The Allen-Diggs Relationship in Decline?

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

SG is an emotional competitor.  Nothing that strapping them on fresh for training camp won't cure.  

 

He is.  I gained more respect during the Bengals night game.  The team was emotionally stunned and he tried to fire everyone up.  

[gladiator]

18 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

Surprised , a little at Diggs.. I think he is over whatever issues, if any he had with Allen.. But show up at the non-mandatories.. if he is going to be a distraction.. dump him.. 

No way, he's one of our captions. What a great role model.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

The part where Allen said "he is one of my favorite people on the planet" has me PARTICULARLY concerned.

 

Josh is a 26-year-old kid.  At times, I suspect he acts his age: childish, immature, and incomplete in his wisdom and understanding of people.

 

At other times, I'm sure he works on being a good leader.  He tries to be positive and lift people up.  He's also smart enough to not say stupid things to the media.

 

I've got to wonder if he was entirely authentic when he said Diggs is one of his favorite people.  Maybe he was just trying to say the right thing.  

 

I don't see a raging fire but if you don't see smoke, you're not looking.  

 

I really hope I'm wrong and the bromance continues - as well as the production on the field.  But my confidence level is not 100%.  If yours is, great.    

[Inigo Montoya]

I like Diggs but he acted like a jerk at the end of the season.  Friendship is cheap when times are good. Leadership is easy when things are going your way.  It's when things fall apart that real friends and leaders step up.  Diggs bailed on Allen and his team mates after the Bengals game and that was a punk move on his part.

 

That's not how "Josh's brother" and a team captain should act.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He is.  I gained more respect during the Bengals night game.  The team was emotionally stunned and he tried to fire everyone up.  

 

He was the only player that was ready and willing to continue the game. Which would have been the right mindset to save the season. But the players are human to and the right thing to do was cancel.

 

But it stood out that he was ready to go, and the only one ready to go.

 

If you look back at our only possession, he was also one of the few Bills players ready to bring the heat to the Bengals like they were trying to bring to us. Going into contact hard after making a catch. Everyone else was flat.

5 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I like Diggs but he acted like a jerk at the end of the season.  Friendship is cheap when times are good. Leadership is easy when things are going your way.  It's when things fall apart that real friends and leaders step up.  Diggs bailed on Allen and his team mates after the Bengals game and that was a punk move on his part.

 

That's not how "Josh's brother" and a team captain should act.

 

The game was over, the season was over, he left.

 

What does everyone want him to do? Hang out and give everyone goodbye smooches for trying so hard during the first half of the season?

 

There was nothing left to do or say at that point.

 

I'd say the way he was 1 of only 2-3 players that actually showed up to play hard in that Bengals playoff game, the team bailed on HIM more than he bailed on the team after the game.

 

 

Fans need to get over it. I'm sure the team has.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I dont know if Allen has it in him to manage Diggs - either through off-field words or on-field chatter. For all the good that Allen does on the field, I rarely see him consoling an O player for messing up on a play, egging on the OL for poor protection or having words with divas like Diggs to calm him down. I would have liked to see some more interactivity of Allen with his supporting cast because he has earned the right to give them a talking-to. 

 

Well, first off, are you attending every game or the majority of them, and focusing on Allen the whole time?  The TV doesn't show all sideline interactions, and we don't know what's said in the huddle.  The Coach's Film focuses on the field of play just before snap, to the whistle.  So I'm not sure how you'd know the extent to which Allen is consoling, firing off at, or calming other players during the game?  When things aren't going well, though, he does need to look at the tablet with his coaches/fellow QB

 

Second, as you point out, on-field is only one aspect of managing relationships with players. Off-field may be equally or more important.  I know that Beasley and Allen spent a lot of time in 2019 going over film together to get on the same page "if they play us this way, how will we respond?" and Allen continually brought up that Beasley sees the field like a QB.  Managing his relationship with Diggs may be as simple as some extra time together watching film, to make sure Diggs understands what the play looked like from Allen's perspective (maybe he wasn't open when Allen had a window to throw, or when he was open Allen had to flush out of the pocket).   

 

Most people are complicated, and sometimes if a guy is seeing things from just his perspective giving him a broader perspective can help.

 

[Just in Atlanta]

18 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

We all know that Allen and Diggs are/were best friends.  We also all know what happened with Diggs at the end of the last season.

