Florio raises an excellent question:

[CincyBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

So obvious to see,  only Beane apologists cannot see he has done next to nothing this offseason.  Glad Mike called it

Bean is playing a high stakes poker game this season.  He's channeling 2019 in which he significant;y upgraded the Bills offensive talent by signing middle of the road guys (Brown & Beasley) or guys with injury issues (Morse). He also spent 3rd round picks on Knox & Motor that year and both of those guys impacted the offense as rookies. 

 

Flash forward to 2023 and Bean is doing the exact same thing.  If it works as well as it did in 2019 the Bills are a legit threat to win the Super Bowl and Bean will be NFL executive of the year.  If it blows up on him he may be hitting the road after the season.  And given the CAP situation I'm not sure Bean had any other options. Of course this assumes that the bulk of the draft picks will be offensive guys.

 

Look at it this way if just one of the two guards Bean brought in works out, if just one of the two WR's he brought in works out and Harris stays healthy and  upgrades the RB position Bean's gamble will pay off.  And honestly I don't think this is wishful thinking.  Wishful thinking would be that Harris is productive and stays healthy and BOTH new WR's and BOTH new Guards play great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bigK14094]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

A terrible point.

 

Josh Allen, Diggs, Dawkins and Morse are 4 of our top 5 cap hits in 2023. 
 

Anyone entertaining Florio saying some dumb ***** is also wrong.

This is Morse last year.  I am expecting a center to be drafted.  Better yet a center guard.

[RyanC883]

9 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is just dumb on Florios part.  The Bills are up against it as far as the cap goes because they’ve spent on Diggs, Miller, Milano, etc.  Buffalo has been spending!  

and drafting like crap.  And spending on JAGs all along the DL.  

[Billl]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

that's literally what this thread is about

The Bills were smack dab in between the Chiefs and Bengals prior to the restructure in terms of percentage of the cap spent on offense.  Lack of spending on offense as a percentage of the cap isn’t why they scored 10 points against the Bengals.

 

I’ll agree that Beane has a fundamental flaw with the way he builds his rosters, but it has nothing to do with offense versus defense. People on this board talk often about having “stars and scrubs”.  That’s not what Beane does.  He continually overpays players who are pretty good but not great in order to have a complete roster.  That simply isn’t sustainable when you’ve got a QB on a top of the market contract.  Ideally, you want to find your stars and then draft well enough to not have to rely on scrubs.  

 

That isn’t an option when you draft as poorly as Beane has since 2019.  The result is that he’s way overpaying a bunch of JAGs.  Taking Allen and Diggs (stars) out of the equation, the top cap hits this season will be White, Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Hyde, Johnson, and Jones.  That’s $81 million or 36% of the entire salary cap going towards mediocre production.  Beane’s failures come down to what nearly every GM’s fortune comes down to, his ability to draft well.  The Rams are the rare exception to the rule, and their success was fleeting to put it mildly.

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't understand these talking heads that always want to compare us to KC, but then completely miss on what makes KC's offense tick.

 

KC is just one example. The Bengals have invested like crazy in their WR corps. 49ers and Eagles invested like crazy in their offensive weapons (and had great OLs to boot). All of these teams were objectively closer to a Super Bowl win last year than we were. It isn't about following the exact strategy that KC did. The point is we are lacking in high end offensive talent around our QB compared to the teams that are in a tier above us.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by HappyDays

[Billl]

17 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

This is Morse last year.  I am expecting a center to be drafted.  Better yet a center guard.

It should have already been done.  In 2021, Beane took Basham.  The next two picks were Josh Myers and Creed Humphrey.  Then in 2022, he traded up to get Elam.  The next two picks were Tyler Smith and Tyler Linderbaum.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

43 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

His high draft capital and free agent signings have been heavily defense oriented. They just expect Josh to work miracles with the supporting cast and line. Player for player on that oline would any of these guys start for the chiefs or eagles? 

That’s just not true. Yes they have drafted defense high in the draft but the Bills felt they had QB, WR1, WR2, TE, and LT filled with young players. They weren’t drafting their replacements yet. It just so happens only 2 of those players were highly drafted. Although they traded a 1st for 1.

 

They drafted another OT high in the draft that didn’t work out, Cody Ford. By the time they got rid of him they drafted another OT in the 3rd that they like. So another starter not highly drafted.

 

So technically you have slot WR, OG, and RB open for competition. Positions that traditionally are filled later in the draft. 
 

It’s the right time to see WR drafted early. Interior OL is interesting because they signed Bates and McGovern now. I think it’s possible they draft IOL early but they could get one to develop later on. Morse could be in his final season with the Bills so a hole is opening.

 

Only issues I see is they didn’t have a good plan for replacing Beasley in the offense. They didn’t prepare for that. McKenzie showed well in spots but he couldn’t do the things Beasley did. Relying on Crowder with his injury history was a bad decision.

