Wr Overload and what really needs to get done

[NastyNateSoldiers]

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand . It’s borderline annoying and can’t help but think these guys don’t know anything about football . If u look at the last 25 seasons or even more u will see plenty of teams have won the Lombardi with less WR talent then what the Bills currently have. This idea that we need a Wr in a horrible yr for that position in this draft is insanity to me. Most of these guys are slot type Wrs and u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 
 

I’ve been doing some research on Super Bowl winning teams and the most common denominator of those winning teams other then QB is in the trenches the lines so to speak and other then that it’s the identity of those teams. Those teams for the most part if not all had a physical identity and a aggressive mentality scheme wise . We definitely know the Bills are not Super bowl caliber in the trenches and we are definitely not Super Bowl caliber in physicality or schematically.
 

With that all being said i believe the Bills should attack this draft in the trenches and the good news is it’s not a bad yr for Oline or DEs . I know I know we’ve wasted pks on Basham and Epenesa recently but I hate to say it we need to keep drafting edge or even interior players on defense and on offense with need more offensive line.

 

To quote Doug Whaley the Bills have put themselves in somewhat a purgatory position when it comes to the lines the players they have are not bad enough to be outright replaced but also not good enough to be the difference in a Super Bowl caliber team. We are basically middle of the pack in those spots and middle of the pack doesn’t get the job done. It’s on McBeane now to identify these needs and realize we must get much better in those areas and to cancel out the noise from the Bills fans and media about going Wr early in the draft and continue to build at the LOS. 

[78thealltimegreat]

30 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand . It’s borderline annoying and can’t help but think these guys don’t know anything about football . If u look at the last 25 seasons or even more u will see plenty of teams have won the Lombardi with less WR talent then what the Bills currently have. This idea that we need a Wr in a horrible yr for that position in this draft is insanity to me. Most of these guys are slot type Wrs and u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 
 

I’ve been doing some research on Super Bowl winning teams and the most common denominator of those winning teams other then QB is in the trenches the lines so to speak and other then that it’s the identity of those teams. Those teams for the most part if not all had a physical identity and a aggressive mentality scheme wise . We definitely know the Bills are not Super bowl caliber in the trenches and we are definitely not Super Bowl caliber in physicality or schematically.
 

With that all being said i believe the Bills should attack this draft in the trenches and the good news is it’s not a bad yr for Oline or DEs . I know I know we’ve wasted pks on Basham and Epenesa recently but I hate to say it we need to keep drafting edge or even interior players on defense and on offense with need more offensive line.

 

To quote Doug Whaley the Bills have put themselves in somewhat a purgatory position when it comes to the lines the players they have are not bad enough to be outright replaced but also not good enough to be the difference in a Super Bowl caliber team. We are basically middle of the pack in those spots and middle of the pack doesn’t get the job done. It’s on McBeane now to identify these needs and realize we must get much better in those areas and to cancel out the noise from the Bills fans and media about going Wr early in the draft and continue to build at the LOS. 

I’d be careful quoting arguably the worst GM in recent Bills memory. 

The problem is they have invested heavy in multiple high picks and money resources in the defense and they keep neglecting offense this needs to change. They need another impact receiver and only have one TE on the roster out of this draft. They also need another starter caliber tackle. 
Beane has lost the benefit of the doubt anymore. Even the National media is starting to call him out and he knows it. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Just now, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’d be careful quoting arguably the worst GM in recent Bills memory. 

The problem is they have invested heavy in multiple high picks and money resources in the defense and they keep neglecting offense this needs to change. They need another impact receiver and only have one TE on the roster out of this draft. They also need another starter caliber tackle. 
Beane has lost the benefit of the doubt anymore. Even the National media is starting to call him out and he knows it. 

That’s the problem just because u missed on a few guys it compounds to missing on yr right guys. Beane has also missed on Cody Ford and Spencer Brown as well as Tommy Doyle but u failed to mention that when it comes to taking a Tackle. 

6 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’d be careful quoting arguably the worst GM in recent Bills memory. 

The problem is they have invested heavy in multiple high picks and money resources in the defense and they keep neglecting offense this needs to change. They need another impact receiver and only have one TE on the roster out of this draft. They also need another starter caliber tackle. 
Beane has lost the benefit of the doubt anymore. Even the National media is starting to call him out and he knows it. 

