Florio raises an excellent question:

[BobbyC81]

11 hours ago, eball said:

Does Florio have any insight into what conversations Josh and/or his agent are or are not having with Beane and the Bills?

 

The answer to that question is "no."

 

Regardless, players don't run personnel departments.  Just ask Aaron Rodgers.

 

It’ll be hilarious if Green Bay trades Rodgers to the Jets for that first round pick that they want, and then use it to draft a wide receiver.

[Billz4ever]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

KC is just one example. The Bengals have invested like crazy in their WR corps. 49ers and Eagles invested like crazy in their offensive weapons (and had great OLs to boot). All of these teams were objectively closer to a Super Bowl win last year than we were. It isn't about following the exact strategy that KC did. The point is we are lacking in high end offensive talent around our QB compared to the teams that are in a tier above us.

 

What allowed Cincy the ability to get all the guys they've got there?  As Beane said, he doesn't want the team to be bad to the point where they are able to be in the draft position to be able to do that.

 

This complaining about past drafts is like crying over spilled milk.  It accomplishes nothing and is looking backwards instead of looking forwards, since that's all that matters now.

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Bean is playing a high stakes poker game this season.  He's channeling 2019 in which he significant;y upgraded the Bills offensive talent by signing middle of the road guys (Brown & Beasley) or guys with injury issues (Morse). He also spent 3rd round picks on Knox & Motor that year and both of those guys impacted the offense as rookies. 

 

Flash forward to 2023 and Bean is doing the exact same thing.  If it works as well as it did in 2019 the Bills are a legit threat to win the Super Bowl and Bean will be NFL executive of the year.  If it blows up on him he may be hitting the road after the season.  And given the CAP situation I'm not sure Bean had any other options. Of course this assumes that the bulk of the draft picks will be offensive guys.

 

Look at it this way if just one of the two guards Bean brought in works out, if just one of the two WR's he brought in works out and Harris stays healthy and  upgrades the RB position Bean's gamble will pay off.  And honestly I don't think this is wishful thinking.  Wishful thinking would be that Harris is productive and stays healthy and BOTH new WR's and BOTH new Guards play great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's utterly hilarious to watch people complain about the Bills off-season moves.  It's like they're totally oblivious to the cap situation and act like the Bills have $50 million to throw at the biggest named FAs every single year and then they get mad if the Bills aren't signing them.  Complete disconnect from reality.

[ganesh]

15 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is just dumb on Florios part.  The Bills are up against it as far as the cap goes because they’ve spent on Diggs, Miller, Milano, etc.  Buffalo has been spending!  

We have paid the following folks on Offense:

* Diggs

* Dawkins

* Knox

*. Morse 

 

Whereas on Defense:

* Von Miller

* Tre White 

* Poyer 

* Hyde 

* Milano

* Rosseau

* Ed Oliver 

* Jones

 

The problem for the Bills are that they are spending significant money on their Safeties, something most of the NFL teams don't do.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

We have paid the following folks on Offense:

* Diggs

* Dawkins

* Knox

*. Morse 

 

Whereas on Defense:

* Von Miller

* Tre White 

* Poyer 

* Hyde 

* Milano

* Rosseau

* Ed Oliver 

* Jones

 

The problem for the Bills are that they are spending significant money on their Safeties, something most of the NFL teams don't do.

 

You missed Josh Allen. We have "paid" five guys on offense. We have "paid" six on defense. Groot and Ed have not been paid. They are first round picks. Of course there is only one first round pick on offense - Josh. 

 

There are some legit resource allocation questions but as @FireChans has pointed out some of it is also about talent evaluation. They have had more whiffs on offense. From "paying" a $6m guard last year who was the worst starter on the team, to day two draft busts on O in Cody Ford and Zack Moss and this being a pivotal season for a third day two offensive player in Spencer Brown. 

 

So it is a combination of both. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

What allowed Cincy the ability to get all the guys they've got there?  As Beane said, he doesn't want the team to be bad to the point where they are able to be in the draft position to be able to do that.

 

This complaining about past drafts is like crying over spilled milk.  It accomplishes nothing and is looking backwards instead of looking forwards, since that's all that matters now.