 

 

The OL overall is solid, Saffold was a mistake. Brown is a developing OT. Brown has as much physical talent as any 1st round OT. I don’t see them drafting his replacement yet. Bates and Morse are solid interior linemen. Dawkins is a consistently reliable LT. We’ll see about McGovern.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Dr. Who]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

The Bills were smack dab in between the Chiefs and Bengals prior to the restructure in terms of percentage of the cap spent on offense.  Lack of spending on offense as a percentage of the cap isn’t why they scored 10 points against the Bengals.

 

I’ll agree that Beane has a fundamental flaw with the way he builds his rosters, but it has nothing to do with offense versus defense. People on this board talk often about having “stars and scrubs”.  That’s not what Beane does.  He continually overpays players who are pretty good but not great in order to have a complete roster.  That simply isn’t sustainable when you’ve got a QB on a top of the market contract.  Ideally, you want to find your stars and then draft well enough to not have to rely on scrubs.  

 

That isn’t an option when you draft as poorly as Beane has since 2019.  The result is that he’s way overpaying a bunch of JAGs.  Taking Allen and Diggs (stars) out of the equation, the top cap hits this season will be White, Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Hyde, Johnson, and Jones.  That’s $81 million or 36% of the entire salary cap going towards mediocre production.  Beane’s failures come down to what nearly every GM’s fortune comes down to, his ability to draft well.  The Rams are the rare exception to the rule, and their success was fleeting to put it mildly.

I do think Beane needs to use more premium draft picks on offense, but his roster construction is a more fundamental problem. He overpays consistently for mediocre players, you're right there.

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, mjt328 said:

He does not raise an excellent question... at least in the way he phrased it.  He suggested that Allen is being underpaid, and now the Bills are sitting around with a bunch of extra money and refusing to spend it.  That is not true in the slightest.

 

It isn't about how much they've spent. It's where the money has been spent. People blaming Von Miller's contract as the problem are missing the point. Florio and Simms yesterday actually mentioned the Von Miller signing as a positive splash move.

 

The real problem is the contracts we've given to players like Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, Trent Murphy, Rodger Saffold, etc. All of their combined cap hits are much greater than the cap hit Miller has.

 

So the point is that the Bills should be more willing to make splash moves/signings for impact players, at the expense of certain positional depth.

 

None of these arguments are controversial. People are just misrepresenting what Florio said.

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He says:

 

"If I'm Josh Allen, and I'm on a team friendly deal, I'm saying to somebody: 'What the hell are you doing with all the money I left behind? Where's the beef? Why do I not have the help I need?' "

 

It's a REALLY good question. This team restructures Allen, and does what with it, exactly? Finds a cheap guard? Brings back AJ Klein?

This draft will tell us what the future's gonna look like. If they blow it (as they have in recent drafts) on defense, I think it's time for Allen to start making noise. And frankly, he has every right to.

So bunch of stuff here.

 

First off, what does he mean talking about “team friendly deal” and “money I left behind”?   In August 2021 when Allen signed, it was the 2nd biggest contract in NFL history (behind Mahomes) and had the most guaranteed money.  So at the time it was drafted and signed, it was very much aligned with market value for a top QB.  News flash, contracts go up,, and a contract that was at the top of the league in 2021 is gonna look like a bargain now.

 

It’s a fair point that the Bills have underinvested on defense relative to offense overall.  There was a really good article - I think in Buffalo Rumblings by Skarkrow - breaking down the draft investment using the trade value chart.  I think it did FA as well.  Fundamentally, while overall the draft investment of picks are roughly equal, the draft value (highest picks) are skewed towards D.   Similar skew in FA signings, I believe.  

 

Yet in terms of salary cap investment - of the top 6 cap hits this year, 4 are on offense (Allen, Diggs, Dawkins, Morse) and 2 are on defense (Tre White, Ed Oliver).  The next 6 are 5 on defense (Hyde, Johnson, Jones, Miller, Milano) and 1 on offense (Knox).  So top 12, 5 on offense, 7 on defense.  It’s not as though there isn’t siubstantial contract investment on offense.

 

It’s weird of Florio to single out “cheap guard” and “AJ Klein”.  Boettger was brought back on a VSB contract (cap charge of 2nd year player) and Klein is very likely to be close to minimum as well.  Every team makes these moves, veteran depth on minimum salary.  Overall in FA, the Bills offensive investment has outpaced its defensive investment.  One can argue as to whether or not Conner McGovern is a *good* guard or Deonte Harty a *good* receiver, but the Bills invested $31.85M of contract $$ in them vs. $15.5M in their top defensive FA signings, so “cheap” doesn’t seem like the right descriptive.

 

Last but not least, we have no idea the private conversations Josh has had with Beane and with McDermott.  He may already have “made noise” as far as what he sees as needs to take the next step.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’ll add this about investing in defense. The reason they invest in defense is because there’s just more players playing important snaps. They rotate 8 DL and play 3 CB’s. You need the depth because these guys play a lot of snaps.