There’s other rounds in the draft for Wr and TE but at the top of the draft we need to go Oline or Dline especially since that’s the strength of this draft. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand

Dibiase is worse and it't not just them, its 90% of the fanbase.   Going back to when the Bills traded for TO, there has been a weird obsession with the WR position.  Could the Bills upgrade the #2, yes they can.  They also can upgrade #2 TE, RT, LB, Edge not to mention they have 0 DT's signed after this year.  WR is not the #1 need no matter what anyone says.  They are trying to make the #2 offense in yards, points, third down conversions better...all they will really to is redistribute receptions.

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand . It’s borderline annoying and can’t help but think these guys don’t know anything about football . If u look at the last 25 seasons or even more u will see plenty of teams have won the Lombardi with less WR talent then what the Bills currently have. This idea that we need a Wr in a horrible yr for that position in this draft is insanity to me. Most of these guys are slot type Wrs and u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 
 

I’ve been doing some research on Super Bowl winning teams and the most common denominator of those winning teams other then QB is in the trenches the lines so to speak and other then that it’s the identity of those teams. Those teams for the most part if not all had a physical identity and a aggressive mentality scheme wise . We definitely know the Bills are not Super bowl caliber in the trenches and we are definitely not Super Bowl caliber in physicality or schematically.
 

With that all being said i believe the Bills should attack this draft in the trenches and the good news is it’s not a bad yr for Oline or DEs . I know I know we’ve wasted pks on Basham and Epenesa recently but I hate to say it we need to keep drafting edge or even interior players on defense and on offense with need more offensive line.

 

To quote Doug Whaley the Bills have put themselves in somewhat a purgatory position when it comes to the lines the players they have are not bad enough to be outright replaced but also not good enough to be the difference in a Super Bowl caliber team. We are basically middle of the pack in those spots and middle of the pack doesn’t get the job done. It’s on McBeane now to identify these needs and realize we must get much better in those areas and to cancel out the noise from the Bills fans and media about going Wr early in the draft and continue to build at the LOS. 

Agree completely.  Depending who is there, OL/DT/DE/WR should all be in play 1st 2 rounds.  Then, add TE and MLB to that list.

 

We need a good slot WR, that can create separation/RAC ability.  Shakir hasn't shown hes ready yet, and Harty is a dart throw.  But unless a premier guy slides to 27, this can be filled in the 2nd-3rd rounds.

 

Then in a deep TE class, a #2 TE can be found in the 4th/5th round.  We barely utilize Knox enough, bc our oline needs constant help, and people want another high-end TE.  Not likely, and a big shift in offensive strategy.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just to be clear, we don’t need to go “this position” or “that position.” It is 100% dependent on the players available at “this position” or “that position.” If, for example, JSN is somehow on the board, WR is very appealing. If, for example, Darnell Wright is on the board, OT is very appealing. The position is irrelevant. The player is what determines that.

[Solomon Grundy]

20 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Dibiase is worse

👍

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’d be careful quoting arguably the worst GM in recent Bills memory. 

The problem is they have invested heavy in multiple high picks and money resources in the defense and they keep neglecting offense this needs to change. They need another impact receiver and only have one TE on the roster out of this draft. They also need another starter caliber tackle. 
Beane has lost the benefit of the doubt anymore. Even the National media is starting to call him out and he knows it. 

Totally agree. It’s on Beane to fix this. 
 

Also…it’s funny to me that the OP says the WR talk has gotten out of hand is “borderline annoying”. I’ve honestly never been more annoyed than this year hearing about MLB and Jack Campbell in particular. That is what has gotten COMPLETELY out of hand IMO. As if our future successes are tied to one guy in particular, and a MLB at that. I’ve said it in numerous posts…a MLB scares no team. In fact, I think teams like the chiefs, bengals, jets, and dolphins HOPE we go that route early. The trust is…no team wants us to get weapons for Allen. That’s what will get us over the hump. And I really feel like Beane knows this after last season. 