 

Recently, Allen was asked if his relationship with Diggs was still solid.  He responded, "Absolutely...  Stef's gonng be Stef.  I love the guy. He is one of my favorite people on this planet. He is so fiery, so competitive. He wants the ball in his hands 24/7, and I’m never going to not like a guy like that. He wants what’s best for the team.”

 

To me, that sounds a lot like coach-speak.  Allen keeps it positive, as he should.  But he never actually says that he and Diggs are still talking, hanging out, playing games together, acting like brothers from different mothers...  And his comment, "I'm never going to dislike a guy like that" came off as a little odd to me.  Who said anything about disliking?  Do you have reasons to dislike Stef that you're overcoming?  

 

I'm not going to churches, temples, synagogues, and mosques, bawling my eyes out, earnestly praying for divine intervention for them to patch things up.  But I do have some concerns about their relationship this year.  I hope those concerns are wrong.  

Would you feel better if they waltzed or karaoked "Love Lift Us Up Where We Belong" together"?

 

Goodness, this is a great, direct quote.

 

If it sets anyone's mind at ease, I know for a fact Allen and Diggs drink orange juice directly from the same carton and wrote BFF on each others' playbooks. 

 

Regular season can't get here quickly enough. 

[Billz4ever]

15 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Josh is a 26-year-old kid.  At times, I suspect he acts his age: childish, immature, and incomplete in his wisdom and understanding of people.

 

At other times, I'm sure he works on being a good leader.  He tries to be positive and lift people up.  He's also smart enough to not say stupid things to the media.

 

I've got to wonder if he was entirely authentic when he said Diggs is one of his favorite people.  Maybe he was just trying to say the right thing.  

 

I don't see a raging fire but if you don't see smoke, you're not looking.  

 

I really hope I'm wrong and the bromance continues - as well as the production on the field.  But my confidence level is not 100%.  If yours is, great.    

 

I still can't understand how you're dwelling on what happened in the CIncy game and months later still trying to turn this into something like Diggs still has issues with Josh.

 

I honestly don't know how you've reached this conclusion simply based on that one night.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The game was over, the season was over, he left.

 

What does everyone want him to do? Hang out and give everyone goodbye smooches for trying so hard during the first half of the season?

 

There was nothing left to do or say at that point.

 

Get over it. I'm sure the team has.

 

Disagree. 

 

I didn't see Diggs sitting next to Josh in the post game taking any responsibility for the game.  No one else on the team ran out of the building like it was on fire afterwards, particularly no one with a "C" on their jersey.  I was a sergeant in the airborne infantry.  When you have a "brother" who bails on you when the going is tough you don't forget it.  You can mend fences and move on, but you don't forget it.  Like I said, friendship and loyalty are cheap when things are going good.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Disagree. 

 

I didn't see Diggs sitting next to Josh in the post game taking any responsibility for the game.  No one else on the team ran out of the building like it was on fire afterwards, particularly no one with a "C" on their jersey.  I was a sergeant in the airborne infantry.  When you have a "brother" who bails on you when the going is tough you don't forget it.  You can mend fences and move on, but you don't forget it.  Like I said, friendship and loyalty are cheap when things are going good.

 

 

the going was tough DURING THE GAME. What you are referring to is after the "war" is already over and the guy just wants to go home. He bailed on no one. He was one of the only players leading the charge during the game, when it actually counted. Everyone else bailed on HIM. Josh included.

 

The second that game clock hit :00 he's not beholden to anyone. The entire team should have been kicked out of the building immediately at that whistle for how they performed.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Logic]

30 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Josh is a 26-year-old kid.  At times, I suspect he acts his age: childish, immature, and incomplete in his wisdom and understanding of people.

 

At other times, I'm sure he works on being a good leader.  He tries to be positive and lift people up.  He's also smart enough to not say stupid things to the media.

 

I've got to wonder if he was entirely authentic when he said Diggs is one of his favorite people.  Maybe he was just trying to say the right thing.  

 

I don't see a raging fire but if you don't see smoke, you're not looking.  

 

I really hope I'm wrong and the bromance continues - as well as the production on the field.  But my confidence level is not 100%.  If yours is, great.    

I think there are things that one can say if they're just trying to put on a "good soldier" face for the media or give canned "player/coach speak". 

I don't think "I love that guy. He is one of my favorite people on the planet" is one of those things.