It's utterly hilarious to watch people complain about the Bills off-season moves.  It's like they're totally oblivious to the cap situation and act like the Bills have $50 million to throw at the biggest named FAs every single year and then they get mad if the Bills aren't signing them.  Complete disconnect from reality.

To be fair, I believe there are disconnects from reality on both sides of the argument. Certainly the cap as it sat this year was restrictive. However there are still big dollar moves that Beane COULD have made (and still can) that for whatever reason they have chosen not to.

 

Using the Over The Cap estimates the Bills could still clear the following off the cap this year:

 

White restructure: $5.8M

Dawkins restructure: $6.4M

Morse restructure: $3.3M (and a Morse cut or trade saves $8M against the cap)

Bates restructure :$1.9M

 

Extensions for Jones and Taron Johnson clear a few more million off the cap this year.

 

And of course the ever popular fan obsession: Oliver trade: $10.7M

 

Now while I will agree that making all of these moves isn't in the longterm best interest of the team to wring our collective hand and cry poverty isn't completely true either. Understanding that Beane is planning for next year and the year after just as much as this year when it comes to cap space. But at some point just getting to the playoffs and being competitive isn't going to cut it for Pegula IMO. Not when he's watching the guy he coveted (and reportedly was talked out of getting by McDermott) in Mahomes bounce the Bills from the playoffs and winning championships. 

[mjd1001]

12 hours ago, Chaos said:

List 9 QBs teams would rather have than Allen. Please wear a dunce cap until you put your list together. 

Do you not read or you just dumb? I said he's probably top five, but I guess your man-worship of Allen is so great that you're just going to take offense to the first part of what I said and not read when I said something was even more probable than that.

 

Read what I said. I said he's likely a top 5 quarterback in this league. Don't just cherry pick something and then make a comment back to me because your fragile ego must need to do that.

Telling someone to put a dunce cap on is just a juvenile. You deserve this response

[RichRiderBills]

I agree w/ Florio to some extent, but I also like the route the Bills went. There's value in continuity and not hitting the panic button. 

 

Allen is well supported. I think this team loves Davis still, and also the stable of RBs they have. They also know w Miller back they can get back on track and I believe the plan is to right the wrong of last season. 

 

The Bills were a good team that beat the champs last year, even with our injuries. We can't over think the Bengals game. 

 

I think the story last year was a small group of players did not shape out the way they hoped; McKenzie and Crowder, Davis did not play consistent, Saffold was a liability and Brown did not take that big step. The Bills moves seem focused on rerolling most of the above, with the draft left go, and late free Agency for wild card/ trades / moves. 

 

I stand to think that adding a couple studs in the draft and we will be very good. 

 

Getting back to Florio, if I were the boss, I would have made a move for a top guard or maybe mcglinchy. The money there was not crazy and could have been done. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

And of course the ever popular fan obsession: Oliver trade: $10.7M

 

Or the less popular "Oliver extension."

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure why this is complicated to anyone. You roam in the wilderness for years hoping against hope that by luck or good scouting you can find a QB worthy of paying the really big bucks. Once you have one you lock him into a long time contract and then spend the next decade roaming around that same wilderness but this trying to vacuum up mid level veterans and ‘under paid’ rookies just so you can afford to keep that QB. It’s really that simple. For almost twenty years the Bills were in the first stage of wilderness roaming and now they’re in the second. (Time to turn some draft picks into some on the field contributors!  Get ‘er done!)

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, ganesh said:

We have paid the following folks on Offense:

* Diggs

* Dawkins

* Knox

*. Morse 

 

Whereas on Defense:

* Von Miller

* Tre White 

* Poyer 

* Hyde 

* Milano

* Rosseau

* Ed Oliver 

* Jones

 

The problem for the Bills are that they are spending significant money on their Safeties, something most of the NFL teams don't do.

 

I'd argue our safety duo is the biggest piece to our defense. We are not spending big money on Rosseau. He is under a rookie contract. We are only now spending big money on Oliver because of the 5th year option. But that will obviously be short term. Miller, White, Milano, yes of course we are spending big money on them. As we should. Unfortunately, injuries derailed the season for two of them. White might not ever regain old form which may be unfortunate. Bills have a potential out after this season on Tre White. 

 

The top 10 QB is supposed to make all of the offensive pieces around him better. I don't see the need to pay more than 4 other guys on offense big money. 

