The Bills never got anything for Edmunds. Will that happen again with Oliver?

[Nester]

We are getting a 3rd round pick, better then any trade would net. We also had no one to replace him if he was traded last year. 

 

I don't think you put much thought in to this. 

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

In what was supposed to be a Championship chasing year in the prime of Josh’s career…. 

Supposed to be!?! They did chase the championship. Just didn’t succeed. Hope you’re not blaming Edmunds for not winning it. And Josh is still in his prime. 

[mjt328]

I haven't been happy with a lot of Brandon Beane's moves lately.  But when it comes to Tremaine Edmunds, there really wasn't much else he could do.

 

The free agent contract he signed with the Bears was ridiculous, and way more than he was worth.  Teams tight against the cap have to set a limit on what they can spend for a player.  Letting Edmunds walk for that amount was absolutely the correct thing to do, even if he isn't easily replaced and our defense ultimately takes a step back (which I do believe is the case).  

 

It's possible Beane could have traded Edmunds for a draft pick before the 2022 season.  But that would have left a huge hole in the middle of the defense (like we have now), in what was supposed to be a Super Bowl contending season.  And at that point, I also don't think it was a given that Edmunds was going to walk in free agency.  I think the Bills always hoped to re-sign him, but the dollars just never worked out.

 

Not to mention, players with expiring contracts have a decreased trade value.  Teams are mostly paying for the ability to avoid a bidding war in free agency.  Before the 2022 season, we maybe could have gotten a 2nd Round pick for Edmunds.  At the end of the day, we still get a 3rd Round compensatory pick.

 

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Supposed to be!?! They did chase the championship. Just didn’t succeed. Hope you’re not blaming Edmunds for not winning it. And Josh is still in his prime. 

No not al all…

 

Just saying it’s another reason why you don’t trade your MLB last year… you try to chase the Championship…

[Just in Atlanta]

We got plenty for Edmunds -

 

Fewer TBD posts debating whether Edmunds is good or not. 

[longtimebillsfan]

3 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I didn’t agree or liked that the Bills traded up in the 1st rd for Edmunds and then just let him walk without receiving some kind of compensation for him. Now there’s Oliver and as far as I can tell there’s been no movement with him on a new contract. I think it’s crazy that a team would invest a 1st rd pick and then they don’t extend him or get anything back for him. A player and/or a first rd pick, these are assets. There’s times that I think that Beane isn’t too shrewd with the Pegulas’ money. I don’t believe that the Bills are going to extend Oliver and I’m ok with that but man get some kind of return for him, don’t just let him walk, the guy was the 9th overall pick for Pete’s sakes! If they already know that they’re not going to keep him then please trade him for something! If they do then hopefully they trade him during the draft so they can improve their 1st rd pick for a good player.

We got 5 years of service from Edmunds on a team friendly rookie contract.

 

We cannot keep every player at the end of his contract.

 

It was smart to get a full 5 years of service from him instead of trading him for a draft pick and leave a gaping hole in our defense one year earlier.

 

To trade him with no real leverage would have netted a 3rd or 4th round draft pick.

 

As it is we got him for 5 full years and a 3rd round pick.

 

What is not to like?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Bills got 5 years from Edmunds. Were they supposed to trade him last year? Leaving Bernard to start from Day 1. 

 

Also, Ed Oliver is a JAG. Nobody is giving anything more than a 4th for him. That doesn't alter the trajectory of your franchise. 

[bigduke6]

we didnt get anything for Edmunds?   sure we did,  5 years of LB on the cheap.   he played ok,  not worth that contract he got from Chi town though,  imo.

i still remember him launching into the wrong gap in his rookie year against the run,  letting a team that was backed up on their own 2 year line,  break a 60 yard run.   i thought,  well mbe he'll learn from that,  hes a rookie.   still shot the wrong gap all the time.   still couldnt tackle with leverage.   he was good at clogging up the middle on passing plays,  not good enough when it mattered,  but good some of the time.  beyond that,  what did he bring?

 

mbe im  wrong and and my eyes deceive me.   we'll see.    you cant pay every position top dollar.

 

when it comes to Ed.   is he sought after?  are  teams salivating to get their hands on him?  doesnt feel that way.   Ed has been lackluster tbh. 

if we get nothing for him as you say,  oh well.   again,  got 5 years of him on the cheap.   not every guy is actually worth something.

Edited April 26, 2023 by bigduke6

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

They were relieved of overpaying him.  Huge bonus.

Kind of reminds me of the Jest and CJ Mosley. He tried to stay with the Ravens but the Jest offered him so much money that by the end even the Ravens basically said “We’d love to have you back, but do what you gotta do. We understand.”

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Kind of reminds me of the Jest and CJ Mosley. He tried to stay with the Ravens but the Jest offered him so much money that by the end even the Ravens basically said “We’d love to have you back, but do what you gotta do. We understand.”

 

The Bills could have locked him up over a year ago for less.  They didn't want to. They picked up his 5th year and no more.  That tells you all you need to know. 

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The Bills could have locked him up over a year ago for less.  They didn't want to. They picked up his 5th year and no more.  That tells you all you need to know. 

 

Yup. I think things might have been different if Edmunds played in year 4 like he did in year 5, but alas….