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

That’s the problem just because u missed on a few guys it compounds to missing on yr right guys. Beane has also missed on Cody Ford and Spencer Brown as well as Tommy Doyle but u failed to mention that when it comes to taking a Tackle. 

There’s other rounds in the draft for Wr and TE but at the top of the draft we need to go Oline or Dline especially since that’s the strength of this draft. 

There are other rounds for oline and dline too. Why is everyone so programmed to believe we can’t get weapons early?  To me it doesn’t matter where the “strengths” are. If you identify your guy, go get him no matter what. 

[BillMafia716ix]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand . It’s borderline annoying and can’t help but think these guys don’t know anything about football . If u look at the last 25 seasons or even more u will see plenty of teams have won the Lombardi with less WR talent then what the Bills currently have. This idea that we need a Wr in a horrible yr for that position in this draft is insanity to me. Most of these guys are slot type Wrs and u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 
 

I’ve been doing some research on Super Bowl winning teams and the most common denominator of those winning teams other then QB is in the trenches the lines so to speak and other then that it’s the identity of those teams. Those teams for the most part if not all had a physical identity and a aggressive mentality scheme wise . We definitely know the Bills are not Super bowl caliber in the trenches and we are definitely not Super Bowl caliber in physicality or schematically.
 

With that all being said i believe the Bills should attack this draft in the trenches and the good news is it’s not a bad yr for Oline or DEs . I know I know we’ve wasted pks on Basham and Epenesa recently but I hate to say it we need to keep drafting edge or even interior players on defense and on offense with need more offensive line.

 

To quote Doug Whaley the Bills have put themselves in somewhat a purgatory position when it comes to the lines the players they have are not bad enough to be outright replaced but also not good enough to be the difference in a Super Bowl caliber team. We are basically middle of the pack in those spots and middle of the pack doesn’t get the job done. It’s on McBeane now to identify these needs and realize we must get much better in those areas and to cancel out the noise from the Bills fans and media about going Wr early in the draft and continue to build at the LOS. 

I stopped listening to WGR a long time ago. They are just fan boys with no real insight. Me personally…the front 7 of the defense is far more important than a WR. ILB or DT should be our priority in the first round. 

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand . It’s borderline annoying and can’t help but think these guys don’t know anything about football . If u look at the last 25 seasons or even more u will see plenty of teams have won the Lombardi with less WR talent then what the Bills currently have. This idea that we need a Wr in a horrible yr for that position in this draft is insanity to me. Most of these guys are slot type Wrs and u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 
 

I’ve been doing some research on Super Bowl winning teams and the most common denominator of those winning teams other then QB is in the trenches the lines so to speak and other then that it’s the identity of those teams. Those teams for the most part if not all had a physical identity and a aggressive mentality scheme wise . We definitely know the Bills are not Super bowl caliber in the trenches and we are definitely not Super Bowl caliber in physicality or schematically.
 

With that all being said i believe the Bills should attack this draft in the trenches and the good news is it’s not a bad yr for Oline or DEs . I know I know we’ve wasted pks on Basham and Epenesa recently but I hate to say it we need to keep drafting edge or even interior players on defense and on offense with need more offensive line.

 

To quote Doug Whaley the Bills have put themselves in somewhat a purgatory position when it comes to the lines the players they have are not bad enough to be outright replaced but also not good enough to be the difference in a Super Bowl caliber team. We are basically middle of the pack in those spots and middle of the pack doesn’t get the job done. It’s on McBeane now to identify these needs and realize we must get much better in those areas and to cancel out the noise from the Bills fans and media about going Wr early in the draft and continue to build at the LOS. 

 

The way other Super Bowl teams have been constructed is irrelevant.

The Bills run 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR) probably 70% of the time, and are one of the most pass-heavy teams in the NFL.  There is a reason people are pushing for adding talent at Wide Receiver.

 

Many people who study the Bills on film believe - and have believed since about mid-season last year - that our primary inconsistency on offense was tied heavily to poor production from the slot receiver position.  Regain control over the short-middle of the field, and you will see less turnovers from Josh Allen and better production from Gabe Davis down the sideline.

 

You won't get an argument from me about drafting O-Line.  And considering the depth at Defensive End in the draft, I won't be upset if we add another guy at that position either.  But just because teams like the Chiefs got away with sub-par talent at WR doesn't mean we can do the same.  