I DO think there was some animosity and hard feelings at times last year. Both Allen and Diggs are ultimate competitors and alphas. When things are going well, it's all smiles and special handshakes. When things AREN'T going well, I expect there to be a little bit of clashing from time to time. I would not label my confidence level at "100%". I WOULD say, however, that I think people read far too much into social media and occasional player tiffs and often tend to make a mountain out of a molehill. 

When and if a clear an undeniable reason for concern is given, I'll be concerned. Until then, I just don't care about all the "smoke", or about trying to read the Tarot cards on a guy like Stefon Diggs, who is cryptic and moody. 

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

the going was tough DURING THE GAME. What you are referring to is after the "war" is already over and the guy just wants to go home. He bailed on no one. He was one of the only players leading the charge during the game, when it actually counted. Everyone else bailed on HIM. Josh included.

 

The second that game clock hit :00 he's not beholden to anyone. The entire team should have been kicked out of the building immediately at that whistle for how they performed.

 

 

When Cincy went up 14-0, the game was essentially over.  Knox even said that let all the wind out of their sails.  Diggs was the only guy I saw trying to fire other players up.  Blame it on all the stressors that built up over the season or whatever excuse they want. The bottom line is we all saw this team play their worst ball of the season, in a win or go home game, and the only guy that really seemed pissed about that was Diggs.  

 

Give me ten more of that guy, please.

[Bob in STL]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

 

When Cincy went up 14-0, the game was essentially over.  Knox even said that let all the wind out of their sails.  Diggs was the only guy I saw trying to fire other players up.  Blame it on all the stressors that built up over the season or whatever excuse they want. The bottom line is we all saw this team play their worst ball of the season, in a win or go home game, and the only guy that really seemed pissed about that was Diggs.  

 

Give me ten more of that guy, please.

Give me 10 more players that do something about it.   
 

Being pissed is a normal reaction.  Yelling on the sideline at your QB  and storming out afterwards is not leadership.  It didn’t help anyone.  

Edited April 20, 2023 by Bob in STL

[Billz4ever]

22 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Give me 10 more players that do something about it.   

 

He was trying to do something about it.  When Cincy went up 14-0, he was trying to keep guy's heads in the game and get them fired up.  

 

It's not Diggs' fault if the rest of them check-out and throw in the towel.  Could he have been less animated about it?  Sure, but as the players all said, that's Diggs.

 

If they're over it, I don't know why fans and media are still trying to keep it alive.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Inigo Montoya]

58 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

the going was tough DURING THE GAME. What you are referring to is after the "war" is already over and the guy just wants to go home. He bailed on no one. He was one of the only players leading the charge during the game, when it actually counted.

 

The second that game clock hit :00 he's not beholden to anyone. The entire team should have been kicked out of the building immediately at that whistle for how they performed.

 

The Bills ran 42 passing plays vs the Bengals.  Josh was sacked once and hit 8 times by the defense during those plays.  That equates to Josh getting hit more than once every five drop backs. Josh also ran the ball on another 8 plays and took real shots getting tackled on many of them.   

 

Allen paid the price all day long for the horrific O-line play.  Dorsey didn't help him any either.  Josh was taking a beating all game long and then he gets called out by Diggs?  Diggs standing there screaming in Allen's face in front of the cameras and his team mates.  And Allen sat there and took it without saying a word.   That happened during the game, not after the game. 

 

Diggs doesn't have a problem doing a post game presser when he goes 8 for 125 and a TD does he?  After the worst loss of the season he let Josh go out there by himself and take the heat.  How many questions did Allen get asked about Diggs screaming at him in the post game presser?  How did Allen handle those questions?  In a manner befitting someone with a "C" on his uniform.  The complete opposite of how Diggs carried himself that day and how he has continued to act this post season.  Now he's a no show for the voluntary work outs.  There's some leadership for you.

 

I'm still glad Diggs is on the roster and I hope they can put this behind them, but don't think for a minute that Josh or his team mates will forget it.  Diggs was a jerk during the game, and he bailed on the team and Allen afterwards. 

 

Doc, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

🍻

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Inigo Montoya

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If you look back at our only possession, he was also one of the few Bills players ready to bring the heat to the Bengals like they were trying to bring to us. Going into contact hard after making a catch. Everyone else was flat.

 

I disagree with this

 

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The game was over, the season was over, he left.

What does everyone want him to do? Hang out and give everyone goodbye smooches for trying so hard during the first half of the season?

 

C'mon Man.  Yes, people are making way more of Diggs behavior after the game than it probably deserves.  It happened, that was last season, Move On.

 

But you're going too far in the opposite direction. 

 

Diggs wasn't the only player hitting hard in blocking or tackling or going into contact hard after a catch.  Yes, the team was flat, but let's not canonize Saint Diggs as the only player who was trying.  That isn't true.

As far as "what does everyone want him to do", we want him to fulfill his NFL-mandated responsibility for press availability.  In team sports, there's also an unwritten protocol for how players are expected to behave, after a loss as well as a win.  You listen to what the coaches have to say.  If you're a Captain, a leader on the team, you're there for your teammates if they need you.   Then you leave, not before.  We want him to fulfill those responsibilities, not flee the building and get fetched back by a backup practice squad player and not dip on his press availabilities and leave his team making explanations to the NFL.

So yeah, it's not just "the game was over, the season was over, he left".  He skated on his coaches, teammates, and (because of violating NFL regulations) the Bills FO. 

 

It happened, it's over, we move on, but in no universe is this "Leader of Men" behavior, good teammate behavior, or expected behavior in the NFL.

 

The Bills and the Bills players talking to the media are putting a positive "spin" on it, Good for Them, but they shouldn't have to.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

The complete opposite of how Diggs carried himself that day and how he has continued to act this post season.  Now he's a no show for the involuntary work outs.  

 

 

Why do people keep bringing this up?  It has been that way for the past couple seasons.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

the going was tough DURING THE GAME. What you are referring to is after the "war" is already over and the guy just wants to go home. He bailed on no one. He was one of the only players leading the charge during the game, when it actually counted. Everyone else bailed on HIM. Josh included.

 

The second that game clock hit :00 he's not beholden to anyone. The entire team should have been kicked out of the building immediately at that whistle for how they performed.

 

This is factually incorrect according to the NFL/NFLPA CBA.

 

The last sentence is fan ire speaking, but it's not how team sports work, either.

[DrDawkinstein]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I disagree with this

 

 

C'mon Man.  Yes, people are making way more of Diggs behavior after the game than it probably deserves.  It happened, that was last season, Move On.

 

But you're going too far in the opposite direction. 

 

Diggs wasn't the only player hitting hard in blocking or tackling or going into contact hard after a catch.  Yes, the team was flat, but let's not canonize Saint Diggs as the only player who was trying.  That isn't true.

As far as "what does everyone want him to do", we want him to fulfill his NFL-mandated responsibility for press availability.  In team sports, there's also an unwritten protocol for how players are expected to behave, after a loss as well as a win.  You listen to what the coaches have to say.  If you're a Captain, a leader on the team, you're there for your teammates if they need you.   Then you leave, not before.  We want him to fulfill those responsibilities, not flee the building and get fetched back by a backup practice squad player and not dip on his press availabilities and leave his team making explanations to the NFL.

So yeah, it's not just "the game was over, the season was over, he left".  He skated on his coaches, teammates, and (because of violating NFL regulations) the Bills FO. 

 

It happened, it's over, we move on, but in no universe is this "Leader of Men" behavior, good teammate behavior, or expected behavior in the NFL.

 

The Bills and the Bills players talking to the media are putting a positive "spin" on it, Good for Them, but they shouldn't have to.

 

Diggs, Milano, Edmunds were the only 3 that showed up ready to play playoff football. Who else you got?

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Well, first off, are you attending every game or the majority of them, and focusing on Allen the whole time?  The TV doesn't show all sideline interactions, and we don't know what's said in the huddle.  The Coach's Film focuses on the field of play just before snap, to the whistle.  So I'm not sure how you'd know the extent to which Allen is consoling, firing off at, or calming other players during the game?  When things aren't going well, though, he does need to look at the tablet with his coaches/fellow QB

 

 

 

I see every Bills game so I think if he was indeed interacting with his team mates when things werent going well, that would be on camera as well. no? I doubt that the cameras are intentionally pointed away if and when such interactions do happen. I dont profess to have made a psychological profile as clearly I have the data nor the skills to do so. However, I have seen Mahomes, Brady talk to players on occasion and see that as something Allen does not do.