[In Summary]

19 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The offense was #2 overall, how many more strides does Dorsey have to take lol

Fair point! Still hoping for a better OL with less total reliance on Josh improvisation and greater usage of Knox/Brown. Call me selfish. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Or the less popular "Oliver extension."

 

Just threw up a little in my mouth

 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

We have paid the following folks on Offense:

* Diggs

* Dawkins

* Knox

*. Morse 

* ALLEN

 

Whereas on Defense:

* Von Miller

* Tre White 

* Poyer 

* Hyde 

* Milano

* Rosseau

* Ed Oliver 

* Jones

 

The problem for the Bills are that they are spending significant money on their Safeties, something most of the NFL teams don't do.

 

FIFY

Rousseau and Oliver are 1st round picks who have not yet been "paid", they're on fixed rookie contracts.  I guess that's an understandable mistake to make, given that Oliver is currently the Bills 6th biggest cap hit, but how could you miss listing Josh *****in' Allen as one of the folks on offense we've paid?

 

I'm curious about the source of the information about what the Bills spent on their safeties relative to the rest of the league.

 

Per Spotrac, the Bills are spending 1.67% of their cap on safeties this season, spent 1.45% of the their cap in 2022.  That doesn't seem like a lot.

 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

The top 10 QB is supposed to make all of the offensive pieces around him better. I don't see the need to pay more than 4 other guys on offense big money. 

 

Ugh, you may be channeling Beane's Carolina roots, as that was the path they took.

 

Here is cap allocation for offense by team in 2022.  Click to make it bigger.  We can see that a number of teams that felt they could contend allocated more cap to offensive spending than we did, including SB winners KC, the Cowboys, the Vikings, the Bucs (they thought they were in it), the Packers, and the Bengals.  The 49ers and Eagles spent less. 

 

IMO, if a team has a top 10 QB and wants to win, they still need to be mindful it's a team game; he needs protection, and more than one quality weapon.

 

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Just threw up a little in my mouth

 

 

Swallow it back down. You'll feel better after. 

[Dopey]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Swallow it back down. You'll feel better after. 

As many times as I tell her this, she doesn’t believe me. 

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

We have paid the following folks on Offense:

* Diggs

* Dawkins

* Knox

*. Morse 

 

Whereas on Defense:

* Von Miller

* Tre White 

* Poyer 

* Hyde 

* Milano

* Rosseau

* Ed Oliver 

* Jones

 

The problem for the Bills are that they are spending significant money on their Safeties, something most of the NFL teams don't do.

How does Josh not make your list of paid on offense!?!? He’s only the most important piece on offense. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Ugh, you may be channeling Beane's Carolina roots, as that was the path they took.

 

Here is cap allocation for offense by team in 2022.  Click to make it bigger.  We can see that a number of teams that felt they could contend allocated more cap to offensive spending than we did, including SB winners KC, the Cowboys, the Vikings, the Bucs (they thought they were in it), the Packers, and the Bengals.  The 49ers and Eagles spent less. 

 

IMO, if a team has a top 10 QB and wants to win, they still need to be mindful it's a team game; he needs protection, and more than one quality weapon.

 

Isn’t the majority of the difference between the bills and chiefs simply the difference in the cap hit between Mahomes and Allen?

 

that is to say the bills will be spending roughly the same amount of caps space on offense as the Chiefs are once Allen’s contract really starts to increase in 2024.

 

 

[Billl]

4 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Isn’t the majority of the difference between the bills and chiefs simply the difference in the cap hit between Mahomes and Allen?

 

that is to say the bills will be spending roughly the same amount of caps space on offense as the Chiefs are once Allen’s contract really starts to increase in 2024.

 

 

That’s exactly what it is, especially when you factor in the nearly $20 million they kicked down the road via the restructure they just did.  There’s a million recipes for prolonged success in the NFL, but they all revolve around finding an elite QB and then drafting well to keep him surrounded with talent.

[Chaos]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

That’s exactly what it is, especially when you factor in the nearly $20 million they kicked down the road via the restructure they just did.  There’s a million recipes for prolonged success in the NFL, but they all revolve around finding an elite QB and then drafting well to keep him surrounded with talent.

Superior coaching is an important part of the recipe.  Rex Ryan isn't winning super bowls with Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs.