have Andy Reid calling the plays, but even so, it was the right move to make.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, you have to strategize with the contemporary rules of the game in mind. Kincaid is a rational shot at giving Allen a player that can fill the same role that Kelce does for Mahomes. Kincaid has enough athletic gifts to make it plausible. It would help to have Andy Reid calling the plays, but even so, it was the right move to make.

Throw those out there saying that Kelsey is bigger than Kincaid
 

We’re talking about 5 to 10 pounds here and they do not use him to block in Kansas City. He’s out there running routes and catching passes creating mismatches totally the way that Kincaid will be used for the bills

[Augie]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:19 AM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Regardless of stats, Gates seems like an odd person to come up in discussion as a comparable because stylistically he and Kincaid seem very different to me.

 

Changing gears, last week The Athletic had more discussion on Kincaid:

 

“I like Kincaid to Buffalo,” an exec said. “He was clearly the No. 1 tight end for us. You put him in that offense, then you take the guard in the second round. That is scary for a top-five offense to reload and potentially get better. I like what they did.”

The Athletic’s Randy Mueller (former New Orleans GM) ranked Kincaid as the 10th-best prospect in this draft and his favorite overall evaluation.

“Getting the player is one thing, deploying him is another,” another exec said. “When you start talking about the contenders, Buffalo is not necessarily going the other way, but they do rely too much on their quarterback. The key is going to be how well their coordinator is able to use two tight ends. You don’t see every coordinator do that well.”

 

Paywall and apologies if this was already posted: https://theathletic.com/4490198/2023/05/05/nfl-draft-class-analysis-execs-unfiltered/

 

 

 

 

 

Josh is obviously our MVP. We will only go as far as he takes us, but it can’t be all on him to this degree. Dorsey, at this point, looks like our MVOG (Most Valuable Other Guy) for this season. He is the one person in the Bills organization with the most to prove. 

[Nephilim17]

This could be just lip service on Josh's part regarding Kincaid, but I don't think so.

 

"I didn't think he'd be there by the time we were picking," Allen said. "We'll just say I was persistent in my talks with Beane and who I wanted. I was very, very happy with how it happened."

 

Regarding the bolded, Josh could be either alluding to specifically wanting Kincaid (if he was there), or just generally speaking asking for a receiving threat. Not sure. But based on his language I'm taking his response as genuine that he's very happy to have Kincaid.

 

I'm also glad to read that Josh has some influence with Beane. This might seem like a no-brainer but based on recent drafts I would say that Josh's influence has been less than significant.

"Obviously super excited to get a weapon like him," Allen said. "He's very fluid in his route running. He's a very fluid ball catcher. He tracks the ball well, so any time you get to add a piece to your offense like that, I can't help but be excited. He seems like he's a smart kid. ... He's going to help us out a lot."

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/josh-allen-happy-to-have-dalton-kincaid-aboard-pulling-for-rory-mcilroy-at-this-weeks/article_9f96ef42-f44a-11ed-8907-8b016618481c.html

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Nephilim17 said:

Regarding the bolded, Josh could be either alluding to specifically wanting Kincaid (if he was there), or just generally speaking asking for a receiving threat.

 

Beane has said Allen specifically told him he liked Kincaid. When Beane texted Allen right before making the pick to let him know he was taking Kincaid, Allen got so excited he blew up Beane's phone. So yes Allen loved the pick. This makes me especially excited about Kincaid because it shows that Allen will specifically look to throw him the ball.

 

I have said elsewhere I believe Kincaid will immediately take over Beasley's role in this offense and will be fully up to speed by week 1 (he played in a pro offense at Utah). Allen loved using Beasley as his safety valve until his talent fell off a cliff, so much so that he walked into Beane's office and asked him to bring Beasley out of retirement just to give him somebody functional in that role last year. I'm sure he is very excited to have that type of player back in his offense after spending most of 2022 without it.

[BillsShredder83]

Really hope we plug him in day 1 as slot, and bring him along on reps as TE. We need a big bodied wr more than we need a inline TE

[NewEra]

Just ordered my Kincaid Jersey!  I hope he doesn’t change his number after a season!!

 

Talk of this man will rule the board in a few months. HoF bound!  🧌 

[Saxum]

From Linked In:

 

Buffalo Bills fans

Bud Rainbow

BIG ENDORSEMENT‼️ Hall of Famer Andre Reed on Buffalo Bills rookie TE Dalton Kincaid: “After talking to this young man, I know the Bills offense is about to be even more scary. Let's go!”