 

 

[gonzo1105]

47 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just to be clear, we don’t need to go “this position” or “that position.” It is 100% dependent on the players available at “this position” or “that position.” If, for example, JSN is somehow on the board, WR is very appealing. If, for example, Darnell Wright is on the board, OT is very appealing. The position is irrelevant. The player is what determines that.

No there are people in the local media and the fan base that are deadset that we have to take a WR at 27 no matter what is on the board. Don’t care about anything else. Recommend something else and your a moron 

[papazoid]

isn't this a copy cat league ?

 

KC has the #1 TE and #3 OL

 

improve the OL/TE  and you help BOTH pass and run

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I realize the Bills have needs obviously every team has needs and no team has ever won the Super Bowl with a perfect team. Jeremy White and WGR have lead the Wr train this off-season and I feel it’s gotten out of hand . It’s borderline annoying and can’t help but think these guys don’t know anything about football . If u look at the last 25 seasons or even more u will see plenty of teams have won the Lombardi with less WR talent then what the Bills currently have. This idea that we need a Wr in a horrible yr for that position in this draft is insanity to me. Most of these guys are slot type Wrs and u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 
 

I’ve been doing some research on Super Bowl winning teams and the most common denominator of those winning teams other then QB is in the trenches the lines so to speak and other then that it’s the identity of those teams. Those teams for the most part if not all had a physical identity and a aggressive mentality scheme wise . We definitely know the Bills are not Super bowl caliber in the trenches and we are definitely not Super Bowl caliber in physicality or schematically.
 

With that all being said i believe the Bills should attack this draft in the trenches and the good news is it’s not a bad yr for Oline or DEs . I know I know we’ve wasted pks on Basham and Epenesa recently but I hate to say it we need to keep drafting edge or even interior players on defense and on offense with need more offensive line.

 

To quote Doug Whaley the Bills have put themselves in somewhat a purgatory position when it comes to the lines the players they have are not bad enough to be outright replaced but also not good enough to be the difference in a Super Bowl caliber team. We are basically middle of the pack in those spots and middle of the pack doesn’t get the job done. It’s on McBeane now to identify these needs and realize we must get much better in those areas and to cancel out the noise from the Bills fans and media about going Wr early in the draft and continue to build at the LOS. 

 

 

Some of the best slot WRs in the league and where they were drafted:

 

 

Tyler Boyd 2nd round

Christian Kirk 2nd round

Randall Cobb 2nd round

Jerry Jeudy 1st round

Chase Claypool 2nd round

Parris Campbell 2nd round

Curtis Samuel 2nd round

Cooper Kupp 4th round but would have been a fantastic value well into the top half of the 1st

Deebo Samuel (33 of 43 in the slot last year)  2nd round

 

It just simply ain't so that you don't draft slots in the first or second. They're rare in the first, but most of the best of them came precisely in the 2nd.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

25 minutes ago, papazoid said:

isn't this a copy cat league ?

 

KC has the #1 TE and #3 OL

 

improve the OL/TE  and you help BOTH pass and run

I believe we have a difference making TE the problem is he’s not featured in this offense. Knox should be the #2 guy in targets on this offense. Dorsey has to diagram more plays for Knox and u will see the difference that would make

[CaptnCoke11]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I believe we have a difference making TE the problem is he’s not featured in this offense. Knox should be the #2 guy in targets on this offense. Dorsey has to diagram more plays for Knox and u will see the difference that would make

Top end athlete but not really a difference maker on the field.  Way to inconsistent hands 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Some of the best slot WRs in the league and where they were drafted:

 

 

Tyler Boyd 2nd round

Christian Kirk 2nd round

Randall Cobb 2nd round

Jerry Jeudy 1st round

Chase Claypool 2nd round

Parris Campbell 2nd round

Curtis Samuel 2nd round

Cooper Kupp 4th round but would have been a fantastic value well into the top half of the 1st

Deebo Samuel (33 of 43 in the slot last year)  2nd round

 

It just simply ain't so that you don't draft slots in the first or second. They're rare in the first, but most of the best of them came precisely in the 2nd.

Half these guys ain’t even all that good if u ask my opinion . Claypool, C Samuel & Campbell should never been 2nd rd pks. 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

That’s the problem just because u missed on a few guys it compounds to missing on yr right guys. Beane has also missed on Cody Ford and Spencer Brown as well as Tommy Doyle but u failed to mention that when it comes to taking a Tackle. 

There’s other rounds in the draft for Wr and TE but at the top of the draft we need to go Oline or Dline especially since that’s the strength of this draft. 

 

 

There's no reason to mention failures when it comes to picking the same position again.

 

Every GM who's been around more than about a year has missed a bunch of picks. It happens. It's absolutely inevitable. And making one bad pick at one position isn't good or even reasonable evidence that you won't do well the next time you pick there.

 

Oh, and Tommy Doyle isn't a missed pick by any stretch of the imagination. He's a 5th rounder, still on the team as a backup. That's what you would expect.

 

Nor Spencer Brown. We simply don't know yet about him, with the back injury.

 

Cody Ford? Yeah, absolutely. A failure. But not the other two.

 

 

5 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Half these guys ain’t even all that good if u ask my opinion . Claypool, C Samuel & Campbell should never been 2nd rd pks. 

 

 

 

To remind you, this what you said:

 

You:

3 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

 u don’t take slot Wrs in the first or second rd of the draft. 

 

 

As wrong as you can get.

 

You can and you do. It's where most of the best slots come from.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Thurman#1

[mjt328]

20 minutes ago, papazoid said:

isn't this a copy cat league ?

 

KC has the #1 TE and #3 OL

 

improve the OL/TE  and you help BOTH pass and run

 

Copying other teams isn't always the best path to success.

The last three Super Bowl champions (Chiefs, Rams, Bucs) had totally different strengths, and were built in completely different ways.

 

Ken Dorsey should be building primarily around the strengths of Josh Allen, and Brandon Beane should be stockpiling talent that fits the scheme/system that Dorsey creates.  Neither should be worried about how the Chiefs achieved their success.

 

Having a great O-Line should always be a priority, regardless of system.  But just because Travis Kelce is the perfect fit for Patrick Mahomes, doesn't mean our offense needs another elite TE to succeed.  Josh Allen's greatest success has always come with a top-level slot receiver (Cole Beasley) as his safety outlet.

 

10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Some of the best slot WRs in the league and where they were drafted:

 

Tyler Boyd 2nd round

Christian Kirk 2nd round

Randall Cobb 2nd round

Jerry Jeudy 1st round

Chase Claypool 2nd round

Parris Campbell 2nd round

Curtis Samuel 2nd round

Cooper Kupp 4th round but would have been a fantastic value well into the top half of the 1st

Deebo Samuel (33 of 43 in the slot last year)  2nd round

 

It just simply ain't so that you don't draft slots in the first or second. They're rare in the first, but most of the best of them came precisely in the 2nd.

 

Drafting trends have also changed over the years.

The more teams are running 3-WR sets and spread offenses, the more they are putting a value on slot receivers.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

45 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

The way other Super Bowl teams have been constructed is irrelevant.

The Bills run 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR) probably 70% of the time, and are one of the most pass-heavy teams in the NFL.  There is a reason people are pushing for adding talent at Wide Receiver.

 

Many people who study the Bills on film believe - and have believed since about mid-season last year - that our primary inconsistency on offense was tied heavily to poor production from the slot receiver position.  Regain control over the short-middle of the field, and you will see less turnovers from Josh Allen and better production from Gabe Davis down the sideline.

 

You won't get an argument from me about drafting O-Line.  And considering the depth at Defensive End in the draft, I won't be upset if we add another guy at that position either.  But just because teams like the Chiefs got away with sub-par talent at WR doesn't mean we can do the same.  

 

 

It’s definitely relevant especially when 90% of the teams are winning in the trenches and Obviously great QBs . We have to get better in those areas no doubt . The good thing is it’s a strong draft in those positions so we got to go BPA on either line unless someone very highly rated falls to us at another difference making position. 

[Thurman#1]

Oh, CeeDee Lamb, with 867 slot yards, also, 

         1st round.