[BillsFanForever19]

Yes. And that's normal. Do you see a rash of teams trading away players in the last year of their Rookie Deal? No. The reason for that is two fold:

 

1.) Teams aren't into trading for players that only have 1 year left on their deal unless they know the player is going to sign a long term deal with them. And the team trading them isn't likely to do it unless they know for sure they aren't going to re-sign them following the last year of the deal.

 

2.) When you Draft a player, you have them under a cost controlled Rookie deal for 4-5 seasons. You want to get at least that when you Draft a guy. Teams don't want to get 1 less year of that Rookie deal investment.

 

Is it impossible? No. But it's not foolish or weird to lose a Free Agents and get "nothing in return". It happens league wide every single year. Beane has talked about wanting to re-sign Oliver after this season. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But I don't see him not at least getting the 5th year he signed him up for.

Edited April 26, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[damj]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

How much value does Oliver carry when considering he hasn’t been elite, and is also going to get a hefty contract extension? 
Best case scenario if you want draft compensation is for Oliver to ball out this year, boost his value so he gets a monster DT contract in free agency next year. That comp pick is probably higher than anything you’d get for him right now. It’s not like Buffalo is going to be spending much in free agency for the foreseeable future 

But he's an undersized DT. That has to be worth a little something extra

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I didn’t agree or liked that the Bills traded up in the 1st rd for Edmunds and then just let him walk without receiving some kind of compensation for him. Now there’s Oliver and as far as I can tell there’s been no movement with him on a new contract. I think it’s crazy that a team would invest a 1st rd pick and then they don’t extend him or get anything back for him. A player and/or a first rd pick, these are assets. There’s times that I think that Beane isn’t too shrewd with the Pegulas’ money. I don’t believe that the Bills are going to extend Oliver and I’m ok with that but man get some kind of return for him, don’t just let him walk, the guy was the 9th overall pick for Pete’s sakes! If they already know that they’re not going to keep him then please trade him for something! If they do then hopefully they trade him during the draft so they can improve their 1st rd pick for a good player.

 

So you somehow know they haven't tried to extend him or try to trade him?  Oliver isn't playing terrible, just not at the leve lof play the #8 overall pick should be at.  Are you suggesting the Bills should over pay him and sign him to a long term deal just to not lose him?  Unfortunately to date Oliver has followed the same script as Edmund's and hasn't lived up to his draft spot so the Bills either can over pay him based on level of play to get him signed or hope Oliver realizes he's not worth that much and sign for a likely a lower amount that the Bills have offered which rarely ever happens.  He'll bet on himself having a big year and if he doesn't he's still likely no worse off than if he were to sign a lower offer from the Bills now.

 

The 3rd option is to try and trade him, but if he's not playing up to his level of play the number of teams willing to take on a $10 mil contract gets real small.  I'm sure some team may offer a very low draft pick for him, but you've then created a fairly large hole in your defense for 2023.  It's not very likely a 5th or 6th rounder you may get in return will play as well as Oliver in 2023.  Overall since the team is in a win now mode, even if they get nothing for him at the end of this season, it's probably the best option.

[BillsVet]

Like a claymore mine in the darkness...

[Southern_Bills]

Well, Oliver might bring a 3rd , or for sake of argument let's say second.

 

Would you rather have Oliver in a contract year, probably going to be a good year unless he is completely incapable, and a 3rd for compensatory pick.

 

Or, trade him for a 2nd this year?

 

I'd take my chances on a monster year knowing I won't pay him regardless and take the 3rd on top of it.

[BillsFanForever19]

3 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

Well, Oliver might bring a 3rd , or for sake of argument let's say second.

 

Would you rather have Oliver in a contract year, probably going to be a good year unless he is completely incapable, and a 3rd for compensatory pick.

 

Or, trade him for a 2nd this year?

 

I'd take my chances on a monster year knowing I won't pay him regardless and take the 3rd on top of it.

 

Players on the last year of their contract don't fetch much. We absolutely wouldn't get a 2nd for Oliver and we'd be lucky to get a 3rd.

[Southern_Bills]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Players on the last year of their contract don't fetch much. We absolutely wouldn't get a 2nd for Oliver and we'd be lucky to get a 3rd.

 

I don't think they could either unless Oliver agreed to an extension while being traded, which he wouldn't.

 

I was just making a best case scenario for the trade, and keeping him at this point still makes more sense.

[Einstein's Dog]

9 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

I don't think they could either unless Oliver agreed to an extension while being traded, which he wouldn't.

 

I was just making a best case scenario for the trade, and keeping him at this point still makes more sense.

It happens, just need the contract done prior.

 

So maybe Beane is cooking up the 3 way trade, DHop (and AZ eats $4M of the $19M) for Oliver, and then AZ is trading Oliver to Houston for a 2nd (where Houston has reworked his contract to include an extension).  Something like that.

 

 

[Southern_Bills]

6 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

It happens, just need the contract done prior.

 

So maybe Beane is cooking up the 3 way trade, DHop (and AZ eats $4M of the $19M) for Oliver, and then AZ is trading Oliver to Houston for a 2nd (where Houston has reworked his contract to include an extension).  Something like that.

 

 

 

I would be ecstatic about that, just because I think Dhop > Oliver in any capacity on the field this year.