 

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 5/17/2023 at 5:12 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Really hope we plug him in day 1 as slot, and bring him along on reps as TE. We need a big bodied wr more than we need a inline TE

I totally agree, given he is ready.  I cant imagine they wouldn't moving u to pick him rd 1.  I was against it initially but as i learned more about his hands, his length, route running, this could or should be a game changer offensively.  And we MIGHT have competent guard play and a stable of RBs, the offense seemed to have "mature", at least in terms of potential.

[wppete]

Having a line up this we can run down people’s throats all day.

 

WR - Gabe Davis

TE - Kincaid 

TE - Knox

WR - Shorter

RB - Harris

[Warriorspikes51]

On 5/17/2023 at 6:12 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Really hope we plug him in day 1 as slot, and bring him along on reps as TE. We need a big bodied wr more than we need a inline TE

 

That certainly appears to be the plan. Some reports saying Bills are thrilled and believe he is the next star TE....and not in an inline sense.  Travis Kelce like 

[TheWeatherMan]

On 5/21/2023 at 12:13 AM, NewEra said:

Just ordered my Kincaid Jersey!  I hope he doesn’t change his number after a season!!

 

Talk of this man will rule the board in a few months. HoF bound!  🧌 

Sure hope so, but in reality we need to curb expectations out of the gate.  Name the last rookie TE that had a major immediate impact? 

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Sure hope so, but in reality we need to curb expectations out of the gate.  Name the last rookie TE that had a major immediate impact? 

TE position is rapidly evolving, the day of the Ditkas, Shockeys are long gone, they are rapidly morphing into TE/WRs so historical precedence, imo, is not relevant.  Kincaid can have a huge impact as the TE/WR which in fact he will be.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Sure hope so, but in reality we need to curb expectations out of the gate.  Name the last rookie TE that had a major immediate impact? 

“We” don’t have to do anything.  Our expectations will have zero impact on reality. 
 

I see an advanced skill set that should thrive playing with Josh Allen. 
 

Our franchises history of rookie TE performances has nothing to do with Dalton Kincaid or his future.  When was the last time I TE was drafted to become our Wr2/3?  This is different.  
 

Since 1975 we’ve drafted 2 tight ends in the first 2 rounds (Lonnie Johnson and Tony Hunter).  It’s been the position we’ve neglected more than any other.  Now, we drafted one to become our slot receiver. 75> of the time and tight end 25%.  
 

I don’t think he’ll reach his potential this year but his talent will be flashing every week and the entire fan base will be giddy about his future.  
 

again…. My expectations and predictions are just that.  Mine.  And I can do what I please with them while being assured that they w won’t have any impact on reality. 

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Having a line up this we can run down people’s throats all day.

 

WR - Gabe Davis

TE - Kincaid 

TE - Knox

WR - Shorter

RB - Harris

Sherfield has to be in there.  He was the #1 rated run blocker out of WRs last year iirc

[wppete]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

“We” don’t have to do anything.  Our expectations will have zero impact on reality. 
 

I see an advanced skill set that should thrive playing with Josh Allen. 
 

Our franchises history of rookie TE performances has nothing to do with Dalton Kincaid or his future.  When was the last time I TE was drafted to become our Wr2/3?  This is different.  
 

Since 1975 we’ve drafted 2 tight ends in the first 2 rounds (Lonnie Johnson and Tony Hunter).  It’s been the position we’ve neglected more than any other.  Now, we drafted one to become our slot receiver. 75> of the time and tight end 25%.  
 

I don’t think he’ll reach his potential this year but his talent will be flashing every week and the entire fan base will be giddy about his future.  
 

again…. My expectations and predictions are just that.  Mine.  And I can do what I please with them while being assured that they w won’t have any impact on reality. 

Sherfield has to be in there.  He was the #1 rated run blocker out of WRs last year iirc

Forgot about him. Take out shorter and put in Sheffield. 

[The Wiz]

33 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

TE position is rapidly evolving, the day of the Ditkas, Shockeys are long gone, they are rapidly morphing into TE/WRs so historical precedence, imo, is not relevant.  Kincaid can have a huge impact as the TE/WR which in fact he will be.

I dunno about you but I prefer a tight receiver over a wide end.