 

 

[Beck Water]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

It should have already been done.  In 2021, Beane took Basham.  The next two picks were Josh Myers and Creed Humphrey.  Then in 2022, he traded up to get Elam.  The next two picks were Tyler Smith and Tyler Linderbaum.

 

I can’t disagree with the sentiment here.  

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Florios stated premise was the idea Allen should be upset because Allen gave them a "TEAM FRIENDLY" deal which is non-sense.

 

Every big QB deal eventually becomes team friendly unless the QB pulls a Carson Wentz. Right now Allen's cap hit is actually quite cheap relative to his value to the team.

 

You want to know something crazy? In real and dead cap space, the following players combined are taking up as much 2023 cap space as Josh Allen:

 

Tim Settle

Nyheim Hines

Siran Neal

Jordan Phillips (including dead money from 2022)

Rodger Saffold

OJ Howard

Matt Haack

Isaiah McKenzie

 

You'll note that only half of these players are still on the team.

 

This is the biggest failure of Beane's tenure. Not mediocre drafting. Rather, a tendency to pay well above a given player's actual value. A tendency to over focus on depth at the expense of top end talent.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Last but not least, we have no idea the private conversations Josh has had with Beane and with McDermott.  He may already have “made noise” as far as what he sees as needs to take the next step.

I think we already saw it with the McKenzie release. Josh said yesterday he wants to get back to “more familiar concepts” this year. I 100% believe he was talking about slot WR. Beane has publicly said slot didn’t go as planned last year. Crowder was supposed to take on the Beasley role with McKenzie playing his role.

 

It just so happens the top WRs in this draft are slot WRs. If they trade for Hopkins he can run all those routes as well.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’ll add this about investing in defense. The reason they invest in defense is because there’s just more players playing important snaps. They rotate 8 DL and play 3 CB’s. You need the depth because these guys play a lot of snaps.

 

 

 

This is actually a point I’ve been contemplating for a while.   DL rotation is foundational to McDermott’s defense.  I’m just uncertain how successful it actually can be to add difference-making players when you need, as you say, 8 or 9 DL who are good enough to see substantial snaps each game.

 

The 3 CB aren’t an issue IMHO.   You need 3 LB + 2 CB or 2 LB + 3 CB, the starters play almost every snap, I don’t think nickel CBs are more expensive than top LB.

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't think it's such a stretch to say this team has underachieved in the playoffs considering who we have at QB

 

Is this statement even controversial? Arguably the greatest QB stretch in playoff history ended after two games. What else needs to be said?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is actually a point I’ve been contemplating for a while.   DL rotation is foundational to McDermott’s defense.  I’m just uncertain how successful it actually can be to add difference-making players when you need, as you say, 8 or 9 DL who are good enough to see substantial snaps each game.

 

The 3 CB aren’t an issue IMHO.   You need 3 LB + 2 CB or 2 LB + 3 CB, the starters play almost every snap, I don’t think nickel CBs are more expensive than top LB.

Only 1 was drafted really high. If any develop into a stud elite player he isn’t coming off the field. There’s a lot of average on DL but it gets good overall results. The only problem is when you need a pass rush, average doesn’t get it done. 
 

Also about DB, they haven’t drafted much there either, so it balances out. They picked White in 2017 and then didn’t draft another in the 1st 2 rounds until 2022. For a team that plays nickel as a base that’s pretty low.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Should we have acquired von Miller when that money could have then be used eventually on OL and WR?

 

Yes. Signing Von Miller was a no brainer move. The pass rush was desperately in need of a difference maker, which everyone agreed with coming out of the 2022 divisional round loss.

 

Miller tearing his ACL was an unfortunate and unpredictable disaster. Even the people who were skeptical about his contract weren't skeptical about his level of play in 2023 or even 2024; they were worried that the 2025 and beyond part of the contract would become an albatross. Which was a fair concern, but accepting short term value for long term risk is the kind of move a team in the prime of its Super Bowl window should be willing to make. It's the same reason I'm all aboard the DeAndre Hopkins train.

 

Von Miller's contract is not the reason we aren't able to sign an offensive difference maker right now. It's all the other bottom of the roster names that I posted above. Those players are the albatross, not the highly productive pass rusher that happened to get injured in a way that can happen to anybody.

[Doc Brown]

If you look at it through the lens of Josh is giving a bit of a hometown discount so they can spend heavily on offense around him Florio can at least make a case.  I believe he's making the assumption we should skimp out on defense to upgrade our offense.  We've spent more draft capital on defense since he was drafted even if you take the Diggs trade into account.  In free agency we've invested about the same at both sides of the ball.

 

If you look at it through the lens that the Bills aren't doing everything they can to try to build a complete team that contends each year he couldn't be more wrong.  

 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

4 of their 5 biggest cap hits in 2023 are on offense.

Weapons my friend, weapons…, Still have below average talent on the O-line, and they still give it insufficient attention.